al4x Posted March 18, 2011 Report Share Posted March 18, 2011 thats because its not the rifle conditions but the expanding ammo conditions Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlieT Posted March 18, 2011 Report Share Posted March 18, 2011 thats because its not the rifle conditions but the expanding ammo conditions Exactly Alex. People are confusing their "rifle" conditions with the standard expanding ammo conditions which state what the Home Office legislate expanding ammo may be used for. One can only shoot what is stated in the rifle conditions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willy1 Posted March 18, 2011 Report Share Posted March 18, 2011 thats because its not the rifle conditions but the expanding ammo conditions What does that mean? Can I legally shoot a rabbit with my .243 whilst out after fox? The farmer, whos land I shoot over has asked me to "take care" of the rabbit problem,does this come under the management of other wildlife? Alan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willy1 Posted March 18, 2011 Report Share Posted March 18, 2011 (edited) After checking my FAC it states.. The certificate holder may possess,purchase or aquire expanding ammunition,or the missiles of such ammunition,in the calibres authorised by this certificate and use only in connection with. the lawful shooting of deer. the shooting of vermin or,in connection with management of any estate,other wildlife. Alan Edited March 18, 2011 by willy1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlieT Posted March 18, 2011 Report Share Posted March 18, 2011 After checking my FAC it states.. The certificate holder may possess,purchase or aquire expanding ammunition,or the missiles of such ammunition,in the calibres authorised by this certificate and use only in connection with. (a) the lawful shooting of deer, (B) the shooting of vermin or, in connection with the management of any estate,other wildlife. Alan Exactly, only refers to the ammo so unless the conditions appertaining to your rifles say you can.............you can't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willy1 Posted March 18, 2011 Report Share Posted March 18, 2011 What a crazy situation,ain't it Alan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted March 18, 2011 Report Share Posted March 18, 2011 What does that mean? Can I legally shoot a rabbit with my .243 whilst out after fox? The farmer, whos land I shoot over has asked me to "take care" of the rabbit problem,does this come under the management of other wildlife? Alan what does it say in relation to the rifle, if it says the .243 rifle may be used for fox and deer then no you can't. However if you have pest control or vermin etc or any legal quarry then you can Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njc110381 Posted March 18, 2011 Report Share Posted March 18, 2011 (edited) After one of the notable psychos let fly at some kids or general public the government in their wisdom decided to make expanding ammunition section 5 rather than section 1. That means every day shooters like us couldn't have it. But then to their surprise it created a problem - you can't shoot Deer and the like with non expanding ammo because it doesn't work very well. So, that muddle of wording was added to give us special allowance for the said section 5 ammo. It's written on every FAC that isn't restricted to target shooting. The bit willy has referred to is in paragraph 6 of the certificate. Your quarry and land restrictions will be in paragraph 5 above that. The whole FAC condition thing is a joke. Personally I think a FAC should be like a SGC but slightly more restricted. You should be able to purchase any firearm up to a maximum muzzle energy, which could be adjusted to suit the individual. So I have .338 Win Mag which would work out to approximately 5000ft-lbs max. If I wanted a .458 mag I couldn't have one but if I wanted a .300, then fine. How sensible would that be?! The number of guns should be limited to the security arrangements, so I could have 9 in total. Shotguns should be on the same certificate in card form, but with lesser control, so we don't have to carry such a wad of tat to show what we may or may not do. Regarding the lawful quarry condition mine states Deer for my largest rifle. I had a very embarrassing conversation with my FEO when I first got the conditions as I misread them. I read the 6.5x55 for Deer, .22 Hornet for Fox etc and had a tantrum. Phoned up on a mission to be told "but you have any other lawful quarry listed sir? So what is your point? You can shoot whatever you want to. Deer, Boar, Fox, Rabbit - even Rats if you're prepered to spend that much money on ammunition!". Edited March 18, 2011 by njc110381 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willy1 Posted March 18, 2011 Report Share Posted March 18, 2011 I've just got off the 'phone to Kent Police Firearms Licencing Department,and the answer to my question (taking into account my certificate cond,no5) can I legally shoot rabbits with my .243?