CharlieT Posted March 16, 2011 Report Share Posted March 16, 2011 MC Back when I was a small Charlie T long before phesants had been invented wildfowling was my passion. I passed my driving test in 1962 and a pal and I used to go up to the Wash for weekends and that great scoundrel Kenzie Thorpe would act as our guide. A few years later we used to rent some land on the Ouse washes that produced some wonderful sport. So yes I know where you are coming from. Charlie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anser2 Posted March 16, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 16, 2011 (edited) CharleyT and what part of my post was as you say was beyond the pale ? I have a very real idea of the real world. I work in conservation , deal with game shooting and farming interests , have been involved with canada goose control for many years and never needed to kill them in the breeding season. If you have a canada problem. the answer is simple. Bird scaring rockets work very well . Not just scaring them off the field , but out of the parish if used correctly and repeated 3-4 times. If the overall numbers are too high in the area then sporting shooting in the wildfowling season will soon redice their numbers to a manageable level. One estate where I was doing research the landowner had to pay the tenant farmer for is loss of drilled and fresh sprouting corn and on one I recently shot in the Fens the farmer hated pheasants and would not have them on his land. As I said one pheasant is no problem , a hundred can be if certain crops are being grown. Ask any farmer who grows salad crops what he thinks of pheasants. I am not proposing any pheasant control merely pointing out they are an introduced species and can do damage to crops and wildlife. recent research has shown that pheasants in high density can have a severe impact of invertebrate populations of butterflies and grasshoppers along with others. So clearly Canada geese are in the same bracket as pheasants. Of course I like to think of wildfowling to be the hunting of ducks and geese in wild places ( not just below the tide line ) , but in reality anyone who shoots by definition becomes a wildfowler . Quote from dictionary "Wildfowler - Waterfowl hunting (also called duck hunting, goose hunting, or wildfowling) is the practice of hunting ducks, geese, or other waterfowl for food and sport ." You are so right gsm and putting them back on the quarry list with the proviso of a special licence to control them when needed will allow this to happen without cowboys bringing shooting into disrepute. Edited March 16, 2011 by anser2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mudpatten Posted March 16, 2011 Report Share Posted March 16, 2011 I think that by now, the penny will have dropped that certain of the contributors to this discussion hold a rabidly and irrationally anti BASC viewpoint. This discussion has been started by wildfowlers. Wildfowlers are affiliated to BASC therefore by misrepresenting and attacking both wildfowlers and the sentiments expressed, BASC can be attacked by proxy. For some, as with other threads,this debate uses canadas and the ethics of their control as a smokescreen for the real purpose of denigrating BASC and the wildfowling community at any and every opportunity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piebob Posted March 16, 2011 Report Share Posted March 16, 2011 recent research has shown that pheasants in high density can have a severe impact of invertebrate populations of butterflies and grasshoppers along with others. So clearly Canada geese are in the same bracket as pheasants. Sorry, but I don't think it's clear at all. It needs much more analysis. One could equally argue that the only reason there were good populations of butterflies and grasshoppers is because of the cover crops planted for the pheasants. Do you believe that wildfowling brings in as much to the UK economy as pheasant shoots/pheasant shooting? I don't know the figures but I suspect I know the answer. So again, I think comparisons are wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC Posted March 16, 2011 Report Share Posted March 16, 2011 What something brings to the economy is irrelevant. If releasing tame pheasants is causing a problem to farmers then they are no better than the Canada goose. There would be uproar of biblical proportions if someone was to suggest that pheasants were put on the OGL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC Posted March 16, 2011 Report Share Posted March 16, 2011 You could also argue that modern farming methods were responsible for the decline of the butterflies and grasshoppers in the first place. Although I suspect that was probably the fault of the wildfowlers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Duncan Posted March 16, 2011 Report Share Posted March 16, 2011 you could say pheasants are non native and alot of british wildlife suffer because of them, andrew What british wildlife suffers because of the canada geese? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekers Posted March 16, 2011 Report Share Posted March 16, 2011 (edited) Hasn't this subject been round and round? There may be a shortage in numerous wildfowling areas for the simple reason these geese are now largely resident, and resident Inland, so I fail to see how doing anything with the GL is going to help wildfowlers get some sport! Sorry guys, there is no shortage round my way, I have two bagged up outside my back door now! Edited March 16, 2011 by Dekers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted March 16, 2011 Report Share Posted March 16, 2011 The revenue gathered by 'Game bird' shooting is anything but irrelevant.Huge sums are involved,and modern farming methods may be responsible for the decline in flora and fauna of many types,but modern farming methods were brought about by demand for produce,by us....the consumers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pigeonstool Posted March 17, 2011 Report Share Posted March 17, 2011 My earlier post mentioned that "dabbling" ducks CANNOT reach their food; vegetation IN THE water, because the geese , with longer necks, eat it all, they then poo and de-oxygenate the pond/lake .. which also destroys the margins and scare off the ducks by nesting where the little ducks used to. So they denude the ponds and lakes of plant life > then the insects go > then the aquatic life goes > and so do the ducks and reed birds > What british wildlife suffers because of the canada geese? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
39TDS Posted March 17, 2011 Report Share Posted March 17, 2011 Ask any farmer who grows salad crops what he thinks of pheasants. I grow cabbage for a living amongst other things. I would say that this winter pheasants probably did more damage to my crops than pigeons. There are thousands of geese around here and the only damage they have done to me is to **** on me as I admired them flying over. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave-G Posted March 17, 2011 Report Share Posted March 17, 2011 I think that by now, the penny will have dropped that certain of the contributors to this discussion hold a rabidly and irrationally anti BASC viewpoint. This discussion has been started by wildfowlers. Wildfowlers are affiliated to BASC therefore by misrepresenting and attacking both wildfowlers and the sentiments expressed, BASC can be attacked by proxy. For some, as with other threads,this debate uses canadas and the ethics of their control as a smokescreen for the real purpose of denigrating BASC and the wildfowling community at any and every opportunity. You have a vivid imagination my friend. I for example, am pro BASC but that doesn't make me think it's ok for wildfowl shooters to object to general quarry shooters lawfully copping an occasional goose with a precision shot of a rifle while protecting private land and crop from them. Someone made a very good point earlier in the thread: Some geese have wised up and moved to inland pastures new rather than be shot at on the coast. If they are shot off inland pastures as pests through the year many would return to the coast again, at least for the closed season. End result is that farmer no longer has to provide feed to fatten the geese without payment for fowlers to shoot for free. Here's another idea - no charge for this one either: Why don't the 'fowlers form inland fowling syndicates and pay farmers to wildfowl over their crops which could pay for the damage they cause? If farmers can make a profit from it - as they generally do from game birds its an all round win. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Kelly Posted March 17, 2011 Report Share Posted March 17, 2011 Here's another idea - no charge for this one either: Why don't the 'fowlers form inland fowling syndicates and pay farmers to wildfowl over their crops which could pay for the damage they cause? If farmers can make a profit from it - as they generally do from game birds its an all round win. Because they might have to do it outside the fowling season to be effective? That smacks of pest control which they couldn't possibly lower themselves to! :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mudpatten Posted March 17, 2011 Report Share Posted March 17, 2011 Brilliant idea mate.I suggested it in an earlier thread.I am currently actively seeking through appropriate media to obtain inland sporting canada goose shooting for a reputable club, for payment, from the farming community within a fifty mile radius of Portsmouth. Thus far completely without success.I wonder why that is? And can we please knock this idea on the head that canadas have been driven from the coast by wildfowlers.They were originally introduced to inland parks and in their natural habitat are inland rather than coastal birds.True they occur on coastal marshes but their currently favouring their natural and prefferred inland habitat has nothing to do with the evil wildfowling community. It is also obvious from many posts that people are failing to read the original suggestion and are becoming increasingly hysterical about something that has not been suggested. Please read it again carefully. No one wants to stop the legitimate control of canadas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Kelly Posted March 17, 2011 Report Share Posted March 17, 2011 No one wants to stop the legitimate control of canadas. Just to make it unnecessarily awkward! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC Posted March 17, 2011 Report Share Posted March 17, 2011 Just to make it unnecessarily awkward! How did you get on a few years ago? I bet the thought of shooting a canada goose out of season never crossed your mind. Now they are on the OGL you want to kill every one of them. How would you control cormorant if you were asked to by your beloved farmers? Or brent geese come to that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekers Posted March 17, 2011 Report Share Posted March 17, 2011 Come on guys..this is never going to get anywhere, there is an obvious divide between coastal wildfowlers and inland pest control! