Cartridges

[bone]

Hi can any one tell me what the differance is between winchester trap 100, 200, 300 cartridges, they are all 7 1/2 32grm load.I have just been given them by a friend who has now stopped shooting.

[Beretta28g]

F/S Speed id have thought.

[Mr Potter]

Hi can any one tell me what the differance is between winchester trap 100, 200, 300 cartridges, they are all 7 1/2 32grm load.I have just been given them by a friend who has now stopped shooting.

I remember these cartridges very well, the Winchester range of carts were probably the most populars shells on the market in the late 70's through to the early 90's (someone like 100milesaway, GordonR, Catamong or beretta would be able to give a more accurate date range)

The Trap 200's were probably the most popular of the range and like all the manufacturers they produced a range to suit peoples pockets, starting with the 100's for the "club" shooter, the 200 for the serious competition shooter to the 300 for the championship & Olympic shooter.

Am absolutely certain the numbers had nothing to do with the speed, they were just sequential numbers to show the progression, if they had brought out an even better shell to win gold medals at said championships and Olympics they would have branded it the 400

Although the Winchester name is an iconic American one, these carts were manufactured in Italy (so your 7 1/2's are actually English size 7) Again if my memory serves me well they came in slabs of 500 (20 boxes). There were others in the Winchester range such as Winners, these were used & advertised by a legend in Sporting circles, (the late)A J "Smoker" Smith. There was also a Winchester "Blue" and a "Silver", ask 100milesaway (Auntie) about Winchester Silvers she's fired plenty of them

 

Can't remember why they faded away it could have been at the time of the switch to 28g loads but that is purely a guess but I'm sure someone on the forum will remember the real reason for the demise of a very popular and successful brand and range.

 

Mr Potter

[Harnser]

The compression formed cases were very sort after by reloaders . Shot thousands of them ,a very good shell .

 

Harnser .

[dave1419]

I used to use the Trap 100s for all my shooting,be it clays,game or pigeon shooting-Top hard hitting cartridge for all use's,if i could get some i would buy them without doubt.Pity as i have never seen them for years.

[VicW]

When I came back to shooting about eight years ago,Winchesters were available then but were of poor quality.I am told that the Italian manufacturers changed factories and then had quality control problems.

The main problem was low set primers and hence misfires.I bought one load and had so many misfires I got my money back.

A sad end to a great cartridge.I think they are still available in the US.

 

Vic.

Edited June 5, 2011 by VicW

[magman]

Miss the Winchester range from trap 100 to classics and rangers even super speed

 

Love to be able to buy them again

[dodeer]

The compression cased "Western" 32g was a super shell. Wish I'd bought a pallet of them now...

[fenboy]

oooooh winchester cartridges my all time favourites,not all were made in italy I was given around 600 winchester ranger cartridges that date from the mid to late 70s I was informed and they clearly state on the boxes made in america,30 years old at least and they still shoot really well ,they are a litttle dirtier than more modern varietys though,I still use winchester when i can and for the last year have been using winchester GB'S 30g 6.5 they are loaded in italy but are a very good cartridge unfortunatly my supply of these has come to a end and I am down to my last 800 or so.

Spot on that the trap 100 ,200,300 use to be sought after for reloading along with the cases from remington,they had a seven star crimp rather than the standard six which made reloading much neater.

[Whitebridges]

Hi can any one tell me what the differance is between winchester trap 100, 200, 300 cartridges, they are all 7 1/2 32grm load.I have just been given them by a friend who has now stopped shooting.

 

If they're really old there is a chance they might be 32g which used to be the standard trap load. Best to check as most grounds limit loads to 28g nowadays.

[Hamster]

Hi can any one tell me what the differance is between winchester trap 100, 200, 300 cartridges, they are all 7 1/2 32grm load.I have just been given them by a friend who has now stopped shooting.

 

If these are the early ones from the late 80`s onwards, then they are some of the best shells ever to have found their way onto the clay scene. The 100 Traps were by and large the most popular as they came in cheapest and probably loaded with 3% antimony with single based powder but they were awsome on clays and pigeon nontheless.

