16g cartridge on high pheasants

[Gillaroo]

Hi All

 

Shot a very nice little driven shoot the other day which showed some good high birds and although I shot well and was very selective I feel I need a bit more punch in my 16g as the usual 28g 5's weren't killing as cleanly as I'd like. Gun is choked 1/4 and 3/4.

 

Thinking of trying some Express 16 bore 30g (any opinions from users?) but will it make enough difference or should I just swap for a 12g which isn't really what I want to shoot with as I get on so well with the 16g? Are there any 32g 16g cartridges (fibre only) out there?

 

Any views/advice appreciated from the ballistic experts but I don't want to hear "start shooting the low ones"!

 

Thanks in advance

 

Mike

[busbiter]

Hi Mike,

 

I shoot a 16 also mate, I have used pretty much all of the commercially available 16 guage cartridges available in the UK. I have used the express 30gram 6's and also eley alphamax 5's & 6's and both certainly pack a punch. The 30 gram express are packed into a 65mm case so can be used in a gun with 2 1/2 inch chambers where as the alphamax are 70mm so can only be used in 2 3/4 chambers. I think I am right in saying both are only available in fibre wad. What gun is it you are using incidentally?

 

I have a load of older eley hymax's at home in shot size 4, 6 & 7 and have used these to good effect recentley despite being nearly 40 years old, these are 32 gram also.

 

The hardest hitting 16 guage cartridge I have fired are rottweil waidmansheill in 32 gram of 6 although these are not only ridiculously expensive but next to impossible to get hold of now. I managed to pick up a few from Just Cartridges a few years back but the do not stock rottweil's anymore unfortunately.

 

RC 28 gram 6's are another good hard hitting cartridge as european shot sizes (english 5 1/2) and the 5's being 4 1/2's although these are plastic wad only.

 

Eley have revamped the whole 16 guage cartridge range now with all being listed under VIP brand although have not seen any for sale anywhere as yet, should be avialble in 26.5 (replaces grand prix) 28 gram (existing VIP load) and 32 gram replacing the alphamax.

 

The gamebore traditional game cartridges are ok but bought a few boxes recentley but some cases were deformed and would not even fit into the chamber!

 

Hull three crowns paper cased 16's are the smoothest by a mile and look the part too

 

Hope this helps mate

 

Regards

 

Stuart

[Gillaroo]

Many thanks for the reply Stuart. The gun is a Somerton sidelock which is beautifully balanced and a joy to shoot. Like you I've tried all sorts of cartridges as many old boxes end up with me as nobody else I shoot with uses a 16 which is a shame. It's such a good gauge in my opinion. I'll get in touch with Eley as the best I've found were the Alphamax 5's but can't get hold of them anymore. If they are doing a 32g load I'll be happy to give them a go and report back.

All the best.

Mike

[Gillaroo]

Stuart

 

Have spoken to Eley and the new 32g for a 16g will be called the VIP although their website is yet to be updated. Cannot find them in stock anywhere though!

 

Cheers

 

Mike

[busbiter]

Stuart

 

Have spoken to Eley and the new 32g for a 16g will be called the VIP although their website is yet to be updated. Cannot find them in stock anywhere though!

 

Cheers

 

Mike

 

Hi Mike,

 

If you have any old eley 16's kicking around that you dont want then I would be interested in buying them or any older 16's other than eley for that matter. I am after specifically after eley maximum 16's that they made in the late 60's (30gram loads) plastic case. Looking through old eley brochures that I have it looks as though they had stopped making this load by 1972 as were no longer listed after this date. In my eyes it makes perfect sense for manafactures to still make a 30 gram 16 bore load and as far as I am aware Lyalvale Express are the only current manufacture to make one and this is a recent addition.

 

I have not seen any of the new VIP loads for sale either as yet although just cartridges do list them and I would be surprised if the did not already have them in stock.

 

Incidentally, what cartridges have you been using up until now?

 

Cheers

 

Stuart

[Gillaroo]

Have got my local dealer to put some on their next order to Eley although I won't get them until the New Year - hopefully before the end of the season. In terms of old cartridges I don't think I've got many left as I know I've used all the Eleys but I shall have a look. Got some more coming soon but no idea what they are.

 

Most of the time I've been using Express 28g fibre in a 5 but although they are a really good cartridge, they don't fit the bill for the birds I want to shoot. We don't have big days mainly due to the fact that the guns are extremely selective - usually 40 to 50 birds - and the low ones we leave for the youngsters although the joy of high birds has now worn off on my 12 year old. Makes for a proud dad to see him drop a few during the day.

 

All the best

 

Mike

[dougall]

HiI have come to this topic a bit late ...

I occassionally shoot an old 16 gauge,especially early pheasant/partridge days and of course pigeons..

I have found that the gamebore tradional and Hull 3 crowns are pretty mediocre..however in the last couple of years have been using Eley vip 1 oz 6s and whether it is psychological or just my old gun likes these I do not know but | have been massively impressed with these cartridges. On extreme pheasant days I shoot modern o/u and 32g 5s in a 12 bore,for the really challenging stuff I would say the o/u is best,but for good honest/sporting birds the 16 will kill just as well.

My 16 gauge is only proofed to 1 oz,but even if it was'nt I am not sure I would put anymore payload through it. For me ELEY VIPs are now my preferred 16 fodder have you tried these?