(even if I only have DEER and FOX down for it), was "yes,but,it's a grey area,BASC states,'use the largest calibre suitable for your quarry'" If I do,there would not be any repercussions,but, if I want to,I can send my certificate back and have ANY LAWFULL QUARRY added,as that's what Kent are doing on new certificates. I hope that may help. Alan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorfolkPoacher Posted March 18, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 18, 2011 After one of the notable psychos let fly at some kids or general public the government in their wisdom decided to make expanding ammunition section 5 rather than section 1. That means every day shooters like us couldn't have it. But then to their surprise it created a problem - you can't shoot Deer and the like with non expanding ammo because it doesn't work very well. So, that muddle of wording was added to give us special allowance for the said section 5 ammo. It's written on every FAC that isn't restricted to target shooting. The bit willy has referred to is in paragraph 6 of the certificate. Your quarry and land restrictions will be in paragraph 5 above that. The whole FAC condition thing is a joke. Personally I think a FAC should be like a SGC but slightly more restricted. You should be able to purchase any firearm up to a maximum muzzle energy, which could be adjusted to suit the individual. So I have .338 Win Mag which would work out to approximately 5000ft-lbs max. If I wanted a .458 mag I couldn't have one but if I wanted a .300, then fine. How sensible would that be?! The number of guns should be limited to the security arrangements, so I could have 9 in total. Shotguns should be on the same certificate in card form, but with lesser control, so we don't have to carry such a wad of tat to show what we may or may not do. Regarding the lawful quarry condition mine states Deer for my largest rifle. I had a very embarrassing conversation with my FEO when I first got the conditions as I misread them. I read the 6.5x55 for Deer, .22 Hornet for Fox etc and had a tantrum. Phoned up on a mission to be told "but you have any other lawful quarry listed sir? So what is your point? You can shoot whatever you want to. Deer, Boar, Fox, Rabbit - even Rats if you're prepered to spend that much money on ammunition!". You have my vote mate, the point you raise regarding muzzle energy is a very valid one. I highlighted earlier in this topic that it seems crazy that I can go out and buy a .308 but I cant have a .22hornet unless i complete yet another variation. I think each individual should have an allowance for guns in occordance to there requirements, eg, vermin control day and night, large quarry (deer, boar, goat) hunting and also target shooters. I think an allowance for the largest calibre specified should be enforced then "other legal quarry" to cover lesser species. so if you want to waste money shooting bunnies with a .416 then go for it. Due to trajectory some could argue a faster flatter .22 calibre could be more dangerous then a large, slower, faster dropping calibre with the same bullet type. I personally think all calibres provide individual merit with the obvious attached risks. the law does seem very unclear at times on various wordings and region by region have yet more different rules. if FAC was more like SGC i feel the sales side would benefit as it would allow more flexability changing weapons thus increasing trade. i am a shooter who genuinely likes rifles of all types but with our current law i would have to complete a variation and wait a decade between changing desired calibres so tend to just stick to what i have, there are tonnes of rifle and calibre combos i would love to own but will never have a realistic chance to do so. atb dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorfolkPoacher Posted March 18, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 18, 2011 I've just got off the 'phone to Kent Police Firearms Licencing Department,and the answer to my question (taking into account my certificate cond,no5) can I legally shoot rabbits with my .243?