The Trap 200`s were dearer and I believe loaded with harder 5% antimony and double based powder (this apparently helps with hot/cold shooting characterisitcs). I very rarely shot these but seem to recall they kicked marginally more so may well have been a touch faster.

 

I can`t even remember the 300 range though but if they were meant for top flight Olympics etc, then the chances are they would have been slower than the 200`s with the same if not higher antimony content. Wisdom was that slower (less recoil) aided 2nd shot recovery.

 

It`s worth remembering that they are actually 2.4mm English 7`s so entirely satisfactory on decoyed pigeon .

 

I`d love to buy a few boxes off you , whereabouts in Kent are you based?

[Tiger955i]

I have thought you find a brand and stick with it. Rc Sipe seem to work well for me, should do at the price lol. There are some brands I can not hit anything with. Whilst I am sure this is mostly in the mind there are also some which just do not pattern well in some guns.

 

ATB

[Gordon R]

I shot many thousands of the Winchester 100s and 200s, plus a few Winners. Excellent shells, which were a reloaders delight and cycled through autos better than any other shell at that time - in my opinion. The high brass on the 200s was relatively unusual at the time.

 

Shame they are no longer available.

[Mr Potter]

If they're really old there is a chance they might be 32g which used to be the standard trap load. Best to check as most grounds limit loads to 28g nowadays.

 

I'd read the original post thoroughly Whitebridges, the clue to the shot weight lies between the "7 1/2" and the "load"

 

but you are correct some grounds, even straw balers, limit the shot weight and occasionally the size as in "max shot size 6" but as I said in my post on this thread they are Italian 7 1/2's which are an English size 7 so they are, IMHO, suitable for decoying pigeon out to about 30/35 yards if the OP's local clay grounds won't allow them.

 

Mr Potter

[Whitebridges]

Mr Potter, I enjoyed reading your post in response to the OP. There is no real reason to respond on the suitablity of these cartridges for pigeon shooting is there? BTW i'm well versed on the UK vrs Euro vrs USA shot sizes.If the shells in question happen to be 32g (they may well be 28g) then he might like to check the boxes and at least be aware.

[Hamster]

If you don`t want to use them for clays, sell them to me .

[Mr Potter]

Hi can any one tell me what the differance is between winchester trap 100, 200, 300 cartridges, they are all 7 1/2 32grm load.I have just been given them by a friend who has now stopped shooting.

 

 

Mr Potter, I enjoyed reading your post in response to the OP. There is no real reason to respond on the suitablity of these cartridges for pigeon shooting is there? BTW i'm well versed on the UK vrs Euro vrs USA shot sizes.If the shells in question happen to be 32g (they may well be 28g) then he might like to check the boxes and at least be aware.

Whitebridges,

 

I was trying in my second post to subtly point out that the OP had told us the shot weight in his first post (#1) but you obviously missed it(twice), it was obviously well hidden between the 7 1/2 and the word load.

I then went on to agree with you that some clay grounds may not allow them but that as an alternative, the OP could use them for pigeon shooting. I reiterated the shot size as I personally don't agree with decoying pigeons with 7 1/2's but that 32g of 7's is a suitable load.

 

Mr Potter

[Whitebridges]

Whitebridges,

 

I was trying in my second post to subtly point out that the OP had told us the shot weight in his first post (#1) but you obviously missed it(twice), it was obviously well hidden between the 7 1/2 and the word load.

I then went on to agree with you that some clay grounds may not allow them but that as an alternative, the OP could use them for pigeon shooting. I reiterated the shot size as I personally don't agree with decoying pigeons with 7 1/2's but that 32g of 7's is a suitable load.

 

Mr Potter

 

Mr Potter, perhaps the word you are looking for is "subtlety"?

My eyes do not deceive, not least my screen prints. The original post and those thereafter did not make reference to the load of the cartridge. Long gone are the days when we had "post amended" appended to posts that change PW, those days are gone.

I have no reason to get in to a debate about this Mr Potter but don't come the **** with me.

There really isn't a point to argue as far as i'm concerned because I agree with everything you've posted you.... :P

Edited June 6, 2011 by Whitebridges

[Mr Potter]

Mr Potter, perhaps the word you are looking for is "subtlety"?

