.22 or .177 in FAC for rabbits etc

[TaxiDriver]

Before going any further I'll apologise if this has been done to death before?

 

I'm considering an FAC Air for Rabbit shooting for the pot,

Up until now I've figured on FAC to give me the longer range over a 12ft/lbs and a .22 as having a heavier pellet and hence better stopping power/more sure of a clean kill ?

 

Was in Rayleigh today and was suprised to find the Airgun Centre OPEN, so we stopped in and had a look, (seemed rude not to ) following my train of thought so far I've had in mind the Daystate AirRanger and in particular the Ranger 80 :yes:

The chap in the shop suggests the 40ft/lbs is better as over this there can be a tendency for inaccuracy ? And went onto suggest "if you wanted the 80ft/lbs for longer range, then why not consider going the route of .177" quoting flatter trajectory and less effected by wind as his reasoning.

 

Your input appreciated ? WHY

Edited March 6, 2011 by TaxiDriver

[pabs]

***!! If going the 80ftlb route you should consider the .177!!??

That would be supersonic and then some....

You want 40ftlb tops, in .22. Use Bis' Mags' as the heavy option.

[vampire]

Will watch this one :unsure:

.177 12 flbs for the range,but unsure which is better in fac or how many flbs before it gets loopy trajectory,i would say the one that shoots the furthest .177 and 30flbs but will wait to be corrected by those in the know ,here we go then.

[cooky]

if your going upto 80ftlb you want a heavy pellet and i just dont think 177 will cut it

 

at that power your looking at getting a .25

 

also whats a air arms ranger do you not mean daystate air ranger :good:

[TaxiDriver]

if your going upto 80ftlb you want a heavy pellet and i just dont think 177 will cut it

 

at that power your looking at getting a .25

 

also whats a air arms ranger do you not mean daystate air ranger :good:

Sorry, well spotted my deliberate mistake (just shows who knows their Air weapons)

 

Ok so, I might compromise on something 60ft/lbs IF only I could remember who it was I'd seen listing them

but yes the idea would be to use a heavy FAC pellet for its knock down power which is why I was suprised to hear him suggest .177

[FalconFN]

I've never owned an FAC air rifle so this is just conjecture, but as .177 use more air per pellet than .22 I would think the shot count for a .177 FAC would be fairly low.

 

Also, what range are you expecting to shoot at? FAC will give you more stopping power but I wouldn't have thought you'd be shooting much further than 50 yards very often as the trajectory will still be loopy, if you want to hit longer range targets you'd be better with a rim fire.

 

One other point to think about is that report is louder with a .177 even with a mod fitted - not sure if this would be an issue but it's worth bearing in mind.

 

Good luck.

[barrelsniffer]

If wanting a 60ftlbs rifle why not just get a 22 rimmy ?

 

I have a 30ft rapid in 22 which can and has shot rabbit at 100yds easily with bis magnums but remember the higher in power you go then the less shots per charge you get as for 177 .. forget it go 22 but stick to 30ft power my opinion anyway.

 

Mick

[Catweazle]

There are several very experienced FAC Air shooters over on AirgunBBS who reckon that 32-34ft/lbs in 0.22 is the ultimate accurate, economical, quiet way to go. I wouldn't argue with them, they've been at it for years.

[happyshooter]

I shoot fac air and own and use a .22 mk-1 rqpid @30fpe ,

which is the best power setting for accuracy and impact power

i also use a fac mk-2 rapid .20 @26fpe this gives a flat trajectory with

good assuracy and impact power, amd the best in my arsenal is a .25 rapid @48 fpe

this is the best power for .25 as the accuracy is first class and the H&N Barracuda 31grn pellets

deliver deadly trauma damage. Its not the power output its ACCURACY Thats important

plus antthing with more power is IMHO a waste of air.

atb brian

[fireshot]

I`v 2 Rapids FAC 177&22 177 useing 10.5gr crosman prems at 21flb very nice the 22 useing 18gr exterminaters at 35flb also very nice both have there good points 177 for lamping not much holdover but 22 all other time If I was only going to buy 1 It would be 22 just for the reason that it will sell better than 177 second hand. Love them both but some say a 20 is the best but not much choice in pellets.

[starlord]

i got a rapid 22 at 29 fp and a career707 at 65fp and a sumatra at 71 fp they both leave the rapid for dead ,ita a good gun but the career is much better ,yes wastes air but air is not expensive ,it will always be each to his own ,but if you want the choice go for something 80fp you may find your happy shooting at 40fp but with the career and sumatra you have a choice what to shoot at ,its there if you need it

[bullet boy]

Get .22 in FAC!My Rapid is running @ 22 ft/lbs and is ample enough to shoot and cleanly dispatch Rabbits at 70 yards!That's good enough for me.The more Power your rifle is the less shots per charge you've got.

