20b vs 12b and 28" vs 30"

[twitchynik]

Am close to purchasing first shotgun and thought I had it pegged that I'll go down the 12b 30" route. However, was talking with an experienced shooting mate the other day and their view was that a 20b, aside extra cart cost, wasn't that much, if at all, different to a 12b. Am taking lessons and will query with the instructor but thought I'd ask the question on here - not least as a nice little 687 20b 28" is on the classifieds and the thought is fresh in my mind...!

 

The main reason I'm thinking of the 20b is weight and balance. I'm a slightly built lad and I'm wondering if the slightly smaller 20b would be of any benefit in that area over a 12b. And as this will mainly be used for clays with occasional game use I'm also wondering if a 28" barrel over 30" is actually that much of a difference? Have been using a game 686 and quite like the balance of it over say a Miroku sporter but know that a game gun won't feel that good after 100+ carts!

 

Or should I just man up and go 12b 30"?! :blink:

[kyska]

I can't answer you questions but take into account if you're shooting game with a 20, you'll have to absorb more recoil than a 12.

 

I use 20 for everything and love it, its starting to convert my fellow 12b shooting buddies....

 

Am close to purchasing first shotgun and thought I had it pegged that I'll go down the 12b 30" route. However, was talking with an experienced shooting mate the other day and their view was that a 20b, aside extra cart cost, wasn't that much, if at all, different to a 12b. Am taking lessons and will query with the instructor but thought I'd ask the question on here - not least as a nice little 687 20b 28" is on the classifieds and the thought is fresh in my mind...!

 

The main reason I'm thinking of the 20b is weight and balance. I'm a slightly built lad and I'm wondering if the slightly smaller 20b would be of any benefit in that area over a 12b. And as this will mainly be used for clays with occasional game use I'm also wondering if a 28" barrel over 30" is actually that much of a difference? Have been using a game 686 and quite like the balance of it over say a Miroku sporter but know that a game gun won't feel that good after 100+ carts!

 

Or should I just man up and go 12b 30"?! :blink:

[yickdaz]

started with a 410 24 years ago then 20b.. then 12b..for last 18 years but can tell you i have shot with me old fella over decoys maybe couple of thousand times and he sometimes uses a 20b and i will kill nothing further or higher with my 12b.no difference in distance just the different weight handling and recoil; thats why a 12b is more common with clay and game shooters for that reason they tend to be steadier when swinging on to and in front of a target.

Edited August 31, 2010 by yickdaz

[seeker]

You can get light and heavy 12s and 20s .. each can balance as well as the other.... there's nothing to stop you using a lighter load in a lighter 12 - cheaper too!

As to 28 v 30 again its preference rather than a seismic difference.

see if your coach has a selection to try?

As said, there's differences but they both work

[PhilR]

I got a 20b 30" Beretta silver pigeon game gun last season that I use for game shooting - driven and walk/stand and it is much preferable to my 12b for lugging about. However, I shoot predominantly clays and I shoot a 12b for that, I find the 20b rather light, even 30", for clay shooting.

 

If you're going to be a clay shooter first and foremost you have to consider the consumables, that which you buy most of and that's cartridges and the 12b cartridges are cheaper than 20b and always will be, purely in mass production terms 24/28gm of lead costs the same whichever cartridge is loaded into, but it is the price of the other components that go together to make the cartridge which are expensive when the cartridge manufacturer is buying them in limited quantities compared to 12b. The cost is just passed onto the purchaser.

 

BTW my wife is 5ft 2in and weighs just 8st and she shoots a 12b trap gun using 28gm cartridges without any problems.

[Dekers]

A number of 20g are based on 12g actions and not that much different in weight, but many are dedicated 20's, and putting a Heavy cart in a 20 is defeating the object.

 

20g are excellent tools but they are not a substitute for a 12g, they are different!

 

Please do not let anyone tell you a 20 is just as good as a 12, it isn't. A 20 in the RIGHT hands is a very useful tool, the simple fact is VERY FEW are that good with a Shotgun, a 12g is more forgiving on the shot and has far more carts to select from.

 

If in doubt ask yourself why nobody uses a 20 for top competitions?? :blink:

 

ATB!!

