Who's Got The Vermin Condition On There FAC ?

[Vermincinerator]

Bazooka joe, i am glad it worked out for you, i had my conditions changed back in 2008 when ACPO actually made the reccomendations.

I sent a letter to my FLO saying, "Please could you ammend condition No5 for my .257 to include vermin fox and ground game as recently reccommended by ACPO."

a week later it was back with comdition ammended as such.

 

Ian.

[Beardo]

A great result all round

[Tam]

Good man well done to both you and SACS

:stupid:

[markbivvy]

Good do.

[richard_gun]

Guys, have read through all the posts and I haven't spotted any from West Mercia.

 

West Mercia (and the neighbouring partner forces have a policy of not allowing the "Any Lawful Quarry" condition. I understand that some FAC holders are trying to push this point but to no avail so far... See the statment below regarding Conditions off West Mercia Firearms website.

 

My FAC has just been granted with West Mercia and I have;

 

.22LR - Vermin

.17HMR - Vermin, Fox

.243 - Fox, Deer

 

 

Firearm Certificate ConditionsFirearm Certificate Conditions, other than the statutory conditions prescribed by the 1998 Firearms Rules, are a mechanism for the Chief Constable to regulate the behaviour of a certificate holder where necessary, on a case by case basis.

 

The Association of Chief Police Officers (ACPO) Firearms and Explosives Licensing Working Group (FELWG) has issued advice that supports Chapter 13.14 & 13.22 of the Home Office guidance. It advised police forces to allow larger calibre rifles to be used to take lesser species i.e. where the primary reason for possession e.g. deer stalking was established, all lesser species such as foxes and pests could to be shot. This condition is expressed as follows:

 

The (rifle/sound moderator/firearms/ammunition) shall be used for shooting (Named Principal Quarry Species) and any other lawful quarry, on land deemed suitable by the chief officer of police for the area where the land is situated, and for zeroing on ranges, over which the holder has lawful authority to shoot.

 

The West Midlands Region (West Mercia, Warwickshire, West Midlands and Staffordshire Police Forces) have legitimately, and unanimously, decided not to incorporate this new condition.

 

Additionally, if this condition is introduced in the future, the granting of certificates bearing this condition is subject to the approval of the Firearms Licensing Manager, based on an individual assessment of the merits of each case and will not be issued, as a matter of course, upon request.

[Bazooka Joe]

Bazooka joe, i am glad it worked out for you, i had my conditions changed back in 2008 when ACPO actually made the reccomendations.

I sent a letter to my FLO saying, "Please could you ammend condition No5 for my .257 to include vermin fox and ground game as recently reccommended by ACPO."

a week later it was back with comdition ammended as such.

 

Ian.

 

 

Hi Ian, thanks for the reply. The problem here is we are under Durham, although it came good in the end I afraid some of the FLO Staff are not up to speed on Firearm matters....& it has to go through the system, this took just over 8 weeks.

 

To be fair most of the problem wasn't the FLO fault, lack of info from the FEO was.

 

 

The West Midlands Region (West Mercia, Warwickshire, West Midlands and Staffordshire Police Forces) have legitimately, and unanimously, decided not to incorporate this new condition.

 

Additionally, if this condition is introduced in the future, the granting of certificates bearing this condition is subject to the approval of the Firearms Licensing Manager, based on an individual assessment of the merits of each case and will not be issued, as a matter of course, upon request.

 

 

Richard are you a member of one of SACS/BASC/NGO ?

 

You need to speak to them, I'd recommend SACS, they will back you, & get on the phone for you, unlike some...!!!

 

What's underlined above is a key issue aswell ie; your good reason to have.

 

[Vermincinerator]

Northants will not instigate "any lawful quarry" either.

 

Ian.

[richard_gun]

 

 

Richard are you a member of one of SACS/BASC/NGO ?

 

You need to speak to them, I'd recommend SACS, they will back you, & get on the phone for you, unlike some...!!!

 

What's underlined above is a key issue aswell ie; your good reason to have.