(even if I only have DEER and FOX down for it), was "yes,but,it's a grey area,BASC states,'use the largest calibre suitable for your quarry'" If I do,there would not be any repercussions,but, if I want to,I can send my certificate back and have ANY LAWFULL QUARRY added,as that's what Kent are doing on new certificates. I hope that may help. Alan niceone buddy, it certainly makes more sense. I dont really think over kill is such a word when it comes to vermin control. A soft point .308 does less damage than a b-tip .243 bullet of half the weight. As long as the quarry doesnt suffer unnecessarily go as big as you like. alb Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alex hazeltine Posted November 25, 2017 Report Share Posted November 25, 2017 hi chaps i have a 223 243 308 and a 300 wm all with the any legal quarry on my cert i spoke to the feo and licencing manager about this and it means just that anything it is legal to shoot with that calibre of rifle my pistol however states deer and boar regards chaps Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boristhedog Posted November 25, 2017 Report Share Posted November 25, 2017 1 hour ago, alex hazeltine said: hi chaps i have a 223 243 308 and a 300 wm all with the any legal quarry on my cert i spoke to the feo and licencing manager about this and it means just that anything it is legal to shoot with that calibre of rifle my pistol however states deer and boar regards chaps Are you saying that, in the UK, you have a pistol conditioned to shoot deer and boar??? Humane dispatch? A few more details might be useful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluesj Posted November 25, 2017 Report Share Posted November 25, 2017 7 minutes ago, Boristhedog said: Are you saying that, in the UK, you have a pistol conditioned to shoot deer and boar??? Humane dispatch? A few more details might be useful. Not sure what alex's fac says but a friend has a hand gun that is conditioned "for the humane dispatch of deer". mine are just "fior humane dispatch". my area don't condition rifles for humane dispatch but do ad AOLQ so covered by that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alex hazeltine Posted November 26, 2017 Report Share Posted November 26, 2017 hi chaps i have a 223 243 308 and a 300 wm all with the any legal quarry on my cert i spoke to the feo and licencing manager about this and it means just that anything it is legal to shoot with that calibre of rifle my pistol however states deer and boar regards chaps hi guys sorry for confusion my cert says the 357 pistol shall be used in connection with the humane dispatch of deer and wild boar and other wounded or injured animals thanks chaps Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShootingEgg Posted November 26, 2017 Report Share Posted November 26, 2017 On 17/03/2011 at 11:23, CharlieT said: Wild boar need to be named specifically and therefore Deer and OLQ would not cover the shooting of wild boar. Yet there is no legal requirement on rifle for boar, they only advice 270. Not like deer stating it has to be 243 or higher. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beardo Posted November 26, 2017 Report Share Posted November 26, 2017 .220 1000 Ft/Pd or higher for Muntjac or CWD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clodhopper Posted November 27, 2017 Report Share Posted November 27, 2017 Years ago my father had a renewal come back with the condition for ' Human Dispatch '. Licensing dept. requested it be returned and ammended it in double quick time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walshie Posted November 27, 2017 Report Share Posted November 27, 2017 On 3/18/2011 at 09:28, willy1 said: After checking my FAC it states.. The certificate holder may possess,purchase or aquire expanding ammunition,or the missiles of such ammunition,in the calibres authorised by this certificate and use only in connection with. the lawful shooting of deer. the shooting of vermin or,in connection with management of any estate,other wildlife. Alan But there's no expanding ammo conditions on anyone's tickets since May. So any conditions apply to the rifle, not the ammo now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted November 27, 2017 Report Share Posted November 27, 2017 As boar have been mentioned and simply out of interest, is there any obligation in the UK to report an anaimal which was wounded and not recovered? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fruity Posted November 27, 2017 Report Share Posted November 27, 2017 No Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlieT Posted November 27, 2017 Report Share Posted November 27, 2017 15 hours ago, ShootingEgg said: Yet there is no legal requirement on rifle for boar, they only advice 270. Not like deer stating it has to be 243 or higher. A lot has changed in the 5 years since this thread was started. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walshie Posted November 27, 2017 Report Share Posted November 27, 2017 3 minutes ago, CharlieT said: A lot has changed in the 5 years since this thread was started. Only just noticed that. lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShootingEgg Posted November 27, 2017 Report Share Posted November 27, 2017 10 minutes ago, CharlieT said: A lot has changed in the 5 years since this thread was started. Did not see that it was 5 yr old thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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