benelli montefeltro Posted January 21, 2010 Report Share Posted January 21, 2010 (edited) Freedom of speech and hot blooded debate at it's best. Keep going chaps, and keep it clean, there are still some not too clearly answered questions here. i answered all questions asked of me jim. it is mc who done the dodging. particularly when asked does he wound with his 6s??? even at closer ranges. and al whatsis face was mouthing about the 8s, again thats up to me if i use them. i killed em clean. i know that. my conciencse is clear. at times the way im being attacked you would think i was firing 14g out of a .410 at em at 60 yards! Edited January 21, 2010 by benelli montefeltro Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benelli montefeltro Posted January 21, 2010 Report Share Posted January 21, 2010 Where i go clay shooting i buy English sporter 28g 7.5's. Want to know why? Because they are £4.00 a box thats why. But if you wing a clay then its not really a problem is it. This hole thread is about CHEAP cartridges. If you are happy to mess around with cheap **** then thats fine. you must be reading a different thread then because i thought it was about one cartridges capabilities against another??? and whoever said i bought them because they were cheap??? again another assumption. i shoot the very best 28g clever mirage cartridges very often, and i would say there is not a hell of a price difference between them and budget"game"shells. and out of interest do you buy the dearest 32g pigeon shells you can find??? because by your logic the pricier the better isnt that right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fortune82 Posted January 21, 2010 Report Share Posted January 21, 2010 No they won't, as I have already stated the facts they carry less energy and therefore will NOT penetrate as far. They will only penetrate deeper is they are delivered with the same energy as the no.6 which is not possible as they both leave the barrel at similar velocity and the smaller shot dissipates its energy quicker. Wrong. What penetrates further a .177 air rifle or a .22? .22 does maintain more energy over a distance but the .177 goes in deeper. Kinetic energy and penetration depth are 2 different things. As you have already said you have never patterned a gun or done any testing. Pattern your gun with a 6 shot then with 7.5 and see which is denser. Then fire both a clay and see which goes deeper. Even better make some ballistic jelly there are recipies on the internet. I think you will be surprised. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chunkyed Posted January 21, 2010 Report Share Posted January 21, 2010 you must be reading a different thread then because i thought it was about one cartridges capabilities against another??? and whoever said i bought them because they were cheap??? again another assumption. i shoot the very best 28g clever mirage cartridges very often, and i would say there is not a hell of a price difference between them and budget"game"shells. and out of interest do you buy the dearest 32g pigeon shells you can find??? because by your logic the pricier the better isnt that right? Oh im sorry i thought i read 28g cheapies? And no for a matter of fact i use Eley or fiocchi or express. Not the most expensive and not the cheapest but i would rather use then compaired to 28g 7.5's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docholiday Posted January 21, 2010 Report Share Posted January 21, 2010 I see you have still avoided giving MC proof of your AA ability, surley thats a fair request and easily answered....if true? doc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted January 21, 2010 Report Share Posted January 21, 2010 Is it easy to shoot enough registered shoots if you're in ireland? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evil Elvis Posted January 21, 2010 Report Share Posted January 21, 2010 Wrong. What penetrates further a .177 air rifle or a .22? .22 does maintain more energy over a distance but the .177 goes in deeper. Kinetic energy and penetration depth are 2 different things. As you have already said you have never patterned a gun or done any testing. What the hell has airguns (yawn) got to do with the penetration of shotgun pellets?? ARE YOUR AIRGUN PELLETS PROPELLED BY GUNPOWDER? :unsure: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spaniel Posted January 21, 2010 Report Share Posted January 21, 2010 My Mrs was going on about penetration depth the other night...I never knew she was getting technical about shooting :unsure: I have seen Pigeons brought down dead with 7.5 cartridges but personally i think these are for use on the clays and i use 6s 32g for the woodies. Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunkield Posted January 21, 2010 Report Share Posted January 21, 2010 Wrong. What penetrates further a .177 air rifle or a .22? .22 does maintain more energy over a distance but the .177 goes in deeper. Kinetic energy and penetration depth are 2 different things. Based on your theory then, why use something as 'big' as 7.5's why not use 9.5s? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evil Elvis Posted January 21, 2010 Report Share Posted January 21, 2010 i wont dignify any of the above responses with a direct reply Thats because there are no research based arguements that you can use to justify using inadequate carts :unsure: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evil Elvis Posted January 21, 2010 Report Share Posted January 21, 2010 Does it matter what they are propelled with? Have you understood what I have said? 2 air rifle pellets going at the same velocity 1 is a .177 one a .22, .177 will penetrate deeper same as 2 shotgun pellets going at same velocity one 7.5 one a 6. 