ATB,

Dougall

[Gillaroo]

Eleys seem to be the favourite of many game shots using a 16g Dougall.

Are you using the older VIPs or the new re-branded 32g VIPs that used to be the Alphamax?

Cheers

Gillaroo

 

EDIT Just seen it the 1oz load. I've got the new one's on order so will report back once I've used them.

Edited December 22, 2010 by Gillaroo

[dougall]

I'm not sure...bought last lot about 10 months ago from KWG in Handcross.If you are ever going up the A23 near Pease Pottage worth a detour as they have a warehouse stuffed with cartridges...My old William Powell (1908) can only take 1 oz loads so won't go for the 30/32g jobs.

ATB,

Dougall

[Rasher]

The lack of readily available high performance ammunition as well as the cost of what was available was the reason why I decided to sell my Dumoulin 16bore about3 years ago. With a great deal of regret

 

I switched to a O/U 30" 20bore. I find I shoot better and have more choice of cartridges. Win, win IMO

[dodeer]

Rc do a good 1oz load in 5,6,7 shot plastic wads.

[Alycidon]

I have stood next to a guy using a 20 who kills at massive distances using VIP 5s and 4s, unless those birds are consistantly 50 yards plus I would stay with your load of 5s. I use 30gr of 5s through modest chokes in a 12 and can reach 50 yards plus easily if I do my bit.

 

A

[sitsinhedges]

I have stood next to a guy using a 20 who kills at massive distances using VIP 5s and 4s, unless those birds are consistantly 50 yards plus I would stay with your load of 5s. I use 30gr of 5s through modest chokes in a 12 and can reach 50 yards plus easily if I do my bit.

 

A

 

 

How can you still have a viable pattern of 5s thru a modest choke at 50+ yards.

 

Have you ever patterned them because I can see holes in such a pattern at 30yards.

 

At 50 they must be gaping

[farmerjohn]

i have allways had great success with pure gold 4 and 5s at real high pheasant i find any smaller shot will wound and not kill outright i would rather miss than watch one glide half a mile away with no chance of picking up cheers john

[mr salt]

i like 25,26grm loads out off my 16.

 

i have used eley 30 and i think one box was 32grm (my be wrong,i know they were vip)

 

i think the 25 ,26grm through a better pattern.

 

had some rc 5s once kicked alot for what they were but good on high stuff.( rc shot size reads 1/2 smaller i.e 5s in italy are 5 1/2s here).

 

were/are green not blue.

 

i like 20 bore cartridges to be yellow and 16 bore to be blue.(safer that way)

 

16 bore is a great cartridge!

 

scott

[dougall]

Mr Salt ,

hi I believe it is 1/2 the other way ie 5 in Italy is 4/1/2 here.........or 6s on Rc are actually 5 1/2s.....

have not tried rcs in 16 gauge but do like their shells generally.

atb

[fenboy]

Not sure where or if you can get them nowdays but the best 16 guage cartridge I have ever shot was Baschieri and Pellagri (B&P) lovely smooth shell ,high brass, felt wad 29gram came in 5-6-7 shot a very hard hitting cartridge.

[mr salt]

dougall you may be right .

sorry i know there are half shot different anyway.+ or -

cheers scott

[Guest cookoff013]

italy shotsizes are bigger than italian ones by about a half.

 

italian 5 is an english 4.5

[roughshooter]

Surely the 16g is a reason for homeloading???

 

I have loaded lots of 32g shells with remington sp16 wads along with longshot and bluedot powder. Excellent performance.

 

For factory cartridges try the SAGA Gold 28g - lovely smooth cartridge and not many pheasants get by if you put the gun in the right place!

I still have a couple of new old 16g Lee loadalls with the metal bases along with wads by B&P, Gualandi, Remington and some VP80's which will hold 1 1/4oz of lead. Have new cases as well!

Regards

Graham

[matone]

Try RC 28 g 6`s,I`ve seen them used on the best pheasants you get and they work !!!!

[aldivalloch]

Just out of interest, has anyone ever come across a 3 inch chambered 16 bore? I'd be very interested to know the make and configuration.

[mr salt]

have got and used a few saga ,they worked well.

I found they did kick more than three crowns.

(saga are in a red case not blue)6s 28grm

 

I will be using these for a bit on pigeons as they are cheap about £5.00 a box.(25)

instead of the £6.80-£7.50+ on other brands.

 

i understand they also do a 7 28 grm if you wanna go clay shooting.( at about a £5)

 

(i have not used these)

 

if i was paying to shoot pheasants i think i would spend the little extra.

on vip or rc.

 

anyway 16 bores are so nice to shoot.

[busbiter]

I have never seen or heard of a 3' cartridge for a 16 bore, would also be very interested to hear if anyone else has heard of one.

 

I think the manufacturers seem to over look the 16 somewhat, seeing as I only shoot a 16 bore, I would like to see clay loads available in 7 1/2 or 8 shot and also 30 gram game loads more readily available. The eley VIP range could certainly accomodate this jumping from an ounce straight to 32 gram which is a little bit punchy through a 16 if shooting a lot.

 

I have a fairly large quantity of old eley hymax 16's in various shot sizes from the 70's and these still knock down whatever you shoot at very well.