20 years on without unions in the public sector

[Wharf Rat]

@ Nial. I not only work in the private sector, but do so as a landlord employing several employees.

[jasper3]

the country is is debt..it needs sorting.. simple as that..everyone needs to cut back,

[Bloke]

I think the income tax from the baby boomers has covered things over the last 25 odd years.

 

It's not a race to the bottom, it's a race to reality in public sector rewards.

 

 

I think I posted elsewhere here but a recent survey showed that like for like the public sector are paid 17% more per hour.

 

Nial.

 

Yes the Income Tax from the baby boomers helped, but as for great wages - well, my mate works in the private sector - a semi-skilled job in a local steelworks, His wages were slightly more than mine for the same number of hours and his pension lump sum will be over double mine and his yearly pension will be nearly 20% more than mine - so much for huge public sector payouts. I was a skilled senior nurse, responsible for a team of staff caring for up to 40 patient's lives at any one time with 40+ pensionable years, and whilst I am not complaining about his pension, surely what we should be aiming at is to increase all pensions to a decent level, not decrease all pensions to the levels of the lowest.

 

Part of the problem was that unlike the private sector, who invested the pension contributions and used the interest as part of the payment, the public sector pension contributions went into the overall national spending pot, to pay for upkeep of roads/street lighting/MP's expenses etc, and none was saved for later. Then the Baby boomers (like me) came to retire at the same time as the shrinkage of the NHS into private sector organisations, so you have less NHS staff to pay for more retirees. The government was predicting this problem back in the 1970's and no government since has done anything to plan for this, now they cry for help at the eleventh hour as usual.

Edited July 1, 2011 by Bloke

[Thunderbird]

I have always been led to understand that the public sector pension is a way of compensating people for the hell-on-earth mind-numbing tedium it must truly be working for many public sector bodies such as the DWP.

[TaxiDriver]

Am I the only person to have misread the title as '20 years without Onions in the public sector' :blush:

[Thunderbird]

Am I the only person to have misread the title as '20 years without Onions in the public sector' :blush:

 

Minty fresh breath...

[DSPUK]

Forgive me if I am wrong- But I thought the public sector didn't have a pension scheme as we all know it - My company "had" a final salary scheme and I am a recipient of it but it's based on your final years pay and depending on how high you managed to climb the ladder dictates your pension (first rung me)- It is paid from the pension scheme that Gordon Clown raided and sunk. - Public pensions although paid into by workers do not have a pension scheme - it's just paid into gov coffers and dished out when someone retires - So who pays - not a pension scheme as we know it but the Gov - this is crux of the matter - every Tom- Richard and Harry are paying the pensions of Public sector workers which means my Council tax will rise again to fund it - I have no objection to a Public sector pension no matter how much it is provided I am not paying for it. - This is what they fail to understand.

 

dave

[kdubya]

the country is is debt..it needs sorting.. simple as that..everyone needs to cut back,

 

yep we are all in it together ( 50 million tax avoided was it as well?)

 

http://politicalscrapbook.net/2011/03/grinning-deutsche-bank-staff-wave-money-at-nhs-protesters/

[Pigeon love]

My wife was recently lost her job working for the schools, where she had been working for the past 3 years. She paid her dues into the pensions sceheme (I am not sure of the monthly amount of hand), the role was part time, which was was approximatly 18 hrs a week. Although she often worked 25 - 30hrs, without being able to claim O/T.

 

Due to the finianical cuts the school was forced to let her go. She managed to get a similar job for Barnardos, which although is a charity is a private industry job. She works less hours for more money. She has also had more opportunities to improve her CV through training and extra responsiablities.

 

I also work for the public sector and am meant to work 40 hrs a week, but more often than not, I work a 50 -60hr a week. Sometimes working 15hrs only to have 3 hrs kip, then back to work.This has a serious effecton my family life, especially with shift work.

 

I pay nearly double into my pension which is more than other public sector workers. my friend works in the private sector, and who is a finincial director and owns a 1/2 million house in the country, while I can hardly afford a 2 bed mid terrance, with benefit scrougers for neighbours.

 

I earn around 30K a year, for getting beaten up, insulted, and shouted at most days (not just by the wife because I am going shooting again!!)and never seem to make anyone happy with the descision I make. My friend earns around 50 - 70k a year for re-uphostering funiture although I know he works hard and has the responsiablity for a entire company. I also have another friend who earns around 80K - 100K a year looking at the ocean bed to locate oil, and gets to travel all over the world on business expenses

 

I completly agreed that some people in the public sector get over paid for what they do, but thats on the basis of the 20/80 rule. 20% of the people doing 80% of the work. But I have also worked in the private sector in the past and know this is just as true for that sector, you get the sick notes in ever line of work, its just easier to get rid of them in the Private sector.

 

Oh, I have not had a pay rise for two years. Which I dont mind, as quite rightly we are all in this debt crisis together as a country, although I have my doubts at times.

 

When the goverment puts a stop to footballers being paid 80k a week or union chief's/MP's and managaing directors getting 100k bonus's a year, I think then maybe people can start turning there attention on the people working at the bottom rung of the public sector, because from down here, I am definatly not smelling the roses. Until then maybe the country's anger is being focused in the wrong direction... something to do with a slight influence over the national media, who never seem to bash the private sector as much but still sells the papers dosnt it.

