SilentKill Posted November 26, 2010 Report Share Posted November 26, 2010 can someone clear up for me what is the minimum calibre for taking foxes in England..... I was under the impression that the minimum calibre is .17REM..... and HMR is not allowed. Yet i read people on here taking foxes in England area's with HMR? any help would be great! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted November 26, 2010 Report Share Posted November 26, 2010 can someone clear up for me what is the minimum calibre for taking foxes in England..... I was under the impression that the minimum calibre is .17REM..... and HMR is not allowed. Yet i read people on here taking foxes in England area's with HMR? any help would be great! Hi, In short, no one can clear it up for you; that's the problem. Until the current legislation is rationalised the situation will remain farcical. The only definitive answer (which may not be sensible but will keep you on the right side of PC Plod) is that given by your local constabulary firearms licensing department. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barrelsniffer Posted November 26, 2010 Report Share Posted November 26, 2010 can someone clear up for me what is the minimum calibre for taking foxes in England..... I was under the impression that the minimum calibre is .17REM..... and HMR is not allowed. Yet i read people on here taking foxes in England area's with HMR? any help would be great! 17HMR will kill a fox but bullet placement is paramount for a clean kill...my opinion for min cal for good clean kill would be a 22 hornet for 100 yds max range any further then use larger cal. Mick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilentKill Posted November 26, 2010 Author Report Share Posted November 26, 2010 Thanks for the quick replies. I dont want to start a debate on the calibres ability to kill a fox merely what the Guide lines are in terms of using the calibre for foxing. thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted November 26, 2010 Report Share Posted November 26, 2010 HMR's kill foxes well, I've totted up about 30 so far with mine only three ran and two were when trying the 20 grain hp's hole straight through the engine room in both cases just not enough expansion to stop them running. The GWP found them dead within 50 yards so wasn't too fussed, had one we couldn't find but it was in a location we couldn't look too hard. If the range is right they can be a useful tool for the job in areas you don't want to use a centrefire, of course I use the .223 when dedicated foxing but as an opportunist tool it works well. I also have always had it covered on my ticket. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blunderbuss Posted November 26, 2010 Report Share Posted November 26, 2010 (edited) can someone clear up for me what is the minimum calibre for taking foxes in England..... I was under the impression that the minimum calibre is .17REM..... and HMR is not allowed. Yet i read people on here taking foxes in England area's with HMR? any help would be great! It depends on the chief constable but effectively delegated to his firearm licensing department. Some allow HMR for fox some don't. It's a completely lottery and that's just one example of inconsistent policy and conditions across forces, its a farce. Edited November 26, 2010 by Blunderbuss Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frenchieboy Posted November 26, 2010 Report Share Posted November 26, 2010 (edited) Thanks for the quick replies. I dont want to start a debate on the calibres ability to kill a fox merely what the Guide lines are in terms of using the calibre for foxing. thanks Hi Mate, This really is such a "grey area" that I think "Wymberley" has give the best possible answer by saying that you should give your local constabulary Firearms Office a ring and ask them about it. There is currently no hard and fast rule that the different constabularies have to stick to regarding "Suitable Minimum Calibers for Shooting Foxes", some forces will allow a rimfire while others will not. It appears to be a bit of a "Post Code Lottery" at the moment! It really is high time that ALL FORCES STARTED SINGING FROM THE SAME HYMN SHEET and made (and stuck to) one ruling throughout all of the UK! At the moment all you can do is to phone your local Firearms Office up and ask them what the minimum caliber is that they will allow for shooting foxes! Edited November 28, 2010 by Frenchieboy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kyska Posted November 26, 2010 Report Share Posted November 26, 2010 It is bizzare, I shoot on the farm in Nottinghamshire, they allow HMR as the minimum calibre (ME wise) for fox, I'm licensed by Leicestershire and they insist on a CF. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilentKill Posted November 26, 2010 Author Report Share Posted November 26, 2010 see i love the fact that its the chief constables say so.... my chief constable in my force does nothing for it! and i know him! lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stokie Posted November 26, 2010 Report Share Posted November 26, 2010 Staffs allow hmr and its a fantastic round . Often a little underestimated . It depend what gun you have in your hand at the time as to whether its the perfect round or not Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasons gold Posted November 26, 2010 Report Share Posted November 26, 2010 essex does'nt allow hmr but will let someone from say hertfordshire as long as there conditions allow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted November 26, 2010 Report Share Posted November 26, 2010 essex does'nt allow hmr but will let someone from say hertfordshire as long as there conditions allow. they don't get any choice about it as what is written on your ticket is valid throughout the country. