Davy Holt Posted June 26, 2011 Author Report Share Posted June 26, 2011 (edited) It's great how some like to make a mountain out of a mole hill it's hardly surprising many people don't post on here when you read some of the **** spouted from the ivory towers I never see anyone being slated for shooting pigeons over clover, stubble, roosting, flight lines, manure heaps they are hardly classed as crop protection are they ? oh but wait it's ok cause they are shot using shot guns... duh forgot that. Oh and that's right you cant do the same damage to them with shotguns can you if they happen to be a bit close when you hit them. Vipa.. you don't know me, or where I shoot or why I shoot so please stop making assumptions about me or what I did or didn't do. The only things I shoot for fun are clays and paper targets at the range everything else is for a valid reason. for I think it was Alex the photo was taken at 90 degrees to the line of the shot which in the picture was right to left. Edited June 26, 2011 by Davy Holt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vipa Posted June 26, 2011 Report Share Posted June 26, 2011 It's great how some like to make a mountain out of a mole hill it's hardly surprising many people don't post on here when you read some of the **** spouted from the ivory towers I never see anyone being slated for shooting pigeons over clover, stubble, roosting, flight lines, manure heaps they are hardly classed as crop protection are they ? oh but wait it's ok cause they are shot using shot guns... duh forgot that. Oh and that's right you cant do the same damage to them with shotguns can you if they happen to be a bit close when you hit them. Vipa.. you don't know me, or where I shoot or why I shoot so please stop making assumptions about me or what I did or didn't do. The only things I shoot for fun are clays and paper targets at the range everything else is for a valid reason. for I think it was Alex the photo was taken at 90 degrees to the line of the shot which in the picture was right to left. Not making anything out of anything mate... You are now the one getting hot and bothered, not me! I was just expressing an opinion but it seems that is frowned upon.. If you don't want criticism don't post pictures of gratuitous, pointless killing. On the other hand, if you feel that your picture and description wasn't gratuitous, pointless killing, then get it back up... You must have felt that it was wrong to have taken it down so quickly in the first place... doesn't affect me either way. I have never seen pigeons flocking to feed on a manure heap, flight lines tend to be the best places to ambush pigeons no matter what the crop being shot over, roost shooting is good for clearing big numbers of birds and tends to take place on arable land to rid a good number of birds and stop them hammering the crops the next day... and the next day... The same goes for stubble... One woodie with a centre fire is mindless, pointless, shows no respect and the only reason it was done is because it presented itself as something to shoot! You then gloated about the damage you had inflicted with a lovely picture that was reminiscent of a massacre and a description that was only concerned with the scale of damage done... What do you expect.... a pat on the back If you had produced a photo of a bag of a couple of dozen you had shot with your 'triple' then I may have accepted it as a rather expensive and eccentric method of pest control, after all, there is plenty of air rifle pigeon shooting goes on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrispti Posted June 26, 2011 Report Share Posted June 26, 2011 (edited) Not making anything out of anything mate... You are now the one getting hot and bothered, not me! I was just expressing an opinion but it seems that is frowned upon.. If you don't want criticism don't post pictures of gratuitous, pointless killing. On the other hand, if you feel that your picture and description wasn't gratuitous, pointless killing, then get it back up... You must have felt that it was wrong to have taken it down so quickly in the first place... doesn't affect me either way. I have never seen pigeons flocking to feed on a manure heap, flight lines tend to be the best places to ambush pigeons no matter what the crop being shot over, roost shooting is good for clearing big numbers of birds and tends to take place on arable land to rid a good number of birds and stop them hammering the crops the next day... and the next day... The same goes for stubble... One woodie with a centre fire is mindless, pointless, shows no respect and the only reason it was done is because it presented itself as something to shoot! You then gloated about the damage you had inflicted with a lovely picture that was reminiscent of a massacre and a description that was only concerned with the scale of damage done... What do you expect.... a pat on the back If you had produced a photo of a bag of a couple of dozen you had shot with your 'triple' then I may have accepted it as a rather expensive and eccentric method of pest control, after all, there is plenty of air rifle pigeon shooting goes on. I have been out rough shooting before and only managed one pigeon. I hit it hard and as a result it was not worth processing for the table. Do you consider that mindless, pointless and disrespectful also Edited June 26, 2011 by chrispti Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