 

 

 

Hi BJ

 

I am a member of BASC but I don't think they have had any success with this one and west Mercia. One of the more experienced (than me!!) guys off Stalking Directory has really been pushing this and has been trying to get his MP involved as well.

 

To be totally honest I was pretty satisfied with what West Mercia allowed me. I have got a mentor for the .243 but am quite happy with that as I won't claim to be that centre fire savvy so have plenty to learn. they did give me deer on it as well without any mention of DSC1 although I do intend to do it as soon as time and funds allow.

 

So all in all not too dissapointed

[Dekers]

Glad you are sorted but this is all a load of dogs doings still.

 

Last year ACPO agreed to instigate the term..ALL OTHER LAWFUL QUARRY, in order to simplify/rationalize terms on the FAC.

 

They obviously have not, and all it seems to have done is complicate things, but that is what is says on mine now!

[grasshopper]

I am applying for much the same as BJ and as we do the vermin together on the same shoot,my hopes are now significantly raised that i too will be successful.

 

Unlike BJ, i am a member of BASC.

Mike Everleigh is who i spoke too,and he did point out that although recommended by ACPO,it was not law,and therefore we are not automatically entitled to it...BUT..if we are prepared for a long fight,then eventually we most likely will be granted the "any lawful quarry condition".

 

What i also found strange is that even though i hold DSC 1,have a .243 with stalking condition and land to stalk on,i was not automatically entitled to have Deer stalking for my .22 250 without having to jump through all the hoops and give good reason.

This too is not law and can be refused by your licencing branch.

 

I e-mailed a copy of my letter of application to Mike and was a little dissapointed to get it back with great chunks simply deleted and a few hints in brackets for me too sort after he said to send it in and he would ammend it to a standard that would hopefully get me the conditions i was after.

In fact it made very little sense and i had to practically start again.

 

Should i be refused (only after stalking for the .22 250 and Vermin for both centrefires)then i will be contacting BASC for advice on how to proceed,although i was impressed that Ian Clark(SACS) rang Durham direct for BJ.

 

My hope is that with all of the different organisations we are members of lobbying our licencing branches,then it hopefully will be easier for future applicants to succeed.

[tikka.223]

.

 

Mine is northumbria and states "for shooting vermin and for zeroing on ranges or land over which the holder has lawful authority to shoot"

 

PS unlike some, Northumbria class a fox as vermin,as it should be..

 

Same here,PSNI.

[kdubya]

I believe that hawkeye has been in touch with basc and then subsequently with cleveland police (my area) and that whilst they are still shaking their heads at vermin for centerfire they will now add "ground game" I may have it wrong but? but I was at the police headquarters with him toady whilst he put his ticket in to be changed, It will be interesting to see what wording is used when he gets it back ( probably tommorow or the day after)

 

cheers KW

[malkiserow]

I had ground game added for .22lr but it is not on any centre fire of mine.

[barrelsniffer]

I tried the route of BASC stating pretty much along the lines of what Mr Logic said in earlier post....

 

"for example, say I am shooting rabbits on a hill, and I cannot get close, and the hill in question is incredibly windy. The safest and most practical rifle is something like a .243 since the windage is reduced markedly. However, if I shoot rabbits in a horse paddock, even a large one, then a 243 is not the tool of choice, obviously! Therefore, each case must be looked at individually".

 

I explained very similar wording for 223 using heavier heads in windy conditions which are better in rough conditions where using a 25gn 17 rem head would be useless and un-sportsman on the game/vermin and where getting closer than 200 yds was impossible..also that taking 2 rifles and leaving one in veh was a no no as there is high rural crime in this area,and very unsafe to do so.

 

I been trying for over a yr now BASC were a waste so contacted NGO which so far have been in touch with cheshire..and we are now waiting for a reply..so wait out.

 

Mick

[Mr_Logic]

It's nuts! Not overly happy that Northants don't do 'any other legal quarry' since that's my ticket wording from Thames Valley and I move up there in less than a month. Still, have another 4 3/4 years on it so it might have changed by then!!

[al4x]

It's nuts! Not overly happy that Northants don't do 'any other legal quarry' since that's my ticket wording from Thames Valley and I move up there in less than a month. Still, have another 4 3/4 years on it so it might have changed by then!!