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekers Posted November 26, 2010 Report Share Posted November 26, 2010 can someone clear up for me what is the minimum calibre for taking foxes in England..... I was under the impression that the minimum calibre is .17REM..... and HMR is not allowed. Yet i read people on here taking foxes in England area's with HMR? any help would be great! There is NO minimum calibre in law, it is what your firearms department decide to issue! There are guidelines in the Home Office Firearms Law Guidance to the Police 2002 (the latest available), but they are suggestions, see page 77, you will also note the HMR does not appear at all ! http://tna.europarchive.org/20100419081706/http://police.homeoffice.gov.uk/publications/operational-policing/HO-Firearms-Guidance2835.pdf?view=Binary Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njc110381 Posted November 26, 2010 Report Share Posted November 26, 2010 Guidelines state that each case should be considered by it's own merits but generally .22 Hornet is considered the minimum (the .17 Rem has a higher muzzle energy even though it's a smaller calibre). Legally there is no minimum calibre as long as it's done humanely. I can shoot Foxes with all of my rifles from .22lr to .338 Win Mag but that doesn't mean I will in all situations. The .22lr is ok at close range if you have a good solid rest and can shoot it accurately in the head or heart. By close range I mean sub 50 yards. On the other hand it would be stupid to shoot a Fox trapped in a live cage or even on 75% of my land with my .338. It really is horses for courses. I think the amount of trust put in the shooter to do the right thing varies between forces. There's absolutely no reason you shouldn't shoot a Fox with a .22lr but perhaps they worry that people will be out there taking 100 yard shots if they allow the calibre to be used? At the same time many forces don't like large calibres for vermin but they are humane. The key here lies on safety and really there is no need to have anything bigger than a .22 centrefire for vermin, but if it's safe then why not? It's not the key use for the gun but occasionally it's nice to be able to shoot that cheeky Rabbit that's been under your high seat for hours when you're Deer stalking! I'm very lucky. My force seem to be very reasonable with my conditions and feel happy that I'll use the right guns for the right situations. I never do anything risky, be it on humane grounds or safety. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toka_shigazu Posted November 27, 2010 Report Share Posted November 27, 2010 Dekers.... my FEO mentioned that but then went on to say that the HMR was not on there as at that time it was only an 'experimental' round at that time and so not on the list. He went on to say that they would eventually update the list and then it may change but he couldnt see it being done for a while... i am not sure of the status of the HMR in 2002 but it does sound about right - certainly it wasn't as popular in 2002 as it is now?? the sooner there is one set of rules adhered to by all forces the better... atb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apache Posted November 27, 2010 Report Share Posted November 27, 2010 Dekers.... my FEO mentioned that but then went on to say that the HMR was not on there as at that time it was only an 'experimental' round at that time and so not on the list. He went on to say that they would eventually update the list and then it may change but he couldnt see it being done for a while... i am not sure of the status of the HMR in 2002 but it does sound about right - certainly it wasn't as popular in 2002 as it is now?? the sooner there is one set of rules adhered to by all forces the better... atb Wikipedia has it as invented in 2002. So unheard of when the guide was written. You can shoot a cow with a .22RF humanely, it should be left up to the shooter in the particular circumstances. If your licence is conditioned for 'vermin' a number of clued up legal people believe that a court of law would easily cover foxes under the definition, and they could be shot with no specific condition. I keep meaning to rink the BASC and ask if they would defend that position. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redgum Posted November 27, 2010 Report Share Posted November 27, 2010 I have fox down for my .17hmr, I tried to get the FEO to include my .22lr as well for shooting fox in snares or traps, his answer was just use the hmr.Though who would really take me to task if I shot a fox with the .22lr, the CZ varmints in both calibres look identical, doupt if they would get police forensics to do an autopsy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekers Posted November 27, 2010 Report Share Posted November 27, 2010 Dekers.... my FEO mentioned that but then went on to say that the HMR was not on there as at that time it was only an 'experimental' round at that time and so not on the list. He went on to say that they would eventually update the list and then it may change but he couldnt see it being done for a while... i am not sure of the status of the HMR in 2002 but it does sound about right - certainly it wasn't as popular in 2002 as it is now?? the sooner there is one set of rules adhered to by all forces the better... atb Well... the HMR was certainly not experimental then, but neither was it in great circulation, it was available though, nevertheless this is just another reason why the list is a GUIDE and NOT LAW! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stokeshooter Posted November 27, 2010 Report Share Posted November 27, 2010 can someone clear up for me what is the minimum calibre for taking foxes in England..... I was under the impression that the minimum calibre is .17REM..... and HMR is not allowed. Yet i read people on here taking foxes in England area's with HMR? any help would be great! ive shot plenty of foxes with my HMR staffs feo,s not got a prob with it for foxing its a great round for the job Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr_Logic Posted November 28, 2010 Report Share Posted November 28, 2010 Surprised this thread is still running... HMR is sometimes allowed, as is 22Lr. Both are adequate if needs must; neither is a primary fox tool. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilentKill Posted November 28, 2010 Author Report Share Posted November 28, 2010 Surprised this thread is still running... HMR is sometimes allowed, as is 22Lr. Both are adequate if needs must; neither is a primary fox tool. Well the point was I had read that in the "guidelines" that the minimum calibre for fox was .17remmington. But it appears that different forces have different opinions and different restrictions. But to summarise it seems to be a grey area where ever you are and open to interpretation o what is stated on your ticket! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekers Posted November 28, 2010 Report Share Posted November 28, 2010 (edited) Well the point was I had read that in the "guidelines" that the minimum calibre for fox was .17remmington. But it appears that different forces have different opinions and different restrictions. But to summarise it seems to be a grey area where ever you are and open to interpretation o what is stated on your ticket! Chap...you have answered your own question ...guidelines...there is nothing in law about this, if you can justify a calibre for Fox then you can have it, but some forces have a "Policy", so you may well have to take them to court to get it! Good luck! Edited November 28, 2010 by Dekers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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