[Dekers]

Forget the Daystate at 80ft lb in ANY calibre, you will never get two shots at the same power and you will spend more time filling it than using it.

 

If you want a FAC Air Rifle for rabbits then a .22 is the tool, stay between about 20-35ft lb (40ft lb absolute max, but I suggest down a bit), you will have a decent choice of pellets, range, consistancy, accuracy, stopping power and shots per charge.

 

[kent]

If wanting a 60ftlbs rifle why not just get a 22 rimmy ?

 

I have a 30ft rapid in 22 which can and has shot rabbit at 100yds easily with bis magnums but remember the higher in power you go then the less shots per charge you get as for 177 .. forget it go 22 but stick to 30ft power my opinion anyway.

 

Mick

I have the same 30 ft lb rapid and use bis mags. Let me tell you my experiance 100yds is darn near impossible! What it does do is shoot within 1/2" above or below line of sight out to 50 yds and hit hard enough to allow for slightly less spot on the spot clean kills you always require at 12ft lb. it is also very much better on windage than 12 ft lb guns. 1/2" groups are the norm at 50 but when you get past 60-65 yds live quarry is a no go

IMO .177 is a joke at FAC levels as you can only send it 150 fps faster before it goes supersonic. As the speed drops transonic accuraccy goes to heck in a handcart.

If you want a good safe vermin gun to 50 odd yards FAC air is great much past 30 ft lb and the rimfires are way better only side i can see to the 80 ft lb stuff is some police areas don't mind giving all FAC air the nod on first time open conditions viewing them as all the same

[caeser]

I gotta agree with most of the people that have replied to this. I've had FAC 22's up to 40fpe and in my opinion the 30-34 fpe is the max that I would go to now.

If your still after longer range, then go 17HMR.

[Celticranger]

Before going any further I'll apologise if this has been done to death before?

 

I'm considering an FAC Air for Rabbit shooting for the pot,

Up until now I've figured on FAC to give me the longer range over a 12ft/lbs and a .22 as having a heavier pellet and hence better stopping power/more sure of a clean kill ?

 

Was in Rayleigh today and was suprised to find the Airgun Centre OPEN, so we stopped in and had a look, (seemed rude not to ) following my train of thought so far I've had in mind the Daystate AirRanger and in particular the Ranger 80 :yes:

The chap in the shop suggests the 40ft/lbs is better as over this there can be a tendency for inaccuracy ? And went onto suggest "if you wanted the 80ft/lbs for longer range, then why not consider going the route of .177" quoting flatter trajectory and less effected by wind as his reasoning.

 

Your input appreciated ? WHY

Hi there. I have been shooting rifles for almost 60 years. I have used all sorts of Air Rifles and found 22ft llb an ideal power. Over that and it gets inaccurate. .17 is a waste of space, to noisy for Rabbits, one bang and everyone down the hole. .22 I found is better. But, and this is the point, if you cannot hit the target area 9/10 with an on the 12llbs limit air rifle, forget about higher power. I use a rimfire Browning, over 30 years old which is an extension of my arm and is deadly. You can get ammo from 12ftllbs 29ftllbs and more, deadly quiet, accurate, so why go to the trouble of FAC Air Rifle. Hope this helps.

[kent]

Hi there. I have been shooting rifles for almost 60 years. I have used all sorts of Air Rifles and found 22ft llb an ideal power. Over that and it gets inaccurate. .17 is a waste of space, to noisy for Rabbits, one bang and everyone down the hole. .22 I found is better. But, and this is the point, if you cannot hit the target area 9/10 with an on the 12llbs limit air rifle, forget about higher power. I use a rimfire Browning, over 30 years old which is an extension of my arm and is deadly. You can get ammo from 12ftllbs 29ftllbs and more, deadly quiet, accurate, so why go to the trouble of FAC Air Rifle. Hope this helps.

 

I would agree with that 22 ft lb limit on springers but deffo not on PCP's. In fact most .22 pcp's will trounce a .22rf using cb caps and the like on accuraccy which dependant on brand shorts tend to do 25-30 ftlb ish - aint never heard of any doing 12 ft lb. You thoughts were very similar to my own right up untill i actually started to actually use FAC precharged air though

[Celticranger]

I would agree with that 22 ft lb limit on springers but deffo not on PCP's. In fact most .22 pcp's will trounce a .22rf using cb caps and the like on accuraccy which dependant on brand shorts tend to do 25-30 ftlb ish - aint never heard of any doing 12 ft lb. You thoughts were very similar to my own right up untill i actually started to actually use FAC precharged air though

Interesting observation my friend. But I find that a lot of enthusiasts want FAC Air rifle, but in fact are not competent enough to use the extra range. I have used the 12ftllbs rimmys, and they are not that accurate after20-25yards, but are usefull for my type of shooting. The cci 29ftllbs are ok at 50 yards, again usefull. My main ammo is Eley subs, or Rws subs, very very accurate in my browning. In this area, if they are willing to grant an FAC Air rifle, there is no problem gettting a rimmy. And its a lot less expensive to buy a rimmy than an Air Rifle, and if you only have an FAC Air rifle and a farmer wants rats or pigeons cleared out of a barn, problem, because he won't want holes punched through the barn, so back to 12ftllbs.