highseas Posted June 26, 2011 Report Share Posted June 26, 2011 this could be a good 10 pager Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrispti Posted June 26, 2011 Report Share Posted June 26, 2011 (edited) It's great how some like to make a mountain out of a mole hill it's hardly surprising many people don't post on here when you read some of the **** spouted from the ivory towers I never see anyone being slated for shooting pigeons over clover, stubble, roosting, flight lines, manure heaps they are hardly classed as crop protection are they ? oh but wait it's ok cause they are shot using shot guns... duh forgot that. Oh and that's right you cant do the same damage to them with shotguns can you if they happen to be a bit close when you hit them. Vipa.. you don't know me, or where I shoot or why I shoot so please stop making assumptions about me or what I did or didn't do. The only things I shoot for fun are clays and paper targets at the range everything else is for a valid reason. for I think it was Alex the photo was taken at 90 degrees to the line of the shot which in the picture was right to left. Put the original post back up mate. You have no legal issues to worry about, just a few people who dont agree with your post Edited June 26, 2011 by chrispti Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mpk Posted June 26, 2011 Report Share Posted June 26, 2011 I would also like to see the original post you have nothing to worry about ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheJim Posted June 26, 2011 Report Share Posted June 26, 2011 I think a good flogging is in order here how dare he put a picture and a tounge in cheek comment like that up he's probably the antichrist to give the guy a break Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artschool Posted June 26, 2011 Report Share Posted June 26, 2011 has anyone stopped to think about it from the pigeons perspective? would it prefer to be pricked at 40yards with a shotgun or hit with a .222 round? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marmitemania Posted June 26, 2011 Report Share Posted June 26, 2011 Im coming in on this debate a bit late I know, I fully understand what Vipa is saying about killing for the sake of it, I to do not get a thrill out of the actual kill, but as said the process and effort leading up to it are the biggest part of it for me, dont get me wrong its very satisfying to have a clean kill with the bird folded in the air from a good range, but I make sure everything I shoot which is not vast amounts is always eaten. I thought that was some of the point of shooting, and I dont think you could eat a pigeon thats in hundreds of pieces. I hope I did not come across as Pious in this post, if thats what you want to do its up to you, I personally do not care as long as its killed humanely in this case it most definitely was, as said its better than being winged and having to pull its neck which whilst I sometimes have to do it I can find it a little distresing sometimes if the bird is in a bad way. My view with shooting is I or someone will always eat what I have shot, I very nearly shot a rabbit yesterday (but I dont eat them and dads away on holiday, so despite stroking the trigger on a definte kill I had second thoughs and the rabbit lived to see another day, Each to their own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vipa Posted June 26, 2011 Report Share Posted June 26, 2011 (edited) I have been out rough shooting before and only managed one pigeon. I hit it hard and as a result it was not worth processing for the table. Do you consider that mindless, pointless and disrespectful also Now you are just being silly I am in a position to have a little perspective here... If I was out stalking and I came accross a pigeon or 2... would I shoot them with my .308 to 'protect' local farmers from their evil beaks.... would I chuff!!! It would be a pointless excercise. Bit like kids shooting cats with air rifles.... shows a need to kill something, nothing more! If you go out with the intention of shooting pigeons with the right gun, for the right reasons... a bag of 1 is either bad luck or bad field craft... And... in response to some replies recently added... no one said anything about 'getting in trouble' over the picture... this is a moral issue not a legal one. The discussion about the GL was a side issue and was more to do wit shooting woodies in your back yard. Edited June 26, 2011 by Vipa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davy Holt Posted June 26, 2011 Author Report Share Posted June 26, 2011 (edited) Vipa.. wind yer neck in mate it's starting to get boring.. you started off making an issue out of the use of CF, then went on to the GL now you have jumped to the "moral" issue.. what's next pigeons rights :no: And just for the record, CF is actually a very efficient way of keeping pigeons off a ground. They tend to stay away for a few days, rather than the normal of comming back in a few hours after you have taken one out from the group. Edited June 27, 2011 by Davy Holt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harrypen Posted June 27, 2011 Report Share Posted June 27, 2011 isnt it about time this rubbish got pulled Key board warriors strike again...ive seen pigeons blasted apart by SO CAllED spotsmen with twelve bores that made far more mess If you dont like what the op posted DONT LOOK....and here it is drtagged to 5 pages "I dont like killing but I like the process ,,,TOTAL **** ...if you just like the "PROCESS" get a bloody camera And turn in your guns....HYPOCRITE isnt a strong enough word Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vipa Posted June 27, 2011 Report Share Posted June 27, 2011 (edited) isnt it about time this rubbish got pulled Key board warriors strike again...ive seen pigeons blasted apart by SO CAllED spotsmen with twelve bores that made far more mess If you dont like what the op posted DONT LOOK....and here it is drtagged to 5 pages "I dont like killing but I like the process ,,,TOTAL **** ...if you just like the "PROCESS" get a bloody camera And turn in your guns....HYPOCRITE isnt a strong enough word And here's me thinking this was a forum, in a democracy where everyone is entitled to their own opinion and perfectly within their rights to air that opinion... You seem to feel otherwise If you cannot see the difference between killing for fun and killing for need or as part of a process, you may want to take a very long hard