Edited August 31, 2010 by Dekers

[magman]

A number of 20g are based on 12g actions and not that much different in weight, but many are dedicated 20's, and putting a Heavy cart in a 20 is defeating the object.

 

20g are excellent tools but they are not a substitute for a 12g, they are different!

 

Please do not let anyone tell you a 20 is just as good as a 12, it isn't. A 20 in the RIGHT hands is a very useful tool, the simple fact is VERY FEW are that good with a Shotgun, a 12g is more forgiving on the shot and has far more carts to select from.

 

If in doubt ask yourself why nobody uses a 20 for top competitions?? :blink:

 

ATB!!

 

Wrong tell me what the difference is between 28 grms of a 12 load is against 28 grms of a 20 load ?

Apart from price ?

 

As you say you are of slight build the 20 could be a better move as you will be quicker on a bird or clay

[Brad93]

If you get a 20b deffinatly pay for the 30" barrels, will balance the gun more and allow you to swing through better.

 

If you get a 12 bore id reccomend 30" barrels to as it extends your effective pattern and range a little more. A must for those high pheasants or ducks

[apache]

A 12 bore is cheaper to buy and cheaper to feed. It absorbs recoil better.

 

If you were walking about a lot and shooting very little a 20G might be an advantage. For most clays and game a 12G more versatile. Wider range of cartridges etc.

[Dekers]

A number of 20g are based on 12g actions and not that much different in weight, but many are dedicated 20's, and putting a Heavy cart in a 20 is defeating the object.

 

20g are excellent tools but they are not a substitute for a 12g, they are different!

 

Please do not let anyone tell you a 20 is just as good as a 12, it isn't. A 20 in the RIGHT hands is a very useful tool, the simple fact is VERY FEW are that good with a Shotgun, a 12g is more forgiving on the shot and has far more carts to select from.

 

If in doubt ask yourself why nobody uses a 20 for top competitions?? :blink:

 

ATB!!

 

 

Wrong tell me what the difference is between 28 grms of a 12 load is against 28 grms of a 20 load ?

Apart from price ?

 

As you say you are of slight build the 20 could be a better move as you will be quicker on a bird or clay

 

Oh dear...please look at my whole post and tell me why 12 exist if the 20 is just as good! Put simply a 12 can do ANYTHING a 20 can, but a 20 CANNOT do everything a 12 can!

 

Therefore....Please do not let anyone tell you a 20 is just as good as a 12, it isn't

 

ATB!

 

Edit...slight of build or not all the girls use 12g in top competition, and easily, because they know how to handle them, Charlotte Kirwood was 15 when she won Gold in the Commonwealth with a 12g, would she have won if she used a 20G :o . I think sometimes too much is made of this 20g for boys and women business, they are excellent tools and often compliment a 12g but they are not substitutes for them!

Edited August 31, 2010 by Dekers

[WGD]

28" 12g

[JonnyR]

Oh dear...please look at my whole post and tell me why 12 exist if the 20 is just as good! Put simply a 12 can do ANYTHING a 20 can, but a 20 CANNOT do everything a 12 can!

 

Therefore....Please do not let anyone tell you a 20 is just as good as a 12, it isn't

 

ATB!

 

Edit...slight of build or not all the girls use 12g in top competition, and easily, because they know how to handle them, Charlotte Kirwood was 15 when she won Gold in the Commonwealth with a 12g, would she have won if she used a 20G . I think sometimes too much is made of this 20g for boys and women business, they are excellent tools and often compliment a 12g but they are not substitutes for them!

:blink:

If you can only have one gun a shoot mainly clays it has to be a 12g. Light or heavy, 28, 30 or even 32" is all down to personal preference so you need to try a few. If you are slight and don't want a lot of weight or recoil then get a semi but don't think about taking it on a game shoot!

[pigglet]

If you get a 20b deffinatly pay for the 30" barrels, will balance the gun more and allow you to swing through better.

 

If you get a 12 bore id reccomend 30" barrels to as it extends your effective pattern and range a little more. A must for those high pheasants or ducks

 

 

Not true. Barrel length has very little effect on pattern and velocity. You lose about 7fps per inch so it can be discounted.

What matters more is the balance of the gun and how it swings. A heavy but well balanced gun will mounty and swing easier than a light but poorly balanced gun.