My rimmy plus my 12ftllb air rifle have sufficed for many years. The secret is to practise every day. At one stage I was using my rifles near enough 7 days a week for 17 years. I have many friends who are weekend shooters, and to be honest there is only one who I would judge competent at 40 yards. Anyway its interesting to see the comments on this sight, makes good reading. Thanks for the reply

[kent]

Interesting observation my friend. But I find that a lot of enthusiasts want FAC Air rifle, but in fact are not competent enough to use the extra range. I have used the 12ftllbs rimmys, and they are not that accurate after20-25yards, but are usefull for my type of shooting. The cci 29ftllbs are ok at 50 yards, again usefull. My main ammo is Eley subs, or Rws subs, very very accurate in my browning. In this area, if they are willing to grant an FAC Air rifle, there is no problem gettting a rimmy. And its a lot less expensive to buy a rimmy than an Air Rifle, and if you only have an FAC Air rifle and a farmer wants rats or pigeons cleared out of a barn, problem, because he won't want holes punched through the barn, so back to 12ftllbs.

My rimmy plus my 12ftllb air rifle have sufficed for many years. The secret is to practise every day. At one stage I was using my rifles near enough 7 days a week for 17 years. I have many friends who are weekend shooters, and to be honest there is only one who I would judge competent at 40 yards. Anyway its interesting to see the comments on this sight, makes good reading. Thanks for the reply

 

Actually the .22rf is almost an everyday tool for me also, the FAC air was bought because i wanted a safer gun to shoot into trees and with a low fall out range / low ricochet risk,initially i bought my HMR for the low ricochet factor believing all the initial hype! to be fair the rapid 7 don't see a fraction of the work the rf gets. However i dont care what skill level someone claims to have i can shoot little bug hole groups with the .22 subs with the cz and bismags in the rapid on my 50 yds range at home, with shorts though hitting a feral in the body at that range would be iffy and a squirrel would be down to luck more than good shooting and thats all down to the ammo. 20-25yds effective IMO and whats the point i would just use my 12ft lb air rifle.

 

One should note that while NEW fac air rifles are big bucks but SECONDHAND they are cheaper than equivellent secondhand rimmies and the ammo is so cheap you don't even think twice about using the stuff up in practice Bis mags cost about £4 for 200 and std stuff is only about £5 per 500- yes thats approx 10% of the cost of std rimfire .22 and you can buy them all over by the thousands if you wish without needing to keep to any allowed numbers

[The jackal 11]

After customising my old MK1 Rapid with a 23" Walther LW barrel and fine tuning it to 34ft/lbs, it was a .22 from hell!!!

 

After studing ballistics and trajectory for around 6 months, and putting theory to practice in the field, I was able to get groupings of 1.5"@ 110 yards.

 

Whilst in the field, I was able to drop crow from elevated tree tops @ 130+ yards with more than a 10MPH crosswind (left to right).

At the distances, rabbits had absolutley no chance in the open fields.

 

There was however one drawback...... Due to the longer barrel, there was some 'lock-time' and to compensate for this it was a bipod gun only.... Taking a standing shot you'd be lucky to hit a barn door!!!

 

I called this gun 'Oswald' due to it's amazing abillity over the long range to successfully drop targets. Truely a great bit of kit.

 

This shows me that perhaps you don't need 60, or 80ft/lbs for reach, this could be obtained by a good 30 odd ft/lbs rapid and a bloody good shooter!!!

 

I'd also like to add that, after shooting various .22 rimmy's with all types of ammo, my Rapid MK1 using Biz Mags out performed them in the field hands down.

 

Am deffinatly bias towards a Rapid, but I'd like to add that knowing you and your guns capabillities are paramount. If I had any advice at all, it would be to get out in the field and practice. There's more to shooting that hitting the target, and don't be afraid of technology.

anemometers, lazar range finders ect. They make life Lot easier whilst practicing, I heist to say that without this help I may not have the skills I have today,

 

Daz

[Dougy]

I must add after reading these posts most of you use bis mags or heavier, well each to there own and yes i know whatever suits you rifle, but you are loosing out on one of the benefits and reasons for going FACair, that is the flatter trajectory,which ables you to extend the range, it does not enable you to increase the quarry size, I know it hasnt been mentioned, i just thought i would.

