Woodcock

[marlin vs]

did not know they were in decline tho where did you read or hear of this please ?

I havent heard of their decline either Fisherman mike,could you post a link as i'd like to read it.

[docholiday]

i have to admit that woodcock dont often offer a real test of marksmanship, and they are quite easy to knock down. i am by no means sore on them, i would shoot about a dozen each season. its the thrill about never knowing when they will spring up that gets me going. i disagree about the comparison to liver, dont think they are anything remotely like liver, and they have ample meat on them. put it this way, they have as much on them as a teal if not more. like sako i cant abide anyone who would look to shoot big bags of woodcock, but i know it goes on unfortunately. its a very short season on them, and they are widespread throughout the uk when they arrive from russia etc, so i feel justified in potting a few for the soup pot

 

 

Hmmm not sure what sort of woodcock your shooting at if you believe that

[Richie10]

Seen loads this year and Snipe.

 

People like to shoot them and eat them, it is still legal.

 

I sometimes wonder on this site if people don't want to restrict the sport even more!

[al4x]

They are a very sporting quarry and taste good, thats why I usually have a few each season. Not sure where making people shoot dangerously comes into it as you don't have to be dangerous when shooting, unless by my experience you are either Italian or The Indian High Commissioner.

[ollie]

i have to admit that woodcock dont often offer a real test of marksmanship, and they are quite easy to knock down. i am by no means sore on them, i would shoot about a dozen each season. its the thrill about never knowing when they will spring up that gets me going. i disagree about the comparison to liver, dont think they are anything remotely like liver, and they have ample meat on them. put it this way, they have as much on them as a teal if not more. like sako i cant abide anyone who would look to shoot big bags of woodcock, but i know it goes on unfortunately. its a very short season on them, and they are widespread throughout the uk when they arrive from russia etc, so i feel justified in potting a few for the soup pot

 

What he said!!!

 

I honestly don't know where you are getting the info about their numbers being in decline. Last year I saw more than I have ever saw ( I am aware that the winter was extremely cold). I very much agree that they shouldn't be shot in big numbers, I would never shoot any more than 6 in a day and at the very most 30 in a year. As for the taste they are one of the best tasting birds I have ever ate. I also think they can be a very sporting bird; you never know when they are going to flush and they are very aerobatic in their ability to swerve around a tree or gorse bush.

[Highlander]

Not sure where some of this info is coming from but I do have the results of the GWCT (Game & Wildlife Conservation Trust)and the BTO (British Trust for Ornithology) 2007 survey (You can make a donation to further this research if you have any interest at all here.) recently revealed the estimated UK breeding population to be in excess of 70,000 pairs with an annual winter influx to our shores of over 10 times that number, 750,000 birds. That's some number and apparently the eastern counties tend to hold one of the highest densities. Over the last few years we've seen bag numbers on rough shoot days on some of our coastal estates climbing.

 

A magical bird, I have seen the legendary carrying of young May 24th 1989 and yes I shoot them, with respect.

[GW80]

Would have to say the woodcock is about my favourite quarry, i would never shoot more than 4 or 5 in a day, but without doubt is my number one game bird, as for the numbers being on decline i don't think so, last year local to me was a bumper year, and when the real hard weather came about Xmas i and most others stopped shooting them as they weren't flying just as well. Nothing wrong in shooting woodcock and most i shoot offer good eating!!

[anser2]

Another point is that we have a restricted quarry list , surely Mike you are not suggesting we give up another species. We have already lost the best eating and difficult bird to outwit the curlew , if we gave up woodcock , what next , golden plover or snipe perhaps? Winter in this country woodcock have much larger populations than many other quarry species such as pintail , tufted duck , pochard , pink footed , canada , greylag and white fronted geese. So the woodcock is much better placed to withstand a modest harvest each year.