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC Posted March 17, 2011 Report Share Posted March 17, 2011 Come on guys..this is never going to get anywhere, there is an obvious divide between coastal wildfowlers and inland pest control! Can I ask what the two outside your back door were doing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Kelly Posted March 17, 2011 Report Share Posted March 17, 2011 How did you get on a few years ago? I bet the thought of shooting a canada goose out of season never crossed your mind. Now they are on the OGL you want to kill every one of them. How would you control cormorant if you were asked to by your beloved farmers? Or brent geese come to that? Never shot one out of season, only on coastal fowling trips. I don't believe they're being shot in dangerous numbers out of season. It shouldn't take much shooting pressure to more them off an area where they're causing damage at any time of year. I think this is a lot of hot air about nothing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave-G Posted March 17, 2011 Report Share Posted March 17, 2011 Seems to be a thread about anyone other than 'proper fowlers shooting their birds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC Posted March 17, 2011 Report Share Posted March 17, 2011 Not at all, It is a thread about responsible shooters not wanting the "KILL EM ALL" brigade shooting birds for no reason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted March 17, 2011 Report Share Posted March 17, 2011 Its interesting this perception wildfowlers have of people killing all their canadas out of season. Obviously the numbers show the decline isn't really happening but does it actually happen much, I know we trim a few up during the season when they are clobbering the ducks food but nothing out of season. Is it the RSPB and professional pest controllers that are the "culprits" or do hobby shooters really shoot many. Be interesting who on here does shoot them outside of the traditional season Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave-G Posted March 17, 2011 Report Share Posted March 17, 2011 Al4x makes a very good point - it might be usefull to identify the kill em all group being referred to in this particliar thread to clarify things a bit more in light of the savaging a few members have had in the past regarding.22lr/HMR/headshot threads. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekers Posted March 17, 2011 Report Share Posted March 17, 2011 (edited) Can I ask what the two outside your back door were doing? Creating a H&S issue at a Golf Club, the Club also has Natural England consent for Greylag and Egyptian to! Edit To put this in perspective the Golf Club has 5 main lakes and a VERY large population of geese with a handful of ducks. They leave monstrous amounts of doings in all the wrong places. I got involved a couple of years ago when the waterman need mentoring for HMR to deal with the geese on land. They now predominantly deal with them, Shotgun in flight as well if possible/required, and I get down from time to time! There is nothing sporting about this at all it is 100% Pest Control. The ethics of Pest Control are open to a lot of debate, suffice to say the golfers and the Club are VERY VERY happy with the results being achieved! Edited March 17, 2011 by Dekers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anser2 Posted March 21, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 21, 2011 (edited) Quote “Someone made a very good point earlier in the thread: Some geese have wised up and moved to inland pastures new rather than be shot at on the coast.” Wrong, as Mudpatten says canadas have always been more of an inland species rather than a coastal one. They have never been a major coastal quarry for wildfowlers with the exception of possibly a few south coast sites. Canadas have always been the inland fowlers goose. Quote “why don't the 'fowlers form inland fowling syndicates and pay farmers to wildfowl over their crops which could pay for the damage they cause? “ Not all wildfowling clubs are on the coast. There are at least four in my area that are inland And there is a very large one in leciestershire , and thats as about as far from the coast as you can get. I was on club ground inland while undertaking management work at the weekend and we had 20 on the marsh ( the most I have seen this year so far, we used to see them in thousands at some sites ) but all of the fowlers present had too much respect for the geese to think of shooting one at this time of year. Al4x I would suggest that your data for canada numbers is out of date and it does not reflect the position in the East of England taken after the birds came onto the GL list.webs count data is usualy 3 years old. County reports are much more up to date. Piebob cover crops are rarely good sites for butterfly catterpilars , grasshoppers or any insects. The declines have been found in old grass meadows and in woodland , where pheasants have been released in high density. The problems have been found in the first couple of months following release. Once mature pheasants go onto a more plant based diet. Just to get it clear the changes wildfowlers are looking for is canadas be returned to the " normal season "with the proviso that a licence can be quickly applied for if control is needed. That should keep the " pest controlers " Happy as well as those who have respect for our quarry species while at the same time stopping the cowboy eliment who just want to shot something. Edited March 21, 2011 by anser2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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