I used A/Arms field 16.25grn in my R7 for 12years +, taking quarry at 100+ yards without too much effort. FAC air does have its use's, IMO its allot more accurate than most RF 22's. I sold mine and wish i hadnt :(

 

177 will be extremly flat shooting but has far too many dissadvantages, as folk have already stated- poor shot count being the most important.

 

Stick to around 30+ftlb 33 suited my R7 to A/Arms combo nicely..

Edited March 8, 2011 by Dougy

[arjimlad]

I love using my 30 ft lb BSA Super 10 in .22 which I run on a diet of AA Field. I don't go out past 65 yards or so as I am not fully confident with holding over yet. I have also got lovely groups from BSA Interceptor pellets which seems odd as they are hollowpoints.

 

I love the flatter trajectory & decisive kills. Ultimate bunny obedience tool. Point, shoot, bunny lies down.

[kent]

After customising my old MK1 Rapid with a 23" Walther LW barrel and fine tuning it to 34ft/lbs, it was a .22 from hell!!!

 

After studing ballistics and trajectory for around 6 months, and putting theory to practice in the field, I was able to get groupings of 1.5"@ 110 yards.

 

Whilst in the field, I was able to drop crow from elevated tree tops @ 130+ yards with more than a 10MPH crosswind (left to right).

At the distances, rabbits had absolutley no chance in the open fields.

 

There was however one drawback...... Due to the longer barrel, there was some 'lock-time' and to compensate for this it was a bipod gun only.... Taking a standing shot you'd be lucky to hit a barn door!!!

 

I called this gun 'Oswald' due to it's amazing abillity over the long range to successfully drop targets. Truely a great bit of kit.

 

This shows me that perhaps you don't need 60, or 80ft/lbs for reach, this could be obtained by a good 30 odd ft/lbs rapid and a bloody good shooter!!!

 

I'd also like to add that, after shooting various .22 rimmy's with all types of ammo, my Rapid MK1 using Biz Mags out performed them in the field hands down.

 

Am deffinatly bias towards a Rapid, but I'd like to add that knowing you and your guns capabillities are paramount. If I had any advice at all, it would be to get out in the field and practice. There's more to shooting that hitting the target, and don't be afraid of technology.

anemometers, lazar range finders ect. They make life Lot easier whilst practicing, I heist to say that without this help I may not have the skills I have today,

 

Daz

 

[Celticranger]

Actually the .22rf is almost an everyday tool for me also, the FAC air was bought because i wanted a safer gun to shoot into trees and with a low fall out range / low ricochet risk,initially i bought my HMR for the low ricochet factor believing all the initial hype! to be fair the rapid 7 don't see a fraction of the work the rf gets. However i dont care what skill level someone claims to have i can shoot little bug hole groups with the .22 subs with the cz and bismags in the rapid on my 50 yds range at home, with shorts though hitting a feral in the body at that range would be iffy and a squirrel would be down to luck more than good shooting and thats all down to the ammo. 20-25yds effective IMO and whats the point i would just use my 12ft lb air rifle.

 

One should note that while NEW fac air rifles are big bucks but SECONDHAND they are cheaper than equivellent secondhand rimmies and the ammo is so cheap you don't even think twice about using the stuff up in practice Bis mags cost about £4 for 200 and std stuff is only about £5 per 500- yes thats approx 10% of the cost of std rimfire .22 and you can buy them all over by the thousands if you wish without needing to keep to any allowed numbers

I appreciate the points you raised. In the areas I shoot, there are places where the 12ft llb ammo is ok to use, other areas I can use anything, so I only have to carry the rimmy. I only ever go for head shots, the meat is unsellable with bruising around the body. I see you have a .17, how did you find this. I used my friends and found it very accurate, rabbits head shot at close on 200 yards, but the noise I could never put up with. I also found it did richochet, which apparently does not happen [so its claimed] Cheers

[FalconFN]

There seem to be a few claims that a FAC air rifle can take rabbits at 100 yards easily, I'm sure rabbits can and have been taken at 100+ yards, but easily - I don't think so.

 

Even with .22 running at 36 ft/lbs and using Bis Mags the point of imact will vary massively at extened ranges ie: if you zeroed at 70 yards the POI at 100 yards will be 9.5" below, fair enough, it can be done, but the POI at 105 yards is almost 12" below (I've been checking on Chairgun). Considering how difficult it is even to judge much smaller distances to within 5 yards and the fact that the travel time will be extened allowing turbulent air to have it's effect I just don't think it's easy, or for that matter, ethical.

 

In short, to be confident of getting a clean, one-shot kill at 100 yards, assuming the kill zone is around 1", you would have to judge the exact distance to within 1 yard and be confident of windspeed and direction throughtout the entire distance.

 

Not calling anyone a liar, I just think FAC air should be used for it's stopping power and the small extension of range.

 

'Clunk'...That's the sound of me dismounting my high horse.