[hushpower]

I seem to remember in one of the shooting mags not to long ago an article on woodcock that implied its numbers were on the up en up,but i cant back it up has i cant pin point the mag or the article

[Fisherman Mike]

Another point is that we have a restricted quarry list , surely Mike you are not suggesting we give up another species. We have already lost the best eating and difficult bird to outwit the curlew , if we gave up woodcock , what next , golden plover or snipe perhaps? Winter in this country woodcock have much larger populations than many other quarry species such as pintail , tufted duck , pochard , pink footed , canada , greylag and white fronted geese. So the woodcock is much better placed to withstand a modest harvest each year.

 

No Im not suggesting that at all...fair play if they get eaten and people enjoy them then thats what its all about. If numbers are sustainable, which they appear to be no problem. Only thing which galls me is seeing them shot and not consumed in which case it seems pretty pointless.

[docholiday]

couldnt agree more Mike

doc

Edited November 16, 2010 by docholiday

[woodcock1]

Lots of mixed opinions, and this is just mine. I have watched studied and shot woodcock for many years and I certainly can see no sign that woodcock numbers are in decline.

They vary greatly in number from year to year and place to place, but looking back over my written records from many years shows fairly constant numbers with a good increase in the last five or so.(Every woodcock I see throughout the whole year is recorded). Being as elusive and secretive as they are how would the European bureaucrats that put them on a conservation list even attempt to find out their numbers.Even working with dogs (very good dogs at that) or watching birds flighting at night which is again totally inaccurate as not all woodcock live in woods and fly out a known path at night. Most of the top scientists that actually study woodcock including Jean Paul Boidot, Colin Trotman and the late Colin Mc Kelvie all agree that woodcock are not in decline.

Each year I see anything up to 500 woodcock during the shooting season which is way more than I see of rabbits,squirrels,deer etc. but nobody would imagine putting any of these on a protection list.

As sporting people we must avoid stating that any species is in decline without hard evidence as someday Europe could just pass a bill banning the shooting of woodcock and God knows what else!

 

Rant over I think woodcock are the most spectacular bird I know of. What other bird can slow its heartbeat to almost stop to avoid being found, can repair its own wounds using a 'bandage' of blood and feathers, can carry its young in its legs away from danger and fly half way round the world to the same holly bush it sat under for the last x number of years in a row. Totally amazing. They have my total respect and I will continue to hunt and shoot them in a sustainable manner as long as Europe allows me.

[Blackbart]

OK mike,would it not be easier if you told us what birds you think it would be ok to shoot ?

 

A few weeks ago you said shooting was responsible for a massive decline in pigeon numbers and was not sustainable,now woodcock should not be shot,whats next week ?

 

It is a testing bird and the fella that said they are not sporting and easy to shoot must not know what a woodcock is and has been eating blackbirds or something.They taste delicious and are still numerous so dont see any reason to stop shooting them.

[al4x]

No Im not suggesting that at all...fair play if they get eaten and people enjoy them then thats what its all about. If numbers are sustainable, which they appear to be no problem. Only thing which galls me is seeing them shot and not consumed in which case it seems pretty pointless.

 

 

where have you seen them shot and not eaten Mike?

[Fisherman Mike]

OK mike,would it not be easier if you told us what birds you think it would be ok to shoot ?

 

A few weeks ago you said shooting was responsible for a massive decline in pigeon numbers and was not sustainable,now woodcock should not be shot,whats next week ?

 

It is a testing bird and the fella that said they are not sporting and easy to shoot must not know what a woodcock is and has been eating blackbirds or something.They taste delicious and are still numerous so dont see any reason to stop shooting them.

 

 

I didnt say that at all.

[Fisherman Mike]

where have you seen them shot and not eaten Mike?

 

Ive seen them thrown away at organised shoots in recent years, plus one of the game dealers I deal with rekons 50% of the cocks he gets are not bought and the demand for them has slumped somewhat.

 

Im not advocating at all that the birds are not shot, far from it they are on the game birds list and each of us can make their own mind up. Im just enquiring as to why people feel the need to shoot them if they dont eat them and the birds dont cause damage then it must be just for the kudos of saying you have sportingly killed a woodcock ( a very Victorian attitude) and that is possibly the main reason why they are shot.

 

Ive no problem with that at all. I just prefer to see them alive.

