MJN Posted April 14, 2010 Report Share Posted April 14, 2010 http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/essex/8619217.stm Was it Uncovered ? open ?,a semi auto. I wish we had more info. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
100milesaway Posted April 14, 2010 Report Share Posted April 14, 2010 Iv'e regularly seen people carring guns not in a gunslip, from their carboot across a main road to a shooting ground in Derbyshire and often wondered if Mr Plod has ever visited them.Another regular sight was a bloke carrying a gun on his shoulder, on a foot bridge over the M6 in staffordshire, sometimes familiarity breeds contempt and stupidity. from Auntie. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozzy Fudd Posted April 14, 2010 Report Share Posted April 14, 2010 i didnt think you had to keep it covered in a public place, just unloaded then again we dont know the full story, for all we know he could have been patrolling around the place looking for trouble... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inthedark Posted April 14, 2010 Report Share Posted April 14, 2010 Difficult one to prove, as its an offence of specific intent. Bet a tenner with anyone on the forum (to go to the GOSH) that he doesn't get charged with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frenchieboy Posted April 14, 2010 Report Share Posted April 14, 2010 The news paper report is a bit vague at the moment, I would like to know more before forming any judgement. I will say however that I was under the impression that any firearm or shotgun had to be covered in an appraoved slip when in any public place. I was in fact reminded about this as there is an old disused road that runs straight through the middle of one of my permissions. Whilst it is disused it is still classed as a public highway so I carry a rolled up rifle slip in my pocket or rucksack whenever I am on this permission for when I have to cross the road to the other half of the permission. I prefer to work on the "better safe than sorry" principle as it would only take one "anti" (And there are a few that live close to this permission) to see me with one of my rifles uncovered on a public highway to cost me my certificate! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pavman Posted April 14, 2010 Report Share Posted April 14, 2010 I have a letter from BASC stating its not an offence to have a firearm on view in a puplic place as long as its safe (and one would assume not being pointed with malace) I got it as i have to go on village roads round the farm at times on the Quad and have the Rifle on a gun rack so thay can be seen, i keep the letter with me just in case plod or an Anti have something to say about it at any time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mungler Posted April 14, 2010 Report Share Posted April 14, 2010 (edited) Strange. It depends if the bloke was wandering up and down the High Street or round the lanes surrounding a lawful permission. On our shoot days there are regularly people wandering around the lanes either in between drives or heading back to the farm house with broken un loaded guns slung over their shoulders. Can anyone confirm if this is an offence? EDIT: Just seen Pavan's post - ta very much. Edited April 14, 2010 by Mungler Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted April 14, 2010 Report Share Posted April 14, 2010 we do the same Mungler, Pavman has your answer. In this story though there is no mention that its a legal firearm and that he wasn't threatening anyone! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hurstpol Posted April 14, 2010 Report Share Posted April 14, 2010 there is no doubt about it carrying your shotgun in the street is a big NO NO ,you can not carry a shotgun in a public place (discounting obvious public places like clay grounds etc) unless it is covered i:e in a gun slip. Frank Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mollydog Posted April 14, 2010 Report Share Posted April 14, 2010 you are alowed to cross a road with a unloaded shot gun or rifle that is not covered so long as you have good reason ie going from one field too another Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
night owl Posted April 14, 2010 Report Share Posted April 14, 2010 ha ha . i have a public licence which gives me permision to have a loaded gun in a public place but only running from 1 st october till the end of feb with in that time i can shoot in a public place with a shot gun only not with a rifle or air gun and can carry the gun as i see fit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Imperfection Posted April 14, 2010 Report Share Posted April 14, 2010 I've said this before,but going back only 25years it was common to see people walking through a nearby village with a broken shotgun over one shoulder and rabbits/pheasants etc off the other.However,times have changed and the public now view guns with fear and i wouldnt walk around with one uncovered in the street. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hurstpol Posted April 14, 2010 Report Share Posted April 14, 2010 I've said this before,but going back only 25years it was common to see people walking through a nearby village with a broken shotgun over one shoulder and rabbits/pheasants etc off the other.However,times have changed and the public now view guns with fear and i wouldnt walk around with one uncovered in the street. I agree, the level of paranoia is extreme at the moment and unfortunately we have to leave behind the good old days, we have to look after number 1 and to be extremely careful where firearms are concerned, we all have seen the story of the crop circle trespassers making a complaint about a man enjoying his sport lawfully on his permission and being arrested, so to take a chance in public sadly we have to think twice, but that is the brave new world we live in Frank Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mungler Posted April 14, 2010 Report Share Posted April 14, 2010 I have a letter from BASC stating its not an offence to have a firearm on view in a puplic place as long as its safe (and one would assume not being pointed with malace) I got it as i have to go on village roads round the farm at times on the Quad and have the Rifle on a gun rack so thay can be seen, i keep the letter with me just in case plod or an Anti have something to say about it at any time. there is no doubt about it carrying your shotgun in the street is a big NO NO ,you can not carry a shotgun in a public place (discounting obvious public places like clay grounds etc) unless it is covered i:e in a gun slip. Frank Right then, so what is *the law* on this? Do we all need to get BASC letters or should BASC keep sending information leaflets to rural plod? Is BASC right and plod wrong or vice versa? I say again, we walk down relatively quiet country roads (but nonetheless public country roads) with unloaded and broken shotguns over our shoulders and under our arms. Is an offence being committed? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mossy835 Posted April 14, 2010 Report Share Posted April 14, 2010 2 years ago a man where i live, was carrying a shotgun from one field to another, with out it being covered up and got pulled for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hurstpol Posted April 14, 2010 Report Share Posted April 14, 2010 Right then, so what is *the law* on this? Do we all need to get BASC letters or should BASC keep sending information leaflets to rural plod? Is BASC right and plod wrong or vice versa? I say again, we walk down relatively quiet country roads (but nonetheless public country roads) with unloaded and broken shotguns over our shoulders and under our arms. Is an offence being committed? Well sec 19 firearms act 1968 states this is a direct cut from the act 19. Carrying firearm in a public place.A person commits an offence if, without lawful authority or reasonable excuse (the proof whereof lies on him) he has with him in a public place [F1 (a)a loaded shot gun, (b)an air weapon (whether loaded or not), ©any other firearm (whether loaded or not) together with ammunition suitable for use in that firearm, or (d)an imitation firearm.] the above means that if you have in your possesion a any of the above you are guilty of the offence, there is a proviso which is (without lawfull authority or reasonable excuse) but it is up to you to prove the authority or reasonable excuse, not the police. so I take from that if I am not shotting on private land the gun goes in my slip till I am, when out shooting game I allways have my slip with me and when walking from one peg to another the gun goes in it. that is the law as above but remember it is up to you to prove your case the police dont have to prove anything. right I know all about the buts, like it is only common sense I was just crossing the road from one field to another etc, but is it worth the risk, it is your personal choice and you dont have to justify that to me or anyone else, but I know what I do. Frank Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guest1957 Posted April 14, 2010 Report Share Posted April 14, 2010 (edited) What I don't understand is how the presence of a slip affects the nature of possession. The only thing I can think of is that they take the view that if people can't see a gun then it doesn't cause fear or distress as detailed in one of the offences. However with relation to section 19, a slip can't change anything apart from the fact the gun is no longer clearly visible. Of course it makes sense to slip a gun when off the peg as then it is clearly safe. Edited April 14, 2010 by guest1957 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J@mes Posted April 14, 2010 Report Share Posted April 14, 2010 Well sec 19 firearms act 1968 states this is a direct cut from the act 19. Carrying firearm in a public place. A person commits an offence if, without lawful authority or reasonable excuse (the proof whereof lies on him) he has with him in a public place [F1 (a)a loaded shot gun, (b)an air weapon (whether loaded or not), ©any other firearm (whether loaded or not) together with ammunition suitable for use in that firearm, or (d)an imitation firearm.] So a broken, unloaded shotgun would be considered legal then? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J@mes Posted April 14, 2010 Report Share Posted April 14, 2010 Of course it makes sense to slip a gun when off the peg as then it is clearly safe. Really? Not as "clearly safe" as one that is broken though. One in a slip could still be loaded and be dropped, making it go off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlieT Posted April 14, 2010 Report Share Posted April 14, 2010 I most definitely does not have to be in a slip. What the act says is that " without lawful authority or reasonable excuse" you can't be in possession of a gun in a public place. However being in possession of a SGC and going about one's lawful business of shooting or transporting it is lawful authority with reasonable excuse, therefore an offence has not been committed. Remember your car is a public place for the purpose of the act as much as a public road There is no mention of slips or cases in the act. As others have said we regularly walk the lanes round here with a gun and take them into the pub un slipped for lunch and I can assure you no offence is being committed. However would I walk round the nearest town with an un slipped shotgun over my arm........I think not. Common sense dictates one should cover it with something even if it's a newspaper. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mungler Posted April 14, 2010 Report Share Posted April 14, 2010 I am actually quite interested in this. I might pull the cases when I get into work tomorrow. However, have a look here: http://www.cps.gov.uk/legal/s_to_u/sentenc...9_firearms_act/ Have a look at the case summaries and the sentancing guidelines. Also note the "low" factors or factors in mitigation NB: mitigation is not a defence but more of the excuse and plea for a light punishment. •Low •firearm used for lawful purpose but not amounting to a defence, •not produced, •no intention to use. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brad93 Posted April 14, 2010 Report Share Posted April 14, 2010 As I understood it, a gun does not have to be in a slip etc, but should be unloaded if you are travelling between two areas of land in which you have permission to shoot on. I think this bloke was just walking around with the gun for no apparent reason Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mungler Posted April 14, 2010 Report Share Posted April 14, 2010 Problem is that the Act mentions firearm loaded or not and in possession of ammo. As CharlieT says, there is no mention of it being "slipped". The act does not specify the firearm as being slipped as being a defence. You either have it with you in a public place or you don't. The wording is ambiguous and how the Courts deal with these cases will depend almost entirely on the case law, and no doubt what amounts to a "reasonable excuse". Hmmm interesting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guest1957 Posted April 14, 2010 Report Share Posted April 14, 2010 Really? Not as "clearly safe" as one that is broken though. One in a slip could still be loaded and be dropped, making it go off. Fair point, what I was getting at is that people around, particularly those not familiar with guns might perceive they are safer if a gun is away rather than out as broken gun can quickly become a closed gun. I think the police and the CPS would argue that making a gun visable is likely to cause distress, and as such do you for intent to cause fear section 16A Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gully Posted April 14, 2010 Report Share Posted April 14, 2010 Aggravating & Mitigating Factors * High o planned illegal use, o brandishing in a public place Can someone define "brandishing"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.