Highlander Posted October 17, 2005 Report Share Posted October 17, 2005 I think I may have said something like this before but it still holds up…wherever you shoot you should have written permission AND know who, if anyone else, shoots the land. That way if you do meet up with others when you’re out you have a good chance of being on the right foot. Discuss the scenario with the landowner/farmer BEFORE you shoot the land and agree a strategy for different situations. Not a legal requirement I know but a polite and courteous one that can save a lot of agro in the long run. That said and if you’re sure you had shots put over your heads and I mean sure sure; a shot fired doesn’t necessarily mean it was in your direction, although I think you might know if it was as a bullet whizzing around your ears does have a fairly chilling’ effect then you should have reported it to the police a.s.a.p. Anyone in charge of a rifle should know better that to a) shoot at or even close to anyone else and never, ever at such an angle as to not know where the bullet might end up. If they don’t they have no business being allowed a FAC. If it was a gamekeeper that's bad but how do you know...could've been anyone. Let the police find out. If it wasn't keeper he'll be able to clear himself when asked by police, alibi, gun tests etc. If you're still on speaking terms with the estate keeper or any of your other neighbours after this I'd strongly recomend you talk to them all about who shoots the land and where/when you can go etc. Work with each other NOT against. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergeant Posted October 17, 2005 Report Share Posted October 17, 2005 Not exactly related but a hypothetical situation. If he had definately been fired upon and had retured fire "in self defence" how would that stand? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Highlander Posted October 17, 2005 Report Share Posted October 17, 2005 Sergeant...BAD BAD news...don't even go there! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pike Posted October 17, 2005 Report Share Posted October 17, 2005 You were on land that you were comletely entitled to be on and some person unknown fired at you - for heavens sake phone the police and let them sort it out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plinker Posted October 18, 2005 Report Share Posted October 18, 2005 B H where abouts did this happen? plinker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peck Posted October 19, 2005 Report Share Posted October 19, 2005 Bountyhunter, you say that it was a rifle not a pneumatic, how do you know it was a rifle.? how do you know they were firing over your heads.? how do you know it was the gamekeeper.? It could have been a shotgun, they could have been shooting anywhere, it may not have been the gamekeeper. I am not saying that they did not deliberatly threaten you but how do you know they actually fired over your heads with a high power rifle. Allow me to tell you a story, i once belonged to a gun club, it had an indoor range that was only cleared for small bore shooting, .22 with a muzzle velocity of less that 1500 fps, we were carrying out some maintainance work on the butts when someone spotted a bloody great hole in the 3/4 inch steel plate that was used as a bullet stop, there was only one thing that could have done that, and that was a high velocity bullet, we reported this to the ranges owners who were the local council thinking that we had done the right thing, a few weeks later the council got in touch with our secretary and informed us that we could no longer use that range stating that the range was being used for illegal activities. ( it was about the same time as Ryan had done his dastardly deed, so guns were in the news and we got some of the backlash ). What i am trying to say is make certain of your facts, do not involve anyone else unless you have to, go and see the gamekeeper yourself, tell him exactly what happened, ask if it was him.? if it was him inform him that you had full permision to be shooting where you were, ( as someone else said make sure you get written permission from the land owner or whoever has the shooting rites . This is the law not just courtisity for shooting at night). If it was the gamekeeper tell him exactly what you will do if he does the same thing again. ( and that should be immediatly tell the police ) If you go straight to the landowner or whoever has the shooting rites they may say that you cannot go shooting again as they do not want any trouble, they may even be getting a free day or two's shooting from the very gamekeeper that you are complaining about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sutty Posted October 19, 2005 Report Share Posted October 19, 2005 Bounty hunter. Dont hang about mate, inform the local police ,give them the facts and let them sort it out. You were carrying on in a perfectly legal manner on your own permission. Whoever it was dosn't deserve to have a FAC, gamekeeper or not. The next person may not be as lucky as you. Regards Sutty B) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davhope Posted October 20, 2005 Report Share Posted October 20, 2005 Anyone who has been on the reciving end of rifle fire will tell you, You know when a round has been fired at or over you, Hopefully you only hear it impact close by before you even hear the shot. I dont belive you could ever mistake it for a pneumatic. If you ever work on the butts on a range it a similar sort of experience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergeant Posted October 20, 2005 Report Share Posted October 20, 2005 Exactly right, Davhope, I have been in the buts before, and have to say it is slightly scary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tenbears10 Posted October 20, 2005 Report Share Posted October 20, 2005 Peck. A shot gun and a rifle make a completely different noise. Your comment is like asking someone sitting in their front room if a lorry or a fiesta just drove past, it is easy to tell the difference. As for not saying anything incase you get into trouble, bounty hunter has done nothing wrong and should report this incident in case someone gets hurt in the future. What if the round had ricocheted? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozo Posted October 21, 2005 Report Share Posted October 21, 2005 On the point of being sure wether or not it was fired over your head, at a military target range if your not shooting you put up the targets, this means bullets are flyin a few meters over your head. your hear an almighty crack as they pass over you because they are breaking the sound barrier. I dont no if this also applies to the type of rifle concerned, but worth a thought. Ozo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peck Posted October 21, 2005 Report Share Posted October 21, 2005 The only reason bullets make a crack when they come over the butts and into the backstop is because they are passing through the target, not because they are going supersonic. If it was the supersonic crack you were hearing it would be fainter the further away from the butts the shot came from. The bullet will be going supersonic as soon as it has left the barrel and thats long before it reaches the butts. You get exactly the same crack whether they are being shot from 100 200 or 300 yards away. I have also worked in the butts and know what its like and as for someons saying its slightly scary!!. If you care to read Bounty Hunters original post you will read that at the moment he does not have a firearm cert so that would say to me he was not that experienced in the ways of a full bore rifle, now if he said that he had shot a full bore rifle for years i would be inclined to believe him when he said what he did about being shot over with a rifle. Bounythunter would you care to comment further about what happened and exactly what experience you have with a full bore rifle and whether you could tell the difference between the sounds of a shotgun and rifle at night. Let me make it quite clear, i do not disbelieve what BountyHunter is saying, but everything in this world is not as black and white as it seams. As for telling the difference between a lorry and a Ferrari, go and ask an African bushman if he can tell you which is the lorry and which is the Ferrari. ( if you have very little experience of hearing either how will you know ). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemini Posted October 21, 2005 Report Share Posted October 21, 2005 The only reason bullets make a crack when they come over the butts and into the backstop is because they are passing through the target, not because they are going supersonic. If it was the supersonic crack you were hearing it would be fainter the further away from the butts the shot came from. The sound of the bullet going though the target has nothing whatsoever to do with the crack that you hear as the bullet passes over you. This is the sound of the bullet as it is going faster than sound. This can be proven by the fact that you can still hear this sound even if the target is missed completely. You will hear this sound all the way along the path of the bullet as long as it is going supersonic, but only as it travels overhead of anyone it passes. At 600yds a .308 bullet will still be going faster than the speed of sound, so you will still hear the sonic crack as it passes overhead, then a second or so later you will hear the “Boom” of the rifle. G.M. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
converse320 Posted October 21, 2005 Report Share Posted October 21, 2005 I don't think it matters what the weapon was. All that matters was whether it was fired in their direction in response to the light. Bounty Hunter seems pretty confident that's the case, so.... GO TO THE POLICE and let them pick the bones out of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will Beasley Posted October 21, 2005 Report Share Posted October 21, 2005 The only reason bullets make a crack when they come over the butts and into the backstop is because they are passing through the target, not because they are going supersonic. If it was the supersonic crack you were hearing it would be fainter the further away from the butts the shot came from. The bullet will be going supersonic as soon as it has left the barrel and thats long before it reaches the butts. You get exactly the same crack whether they are being shot from 100 200 or 300 yards away. I'm with Gemini on this one. What you've written is WRONG and misleading. If you care to read Bounty Hunters original post you will read that at the moment he does not have a firearm cert so that would say to me he was not that experienced in the ways of a full bore rifle, No, no.....you've just convinced me that its you who's not familiar in the ways of a full bore rifle. Perhaps you should take a ganders at http://www.firearmsid.com/Feature%20Articl...dofbullets2.htmThis website. so that next time you're better informed on the subject. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deeksofdoom Posted October 21, 2005 Report Share Posted October 21, 2005 The only reason bullets make a crack when they come over the butts and into the backstop is because they are passing through the target, not because they are going supersonic. If it was the supersonic crack you were hearing it would be fainter the further away from the butts the shot came from. The bullet will be going supersonic as soon as it has left the barrel and thats long before it reaches the butts. You get exactly the same crack whether they are being shot from 100 200 or 300 yards away. I have also worked in the butts and know what its like and as for someons saying its slightly scary!!. If you care to read Bounty Hunters original post you will read that at the moment he does not have a firearm cert so that would say to me he was not that experienced in the ways of a full bore rifle, now if he said that he had shot a full bore rifle for years i would be inclined to believe him when he said what he did about being shot over with a rifle. Bounythunter would you care to comment further about what happened and exactly what experience you have with a full bore rifle and whether you could tell the difference between the sounds of a shotgun and rifle at night. Let me make it quite clear, i do not disbelieve what BountyHunter is saying, but everything in this world is not as black and white as it seams. As for telling the difference between a lorry and a Ferrari, go and ask an African bushman if he can tell you which is the lorry and which is the Ferrari. ( if you have very little experience of hearing either how will you know ). The only reason bullets make a crack when they come over the butts and into the backstop is because they are passing through the target, not because they are going supersonic. Rubbish! The bullet will be going supersonic as soon as it has left the barrel and thats long before it reaches the butts. You get exactly the same crack whether they are being shot from 100 200 or 300 yards away. You obviously know nothing about sonic boom! I have also worked in the butts and know what its like and as for someons saying its slightly scary!!. You've never been in a butts in your life! You'll never make it in forensics mate, stick with the day job! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob G Posted October 21, 2005 Report Share Posted October 21, 2005 At the end of the day it doesn't matter if it was a full bore,a shot gun or a air rifle.It was a GUN the authorities need to be notified of this before somone gets shot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peck Posted October 21, 2005 Report Share Posted October 21, 2005 OK, OK i was wrong about the bullet hitting the target and making the crack. Where's the humble pie. :*) :*) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cranfield Posted October 22, 2005 Report Share Posted October 22, 2005 BountyHunter, how about an update ? Its been 7 days and you have received a load of (conflicting) advice, I can't be the only one who is interested in "what happened next". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferret Master Posted October 24, 2005 Report Share Posted October 24, 2005 Hi, BountyHunter, I agree with Cranfield How about an update! Lots of people are intrested in the outcome. FM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markbivvy Posted October 24, 2005 Report Share Posted October 24, 2005 This is the law not just courtisity for shooting at night). can anyone point to to the place that says this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davhope Posted October 24, 2005 Report Share Posted October 24, 2005 I have been as guilty as anyone for getting sidetracked on the issues on this post, Bountyhunter you must report this to the police and let them sort it out. The police will have a list of all firearms cert holders who have permission for that particular piece of land. I suspect that someone will claim to have been unaware of your presence. Either way everyone gets a timely reminder of the importance of checking your backstop. If no one with permission was out that night at least the gamekeeper will be aware of a problem. We all seem to be forgeting the implications of even pointing a loaded weapon at someone, be it shotgun, rifle, or airifle. Hope this is helpful. David. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plinker Posted October 25, 2005 Report Share Posted October 25, 2005 no reply from bounty hunter, do you think he has been shot ? plinker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorfolkBoy Posted October 25, 2005 Report Share Posted October 25, 2005 no reply from bounty hunter, do you think he has been shot ? plinker Or just mssing in action? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BountyHunter Posted October 26, 2005 Author Report Share Posted October 26, 2005 Hello, nope still here. I haven't posted here 'cos there isn't really anything to tell. I spoke to the landowner who told me that they often ambush foxes in the bottom wood and shoot 'em with a rifle. I spoke to the gamekeeper, who seems to be a stirling fellow and is quite happy with me being around, and all he said was to let him know if I was going down there lamping. We have exchanged contact details so that I can let him know if I am shooting with the proper guns (if I get the licence) and that is about it. As for the shot that was fired, Tony (the landowner) wasn't worried at all and I trust him totally, he is a well respected and upstanding member of the community. Nobody wants to upset him (his shoots are popular and well known) so if he is convinced that the shooter was after foxes it is good enough for me. I didn't point the finger or anything and as it turns out I have a new ally, who knows even friend. Thanks for all the advice and stuff, it is quite hard being a newbie into the shooting comunity proper. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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