 

Unfortunately as a beginner it's unlikely that you have developed your style. Try as many guns as you can at the clay ground to see which combination feels and works best for you. Untill you gain some experaince and develop your mount you will struggle to identify what realy works for you.

Chances are that further down the line you will want to change to something else be it lighter, longer, different combe height etc.

 

I strated out with a 30" browning B425, it was a great gun and I got to the point where I was hitting 90-94% of the clays on my local sporting ground with it but.................... I was less competent with it on live game where a snap shot is required.

 

I now have a 26" sbs that from the firts time I shot with it has given me better results than just about anything else I've used be it on clays or anything else. Comon wisdom says It shouldn't but hey, it works

 

You can shoot clays with a light game gun, just use lighter carts. A lightish 12g will bust clays quite happily with 24g carts, don't be put off by the light load. There is nothing they won't break on my local sporting ground. ExpressHV 24's in No 8 flavour do the biz for me.

 

If you haven't already got yor cabinet, get one at least twice as big as you initially thought. It won't be long before you need the space

[twitchynik]

Thanks for all that input chaps, very useful

 

Have access to a few different guns (all 12's tho) so will try and arrange a day at the ground trying them all out back to back, see how that goes.

[jonesbach]

Thanks for all that input chaps, very useful

 

Have access to a few different guns (all 12's tho) so will try and arrange a day at the ground trying them all out back to back, see how that goes.

 

 

just a little extra to think about... if your worried about the recoil and being slight, you could always look into a semi auto? not every bodies choice but take a look/shoot one to see what you think. you will still only use 2 carts in clay shooting but the extra one in the field can be useful when decoying etc..

 

hope you manage to find a suitable one soon!

 

agree with the comment above though..get a cabinet twice as big as you think you need..the collection soon builds!!

[HDAV]

If your looking for something light to carry then there is very little difference in dead weight of a 12 and 20 bore. Lightweight 12 is often lighter than 20 have a look at Franchi O/U and Semi's. lightwieght means more recoil so use a smaller cart 12g will break most clays (if not all when pointing in the right direction) My GF has shot 12 and 20 and prefers the feel of a Browning Lightweight 12 to everything else. I would say get a gun that fits well and live with it until you get to a point that it is the limiting factor not you!

[sitsinhedges]

I shoot a Beretta Al391 Light auto in 12g that weighs 6 1/2 lbs and to be honest I am rarely aware of the recoil in 28gram clayloads and even 32gram pigeon loads aren't really uncomfortable. Maybe it fits me well which would help I suppose but I would be reluctant to go back to lugging a 12g o/u around the fields again.

 

20s are bliss to carry but more expensive to feed so maybe not so suitable for clays

[twitchynik]

just a little extra to think about... if your worried about the recoil and being slight, you could always look into a semi auto?

 

I have and once I started to handle one in a shop I started to dislike it. Too much going on and much less simple (safe!) than a break barrel for a new shooter. After shooting 100 at the weekend with a 12b with 28g 7.5's, including 30+ fast driven overheads (stand 6 at A1?) which used to be a pain for me years back, it wasn't that bad. I think I used to hold the gun badly then and the instructor has worked his magic. Got to like those in the end, even managed a few doubles!

 

To be honest I think I'm a mountain out of a very insignificant mole hill...

[bakerboy]

I have and once I started to handle one in a shop I started to dislike it. Too much going on and much less simple (safe!) than a break barrel for a new shooter. After shooting 100 at the weekend with a 12b with 28g 7.5's, including 30+ fast driven overheads (stand 6 at A1?) which used to be a pain for me years back, it wasn't that bad. I think I used to hold the gun badly then and the instructor has worked his magic. Got to like those in the end, even managed a few doubles!

 

To be honest I think I'm a mountain out of a very insignificant mole hill...

Hello Nick.

Well i think you may be coming up to see me , and we have arranged for a number of guns for you to try, I shoot a Browning GTi Sporter Ultra with 32" barrels, it is light and swings well, most people who have tried it remark on its weight (lack of) and balance, I had the gun from new (about 15years) and had it fitted it made all the difference.

I would recommend that you try as many guns as you can, before buying one, and then keep an open mind for the future

You will get lots of advice and indeed lots of help with Pigeon Watch members take in as much as you can, use what you can remember, and the solution will not be too far away.

Hopefully see you soon

 

bakerboy