look at yourself as that points to a VERY worrying personality issue. You may also want to check your understanding of the word hypocrite..... that would suggest I have said one thing and then done the opposite with malicious intent... it is also quite insulting... the word you are searching for is paradox... I think I have already intimated that the whole hunting/killing thing is a paradox. I too have seen pigeons, crows, rabbits destroyed beyond recognition by a shotgun (far more difficult that you imply actually, unless done from about 10 feet! no hydrostatic shock you see, with a shotgun you are relying purely in the energy from the impact to do the damage. with a bullet, it is the shock wave passing through the fluid contained within the animal that actually does the most damage) However, the shooters tend not to then stick the photo on a forum and then gloat about it! And to the OP... I haven't jumped from one thing to another at all.. there have been 2 discussions going on here, instigated from your original post but about slightly different things. There was a discussion about the GL and I aired my distaste at pictures of animals effectively obliterated for absolutely no good reason. If you are so proud of your handywork put the picture and your description of it back up... as I have said, it makes absolutely no difference to me. You were VERY quick to remove it why was that then no one asked you to, perhaps a little embarrassed, feeling guilty I've aired my views.... They are MY views, they won't change and no one has to share them... the reason this thread has gone to so many pages is because certain people (including the OP) are desperately trying to justify their actions which would suggest, deep down, they know there is a problem... The most telling sign is the fact that the OP still hasn't put the picture back up with the same description... come on... get it back up... Far too many contributions to this thread from people who never saw the photo and description so come on... don't keep 'em in the dark... let's see it again! Edited June 27, 2011 by Vipa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted June 27, 2011 Report Share Posted June 27, 2011 would it have been any different if not on pasture Vipa? as otherwise you can add me to the list, .223 with no mod does a similar amount of damage and seems to keep them off drilling a little longer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vipa Posted June 27, 2011 Report Share Posted June 27, 2011 (edited) would it have been any different if not on pasture Vipa? as otherwise you can add me to the list, .223 with no mod does a similar amount of damage and seems to keep them off drilling a little longer Alex... I don't know why they are getting all hot under the collar! (I can see them now... all bloated with purple faces.... spitting as they type ) If that's what you do, you have good reason to do it, it obviously works.... fantastic..... I don't however, recall you ever posting a picture of one of your destroyed pigeons with a tag line of "pigeon vs .223!" There are plenty of things we all do as shooters that could be seen as 'unhealthy' in others eyes... indeed there are plenty of things that go on in this world that others would find distasteful and possibly slightly lacking... The difference is, most of us don't go and post pictures of said activities with childish tag lines! Was out this morning with Hawkeye, we were going to deal with a corvid problem on a corn field.. as it happens, the farmer had put his dairy herd in the field where we needed to set up so we had to abort. The decoy pattern would have been set up on grazing land and we would have been dropping the crows on pasture even though we were protecting a corn field. so, the crop thing was a bit of a 'troll' by me... and, if he had done it with a shottie, I may have seen things a little differently or shown a decent bag but in this instance... the photo, the tag line, everything about it said 'killed because I wanted to kill something!'..... not necessary and just re-inforces the public perception that we are all blood thirsty nut jobs. If that's how the OP wants to get his kicks, who am I to criticize! (slightly worrying mind) He doesn't need to make a song and dance about it though... we don't need to see it and neither do members of the non shooting community who may stumble on it either. Edited June 27, 2011 by Vipa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
12borejimbo Posted June 27, 2011 Report Share Posted June 27, 2011 I want to see the picture, lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soreshoulder Posted June 27, 2011 Report Share Posted June 27, 2011 Alex... I don't know why they are getting all hot under the collar! (I can see them now... all bloated with purple faces.... spitting as they type ) If that's what you do, you have good reason to do it, it obviously works.... fantastic..... I don't however, recall you ever posting a picture of one of your destroyed pigeons with a tag line of "pigeon vs .223!" There are plenty of things we all do as shooters that could be seen as 'unhealthy' in others eyes... indeed there are plenty of things that go on in this world that others would find distasteful and possibly slightly lacking... The difference is, most of us don't go and post pictures of said activities with childish tag lines! Was out this morning with Hawkeye, we were going to deal with a corvid problem on a corn field.. as it happens, the farmer had put his dairy herd in the field where we needed to set up so we had to abort. The decoy pattern would have been set up on grazing land and we would have been dropping the crows on pasture even though we were protecting a corn field. so, the crop thing was a bit of a 'troll' by me... and, if he had done it with a shottie, I may have seen things a little differently or shown a decent bag but in this instance... the photo, the tag line, everything about it said 'killed because I wanted to kill something!'