7.5 will penetrate deeper therefore hitting vital organs but with less energy. No sherlock but, we are comparing different sized carts with differrent propellent levels....not a toy gun that farts!! :unsure: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benelli montefeltro Posted January 21, 2010 Report Share Posted January 21, 2010 my research is done in the field, it beats any bleedin eley diary or watever it is anyway. i tend to believe what i see with my own eyes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted January 21, 2010 Report Share Posted January 21, 2010 Based on your theory then, why use something as 'big' as 7.5's why not use 9.5s? he's already mentioned using 8's :unsure: I thought looking at your old posts Benelli that the research wasn't done by you but by your Dad :unsure: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docholiday Posted January 21, 2010 Report Share Posted January 21, 2010 I supose another way of finding the answer is to say you are a pigeon just been given the death sentence and you can choose which cartridge will be used at 30 to 40 yds. be honest which one are you going to choose ? doc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted January 21, 2010 Report Share Posted January 21, 2010 (edited) its a hard one to call Doc, personally as much depends on the person behind the gun at that range Edited January 21, 2010 by al4x Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted January 21, 2010 Report Share Posted January 21, 2010 you've worded it wrong there cushat you need to add an A and an E in there and rearrange a bit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC Posted January 21, 2010 Report Share Posted January 21, 2010 Wrong. What penetrates further a .177 air rifle or a .22? .22 does maintain more energy over a distance but the .177 goes in deeper. Kinetic energy and penetration depth are 2 different things. As you have already said you have never patterned a gun or done any testing. Pattern your gun with a 6 shot then with 7.5 and see which is denser. Then fire both a clay and see which goes deeper. Even better make some ballistic jelly there are recipies on the internet. I think you will be surprised. And pray tell what will patterning a gun tell me other than one cartridge has more shot in it than the other which I knew before even getting them out of a box. Come on then as you seem to know all the answers how will I know which set of pellets has hit the hardest by firing them at a cardboard or steel pattern plate? If I was to pattern a 6 and a 9 then the 9 is quite obviously going to have a denser pattern but the pellets will have a lots less STRIKING energy which is what counts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC Posted January 21, 2010 Report Share Posted January 21, 2010 i answered all questions asked of me jim. it is mc who done the dodging. particularly when asked does he wound with his 6s??? even at closer ranges. and al whatsis face was mouthing about the 8s, again thats up to me if i use them. i killed em clean. i know that. my conciencse is clear. at times the way im being attacked you would think i was firing 14g out of a .410 at em at 60 yards! Of course I wound birds with 6's anyone who doesn't either doesn't shoot or is a liar. However by setting out from the start with an appropriate cartridge of decent shot size and weight I am doing as much as I can to prevent it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC Posted January 21, 2010 Report Share Posted January 21, 2010 my research is done in the field, it beats any bleedin eley diary or watever it is anyway. i tend to believe what i see with my own eyes So you freely admit to ignore facts when placed in front of you then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benelli montefeltro Posted January 21, 2010 Report Share Posted January 21, 2010 So you freely admit to ignore facts when placed in front of you then? and what facts is that then? the fact about the pigeons splatting into the ground from 40 plus yards with my trusty 28g 7.5s? yes you are right that is a fact. they are in the freezer now, might leave a couple out for my tea tomorrow night. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Floating Chamber Posted January 21, 2010 Report Share Posted January 21, 2010 (edited) They're probably 7s really. What's on the label ain't necessarily what's inside them, believe me! One British manufacturer's 7.5 (2.3mm) shot shells are quoted as 2.4mm anyway, and this is English 7. Some clay shells have been opened and found to have contained game shot. These shells called 'overruns' or 'misprints' are often sold off cheaply and well below MRP. Yes, you'll get good kills with these. Edited January 21, 2010 by Floating Chamber Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted January 21, 2010 Report Share Posted January 21, 2010 And pray tell what will patterning a gun tell me other than one cartridge has more shot in it than the other which I knew before even getting them out of a box. Come on then as you seem to know all the answers how will I know which set of pellets has hit the hardest by firing them at a cardboard or steel pattern plate? If I was to pattern a 6 and a 9 then the 9 is quite obviously going to have a denser pattern but the pellets will have a lots less STRIKING energy which is what counts. Sorry MC, not quite right. Yes, I agree that sufficient energy is necessary. However, there is an old saying from way back that remains just as valid today:"Pattern kills". This is true because with the ranges of pellet sizes in common use the pattern will fail before the energy. Shooting beyond that range increases the chance of wounding. As you have never patterned a gun, you can have no idea whether or not the gun/cartridge comination is such that it conforms to the nominal choke figure. Give it a try, mate, if nothing else it will boost your confidence when you discover they're good or give youb the opportuniyy to sort it if they're not. Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC Posted January 21, 2010 Report Share Posted January 21, 2010 You are now bringing in another factor of chokes, which I do not believe in. I shoot 1/4 choke in all my guns and firmly believe that if you have the correct cartridge in the gun and I do my bit the bird is dead. Yes occasionally I don't do my bit and you get a winger, that unfortunately is shooting. I do not see the advantage of patterning a gun. When I start missing far more than I hit then I may start to worry about bad patterns etc but as yet have never seen the need. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
utectok Posted January 21, 2010 Report Share Posted January 21, 2010 Move up to 36g of 6's and you will enjoy a ratio of 1:2.....simples Fair point following my logic...... I do shoot 34gm 5s roost shooting or I just keep one in the top barrel for the longer birds. But I guess I still got to point it in the right direction!! I'll need some of those 28gm cheapies to practice I guess! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted January 21, 2010 Report Share Posted January 21, 2010 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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