 

 

hate to say it but if you move up there and notify them of the move you have to send your ticket back and they re print, presumably they use their conditions rather than your existing ones. Just to muddy the water I now have pests on all mine plus deer

[Vermincinerator]

It's nuts! Not overly happy that Northants don't do 'any other legal quarry' since that's my ticket wording from Thames Valley and I move up there in less than a month. Still, have another 4 3/4 years on it so it might have changed by then!!

 

Hi Mr Logic,

I will be interesting to see what conditions you get on your licence when you move up here.

I asked for the "all legal quarry" this time last year when i applied for a variation, my request was completely ignored and came back with the same conditions as when it went out.

 

Ian.

[Mr_Logic]

I'm not planning on sending my ticket in - BASC has a useful fact sheet on what you need to do when you move house. No requirement to notify the destination force, just the originating one apparently.

 

Given that the conditions appear to favour me, I'll stick with as long as possible.

 

Ultimately I am not massively fussed about the wording, so long as the upshot is I can knock over rabbits with a Hornet and a .222. Not so worried about 223 or 308 though!

[robbobsam]

I have FAC air rifle, .22lr, 20cal .243 and .308.

 

I have deer and any lawful quarry on .243 and .308

I have fox and any lawful quarry on .20cal

I have Vermin and ground game on .22 air rifle and .22lr.

 

Its all down to your local force apparently.

 

90% of my hunting is done with .22lr and occasionally the .243 for long range stuff.

 

The others are not used that much.

[Browning]

It's nuts! Not overly happy that Northants don't do 'any other legal quarry' since that's my ticket wording from Thames Valley and I move up there in less than a month. Still, have another 4 3/4 years on it so it might have changed by then!!

 

I had the same problem when I moved from Thames Valley to Northants a couple of years ago (Approximately a 12 mile move!).

Unfortunately mine was up for renewal shortly after the move and the 'any other legal quarry' condition was removed. They did however give

me deer/fox on my 6.5x55AI and deer/fox/vermin/ground game on my .243AI.

[al4x]

I'm not planning on sending my ticket in - BASC has a useful fact sheet on what you need to do when you move house. No requirement to notify the destination force, just the originating one apparently.

 

Given that the conditions appear to favour me, I'll stick with as long as possible.

 

Ultimately I am not massively fussed about the wording, so long as the upshot is I can knock over rabbits with a Hornet and a .222. Not so worried about 223 or 308 though!

 

 

so you aren't going to notify then of change of address or get them to inspect your new security arrangements? You'd best prepare to bend over and receive a proper shafting were your guns to be stolen from that address :blink:

[Mr_Logic]

I'm going under BASC's sheet which says that in law all I have to do is notify of change of address, see your FAC. there's no requirement to do anything else, and I will comply with the law.

[al4x]

I had to send mine in last time to have the address changed on it and at the same time have the security checked, I take it you aren't going to tell them and not have your safe checked? just in case you loose the vermin condition? whatever BASC says that is Barmy and may not work as the different county will be sent your file and new address so when you don't make contact I'd assume they will make contact with you.

[Mr_Logic]

Yes, in all likelihood they will pop round, but, and it is a big but, my ticket is valid for 5 years irrespective of address. I still have permissions and good reason so there is no case to revoke it.

 

In law there is no cause to change anything or reprint. I do not allow Police forces to make the law up as they go along, so I shall be complying wholly with the law and I expect them to do the same. It's simple, and it's fair.

[al4x]

you'll have the incorrect address on your FAC though that is why they re print it, and you then come under the new county. Not sure about allowing them to make it up but everything they've ever told me is inform your force and the new force of the move they will then inspect security and you will get a reprinted FAC with the correct address details on. Its up to you though if you want a fairly pointless fight go for it,

 

this is Herts police's view on the subject

 

http://www.herts.police.uk/firearms_licensing/address.htm

 

Northamptonshire are pretty vague but they do have a form to notify them of the move

 

http://www.northants.police.uk/default.aspx?id=forms&formid=9