My eyes do not deceive, not least my screen prints. The original post and those thereafter did not make reference to the load of the cartridge. Long gone are the days when we had "post amended" appended to posts that change PW, those days are gone.

I have no reason to get in to a debate about this Mr Potter but don't come the **** with me.

Whitebridges,

 

I never have, nor had any desire to come the **** with you and this will possibly be my last post on this topic but, in order;

 

No, I did mean subtly.

 

The original post did have the load of the cartridge on (but that's my memory v your screen print!) and I think (not 100% certain & can't be ***** checking) that if a post is amended it is only the OP or a moderator who can do that and if the OP does it the "post amended" thingy still appears at the bottom.

 

If the OP wants to confirm that he posted the load originally that is up to him. If I've got it wrong and he did amend post #1 after your post I will post on this thread just one more time and that to offer my sincere apologies.

 

As I think we both agree with what each other has said with regard to loads & shot size and it's suitability for clays or pigeons and that many grounds will not allow loads greater that 28g etc etc we should let this rest. To be honest I only posted originally on this thread as the t*t who posted #2 suggested that the numbering sequence was possibly the speed in F/S - For ****'* sake

 

Mr Potter

[Gordon R]

Mr Potter - very subtle and very restrained. You are a gentleman. :good:

[scolopax]

Ahhhh, Winchester shells,

 

Winnie XX for the ten bore, 2¼ oz of buffered copper coated lead BB's, they could pluck geese down from the very heavens.

 

One September evening I shot my very first duck with a Winchester X 12 bore load, 36 grm of 5's I think, it was over a field of laid wheat in the fog. I've still got a box or two of Winchester 4's for the February hare drives.

[bone]

Thanks to everybody for your replies and useful information. Just for the record gents, my original post stated 32grm load and this has not been amended.

If I dont get on with these cartridges I shall let you have them Hamster!

[Azzurri]

I remember these cartridges very well, the Winchester range of carts were probably the most populars shells on the market in the late 70's through to the early 90's (someone like 100milesaway, GordonR, Catamong or beretta would be able to give a more accurate date range)

The Trap 200's were probably the most popular of the range and like all the manufacturers they produced a range to suit peoples pockets, starting with the 100's for the "club" shooter, the 200 for the serious competition shooter to the 300 for the championship & Olympic shooter.

Am absolutely certain the numbers had nothing to do with the speed, they were just sequential numbers to show the progression, if they had brought out an even better shell to win gold medals at said championships and Olympics they would have branded it the 400

Although the Winchester name is an iconic American one, these carts were manufactured in Italy (so your 7 1/2's are actually English size 7) Again if my memory serves me well they came in slabs of 500 (20 boxes). There were others in the Winchester range such as Winners, these were used & advertised by a legend in Sporting circles, (the late)A J "Smoker" Smith. There was also a Winchester "Blue" and a "Silver", ask 100milesaway (Auntie) about Winchester Silvers she's fired plenty of them

 

Hi Mr P,

 

Great post

 

"Can't remember why they faded away it could have been at the time of the switch to 28g loads but that is purely a guess but I'm sure someone on the forum will remember the real reason for the demise of a very popular and successful brand and range".

 

I used to use Silvers and a few Winner 8s and it was indeed a sad day when supplies dried up

 

From memory York Guns used to bring them in.I did ask York Guns about 5 years ago as to why they didn't bring them in anymore and they said the price for them to buy them was crazy,and that was before the recent price hikes even started :o :o

 

I remember one time i took 12,000 Silvers as part payment for some work,happy days

 

 

Azzurri.

[Gordon R]

Was it not the cost of the cases - they were one piece compression formed, rather than the parallel tubes that almost all modern shells are made from?

[Hamster]

Was it not the cost of the cases - they were one piece compression formed, rather than the parallel tubes that almost all modern shells are made from?

 

Spot on, yes it was largely to do with that and also I believe the factory changed hands once too many times. They actually started selling Trap 100`s again some 10-15 years ago and they were very nearly as good save for the fact they were 28 gram and the prices were actually a tiny bit lower than other brands at the time but again the compression formed case forced them into changing to a more conventional case. These were pants. I have a handful of the 28 gram version saved somewhere.