..... not necessary and just re-inforces the public perception that we are all blood thirsty nut jobs. If that's how the OP wants to get his kicks, who am I to criticize! (slightly worrying mind) He doesn't need to make a song and dance about it though... we don't need to see it and neither do members of the non shooting community who may stumble on it either. so if you had got one crow over decoys, and the op had shot one crow with a 222 how is the end result any different. Yes shooting does protect farmers and their livelihood but your both shooting quarry because you get enjoyment out of it otherwise you wouldnt do it, afterall is not your crop is it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vipa Posted June 27, 2011 Report Share Posted June 27, 2011 so if you had got one crow over decoys, and the op had shot one crow with a 222 how is the end result any different. Yes shooting does protect farmers and their livelihood but your both shooting quarry because you get enjoyment out of it otherwise you wouldnt do it, afterall is not your crop is it? You seem to be suffering from the same problem other posters are..... If you want to go round blowing animals up with a CF rifle... go for it... it paints a slightly worrying picture of your mentality but hey... it is a fine line between madness & genius # The rest of us however don't need to see the splattered remains of ex-animal posted with smug comments. Any member of the public would be horrified by such a display and it just re-inforces the public perception that gun owners are blood thirsty nutters with no respect for life. Everyone is jumping on the number of animals killed... it has nothing to do with that, it has to do with the... "ooo look what I did" mentality.. The overall image of the OP was that of killing for fun then gloating about it. I am just repeating myself over and over here... if you don't understand, I'm sorry.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stace1g Posted June 27, 2011 Report Share Posted June 27, 2011 (edited) Well I have come nto the thread a little late (I only get on the internet generally during the week so missed the start and the photos) . Whilst I am not intending to make jusdgement in the instance (I did not see the photo nor do i know enough about the OP) I would tend to agree with Viper (in general terms) in so much as the rationalle behind our shooting needs to be as sound as possible. This especially if we are to survive and if our sport is to continue without further restirction. Some people involved in shooting appear to relish the act of killing and appear more itnerested in the 'gun' aspect of shooting i have met a few, for others (my self included) the kill is the finalle of the act of hunting and satisfation is gained from the whole process as well as a 'clean' kill. Some people are hunters some are shooters. The latter tend to be the ones less interested in the condition of the bag. Most of what I shoot is to eat and I use the process/equipment most suited to that goal. Therefore I shoot pigeons with a shotgun as this is the most effective tool in my mind and the pigeon is left in a form fit for consumption. I only use a rifle on rabbits as I believe a shotgun to be to indiscriminate and leads to meat contamination. In general terms it does seem to me to be a little 'overkill' to use a centrefire to cull one pigeon. A waste of this bird which was no good then for consumption. However as stated I do not know the circumstances or the OP so cannot comment on this individual case. I have enjoyed reading the thread however as I find discussions of this nature most interesting. Gaz Edited June 27, 2011 by stace1g Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davy Holt Posted June 27, 2011 Author Report Share Posted June 27, 2011 I want to see the picture, lol. Not much really to see.. just a bunch of feathers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davy Holt Posted June 27, 2011 Author Report Share Posted June 27, 2011 would it have been any different if not on pasture Vipa? as otherwise you can add me to the list, .223 with no mod does a similar amount of damage and seems to keep them off drilling a little longer it certainly does keep them off a lot longer than shooting with a shot gun, which is handy for keeping the farmer happy when you don't happen to have the shotty & deeks with you or the spare time to spend a few hours shooting pigeons that day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vermincinerator Posted June 27, 2011 Report Share Posted June 27, 2011 I shoot a couple of mixed farms, my farmers want "ALL" pests and vermin controlling, i dont use shotguns, i am a rifle shooter so pigeons, crows magpies and all other pests and vermin get shot with my rifles be it 22-250 or my 257 with which i have shot pigeons and crows on both pasture and crops and yes i enjoy it very much because i really enjoy using my rifles. Ian. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildfowler.250 Posted June 27, 2011 Report Share Posted June 27, 2011 What was the origional post. Im a tad lost,(guessing a messy pigeon??). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davy Holt Posted June 27, 2011 Author Report Share Posted June 27, 2011 What was the origional post. Im a tad lost,(guessing a messy pigeon??). yer pretty much so.. no blood n guts visable though just a pile of feathers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njc110381 Posted June 30, 2011 Report Share Posted June 30, 2011 I think a lot of you are being a bit anal over this. The guy shot a Pigeon, it died, job done. Lets not get into morals etc as it's up to the guy with the rifle to judge. His land owner is happy, he is (or at least was) happy. Why spoil it? I can't see the pic but from what I've heard it was a good shot. Nicely done IMO! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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