 

As you were....

[Fisherman Mike]

Lots of mixed opinions, and this is just mine. I have watched studied and shot woodcock for many years and I certainly can see no sign that woodcock numbers are in decline.

They vary greatly in number from year to year and place to place, but looking back over my written records from many years shows fairly constant numbers with a good increase in the last five or so.(Every woodcock I see throughout the whole year is recorded). Being as elusive and secretive as they are how would the European bureaucrats that put them on a conservation list even attempt to find out their numbers.Even working with dogs (very good dogs at that) or watching birds flighting at night which is again totally inaccurate as not all woodcock live in woods and fly out a known path at night. Most of the top scientists that actually study woodcock including Jean Paul Boidot, Colin Trotman and the late Colin Mc Kelvie all agree that woodcock are not in decline.

Each year I see anything up to 500 woodcock during the shooting season which is way more than I see of rabbits,squirrels,deer etc. but nobody would imagine putting any of these on a protection list.

As sporting people we must avoid stating that any species is in decline without hard evidence as someday Europe could just pass a bill banning the shooting of woodcock and God knows what else!

 

Rant over I think woodcock are the most spectacular bird I know of. What other bird can slow its heartbeat to almost stop to avoid being found, can repair its own wounds using a 'bandage' of blood and feathers, can carry its young in its legs away from danger and fly half way round the world to the same holly bush it sat under for the last x number of years in a row. Totally amazing. They have my total respect and I will continue to hunt and shoot them in a sustainable manner as long as Europe allows me.

 

 

Admirable post and very interesting..I too have studied Woodcock and other associated waders like Snipe and Jack Snipe over many years of active ornithology and census work for the BTO and RSPB.

 

The Beaurocrats who have compiled the information are infact 100,s of individuals like you or I, predominately Hunters who relay research information and carry out breeding bird surveys anually in Europe and the UK. You may well be right the Eurpoean Woodcock which swells the UK breeding population during the winter months may well be as strong as it was but both the BTO and RSPB opine that the resident UK population is in decline and as you probabaly know yourself the bird has been given BTO amber status.

 

I also agree with you entirely about the mystery and beauty surrounding what is possibly the least understood resident British bird and as you have probably deduced its one of my favorites too which is why I like to see them alive rather than liflessly trussed up.

 

Keep up the good work.

[perazzi82]

i have to agree with you there mike. there is an awful lot of idiots out there who shoot them and dont even want them. what is the point in that as you say. and blackbart i have shot a fair few woodcock in my life, and they do offer some very straight forward shots at times. if you disagree then what great variety of shots to they give you in comparison to the mix of shots pigeon provide? you want to believe they offer great shots when in reality they are mostly just straight away snap shots. and if they have to fly a bit of distance over an open field after they break cover then they provide an even more basic shot

[Blackbart]

i have to agree with you there mike. there is an awful lot of idiots out there who shoot them and dont even want them. what is the point in that as you say. and blackbart i have shot a fair few woodcock in my life, and they do offer some very straight forward shots at times. if you disagree then what great variety of shots to they give you in comparison to the mix of shots pigeon provide? you want to believe they offer great shots when in reality they are mostly just straight away snap shots. and if they have to fly a bit of distance over an open field after they break cover then they provide an even more basic shot

 

 

Perazzi...I would wager money that if you asked a 100 guns if woodcock are easy to shoot the overwhelming answer would be "NO".Woodcock dont generally offer "straight away" shots !The woodcock i have seen jink left,right,up and down and resemble a jet trying to avoid a missile !So how is that easy to hit ?

Shooting must be a real bore for you having to shoot at "basic" targets.

 

Also how is someone an idiot if they shoot something they dont want to eat ?

[Richie10]

Is this the same RSPB that is buying up wetlands to take away from wildfowlers?

 

They are always going to say the population is low that's how they take birds off the quarry list.

[Fisherman Mike]

Is this the same RSPB that is buying up wetlands to take away from wildfowlers?

 

They are always going to say the population is low that's how they take birds off the quarry list.

 

They are in fact purchasing Wetlands to preserve them just as that and prevent them drying up or being drained for Agricultural use similar to what happened on a large scale in the Fens and the Somerset levels. Preserving Wetlands will conserve the populations of wildfowl and keep them at sustainable levels and thereby preserve sport for the wildfowlers. It’s got nothing at all to do with trying to stop the sport. However it’s obvious that if wildfowl levels and indigenous game bird levels did decline to unsustainable levels for shooting then they would have a strong hand in government policy. If you have an axe to grind, grind it with the French, Italian, and Spanish Authorities who allow shooting carnage of all migratory birds on a scale you and I cannot even begin to imagine. Luckily the woodcock generally migrate in the dark hours, navigating their way to the UK by moonlight it is thought. If they came during the day the Europeans would probably have decimated the population of Europe, Scandinavia and Russia by now and they would be off the game bird list along with other duck species which are struggling.

[wildfowler.250]

We have already lost the best eating and difficult bird to outwit the curlew

 

I think Curlew should go back on the list. theres not a shortage of them as far as I can see!

 

 

 

Rant over I think woodcock are the most spectacular bird I know of. What other bird can slow its heartbeat to almost stop to avoid being found, can repair its own wounds using a 'bandage' of blood and feathers

 

I Didn't know that. Where did you find this out?

[Highlander]

Mike you make some interesting comments from time to time BUT this is NOT one of them... ‘It’s got nothing at all to do with trying to stop the sport’. I know you’re a keen ‘birdy’ man as well as a shooter but you really are going too far with that comment.

 

The RSPB have publicly claimed that they will have no shooting on land they own and would like to see quarry shooting banned. They have a huge single resource to buy up available land which is why BASC have their own (limited) fund to help wildfowlers buy land.

 

It is an acknowledged fact that; 0ver 2 million hectares of land in the UK is actively managed for conservation by shooters (more land than any other conservation body) and that shoot providers spend some £250 million a year on conservation (5 times the RSPB’s annual income). In addition shooters spend 2.7 million (mostly unpaid) work days on conservation, the equivalent of 12,000 full time jobs. The incidental benefit to wildlife on a shoot is immense but increasingly shooters are undertaking deliberate and targeted efforts to conserve habitat and species.

 

Shooters are NOT against the bird watching community BUT the bird watching community is largely against shooters! If land is once bought by the RSPB goodbye shooting on it for ever!

 

Apologies if I hijacked the main subject of this thread.

[al4x]

unless you mean shooting foxes and deer as the RSPB can quite encourage those at times in an effort to protect birds and habitat. Pretty two faced if you ask me but thats the way with some of these charities.

[Terry P]

They are in fact purchasing Wetlands to preserve them just as that and prevent them drying up or being drained for Agricultural use similar to what happened on a large scale in the Fens and the Somerset levels. Preserving Wetlands will conserve the populations of wildfowl and keep them at sustainable levels and thereby preserve sport for the wildfowlers. It’s got nothing at all to do with trying to stop the sport. However it’s obvious that if wildfowl levels and indigenous game bird levels did decline to unsustainable levels for shooting then they would have a strong hand in government policy. If you have an axe to grind, grind it with the French, Italian, and Spanish Authorities who allow shooting carnage of all migratory birds on a scale you and I cannot even begin to imagine. Luckily the woodcock generally migrate in the dark hours, navigating their way to the UK by moonlight it is thought. If they came during the day the Europeans would probably have decimated the population of Europe, Scandinavia and Russia by now and they would be off the game bird list along with other duck species which are struggling.

If the RSPB are buying land to just preserve it,why do they stop fowlers from using it on most of the marshes they buy.Why not just let wildfowling clubs buy it and manage it.

Thousand upon thousand of acres of marsh have been lost forever to the RSPB. Still I never realised they were buying it to preserve our sport,and when have wildfowl decloined to unsustainable levels,we lost waders nothing to with sustainable levels,as for indigenous game levels I fail to see the RSPB spending millions on saving the English partridge.

As for woodcock I no longer shoot them as I dislike the taste.