 

I also pay council tax, so essentially pay for my own wages and pension as well.

 

I will happily take any offers of jobs in the private sector, earning £35K upwards. I am 33yrs old, motivated, quick to learn and have two degrees in business I dont care what pension I pay into.

I shall also await the bashing comments back at my post enjoying the discussion.

Edited July 1, 2011 by Pigeon love

[Vince Green]

The simple fact is that the projected cost for public sector pensions is huge. Part of that has been mismanagement in the past by the last government who buried their head in the sand allowing things to fester.

 

Now its a big problem that has to be addressesed, how can you do that without upsetting people? its not their fault but its not the public's either.

 

We should have been having this discussion 15 years ago. Now things are at breaking point its too late. What ever your political views labour are to blame but they will be the first to deflect criticism. About the only thing they seem to do well. Do we really want to end up like Greece?

Edited July 1, 2011 by Vince Green

[Mungler]

Lets not forget political interference either. It is true media coverage fed the run on Northern Rock, but its activities came under scrutiny after the full extent of the sub-prime crisis in America became apparent. That crisis had its roots in credit equality legislation introduced by the Clinton administraion, whereby a 35 stone women with 7 kids who lives on welfare and has never done a stroke in her life could effectively sue a financial institution if it refused to lend her $250,000 to buy her shack in Alabama on the grounds it had discriminated against her because she was black/fat/poor/a single mother etc. Not the effect the legislators had on mind but even a president with his brain in his underpants should have seen it coming.

Fearing a blizzard of law suits banks granted these disasterous loans, hid them anoung sound loans and sold the lot on in bundles as investment packages to companies like Northern Rock which at the time was being run by teenagers.

When the value of their portfolio on which the whole business floated became junk Northern Rock was effectively bust.

At this point the bank should have been run down. Basically put into administration but very slowly so that sound business can be separated and sold.

The only casualties in the long term would have been the shareholders and the staff.

It is likely that the previous Government refused to countenance this action because the collapse of a major employer in its own heartland would have had dire electoral consequences. So instead the they used taxpayers money to try and buy off political embarrassment. Which was doubly stupid because had they allowed the bank to fail they might have won wider credit for taking a difficult but courageous decision for the bnenfir of the wider economy.

Gordon Brown did it again when RBS and HBOS went down, allegedly suggesting to Victor Blank (then director at Lloyds TSB)at a drinks party that if only some solid reliable banking fairy Godfather might step in and help him out of an embarrassing little difficulty in the Scottish financial sector there might be something nice to come in the new years honours list.

So Lloyds went down too.

And that is why we are broke.

The banks did not cause the crisis by themselves, though they certainly courted it. It was politicians who made potential disaster an absolute certainty. And Gordon, I believe, got a very handsome pension out of it.

 

 

 

Spot on

[Bagsy]

And Gordon, I believe, got a very handsome pension out of it.

 

Didn't he just

 

The damage that man done to our economy while Chancellor and later the big boss is scary beyond belief, but what's really astonishing is the short memories people seem to have now we're paying the consequences

[jasper3]

Didn't he just

 

The damage that man done to our economy while Chancellor and later the big boss is scary beyond belief, but what's really astonishing is the short memories people seem to have now we're paying the consequences

 

 

the truth is .if you borrow..then you need to pay..we are now paying..and it looks like many don't like it

try being self employed..forget the pension, its hard enough making a living

Edited July 1, 2011 by jasper3

[Pastiebap]

Didn't he just

 

The damage that man done to our economy while Chancellor and later the big boss is scary beyond belief, but what's really astonishing is the short memories people seem to have now we're paying the consequences

And isn't it funny that whilst Gordon was systematically ruining the country the Unions did nothing. Yet as soon as we have a Conservative prime minister they are organising strikes. Surely it wouldn't be political and have nothing to do with Unions who give their members money to the labour party.

[Gimlet]

The labour party is after all the political wing of the Trade Union movement, a movement devoted solely to advancing the interests of its members, and hang everyone else.

The election of a Labour government, or at least an Old Labour government as represented by Brown, opened the chest of public funds to Trade Union use. A million superfluous workers, and their pensions, were added to the public payroll by Brown to create his 'Client State' of voters dependant on the continuation in perpetuity of a labour Government for their future employment.

The 1 trillion pounds of debt this county is sinking under is the price of this astonishing piece of corruption. And worst of all, moving the cost of a grossly swollen public sector pensions liablity off balance sheet, as Brown did, is tacit acknowledgement that it cannot be funded. To mortgage in their entirety the lives of people yet unborn to pay for this partisan political 'project' is morally repugnant. I would call it treason.

So much for the Thatcher government's 'old boy' network. What amateurs they were in comparison.

 

 

There we are, pigeons lined up nicely cat on its way.

Edited July 2, 2011 by Gimlet

[Diceman]

The labour party is after all the political wing of the Trade Union movement, a movement devoted solely to advancing the interests of its members, and hang everyone else.

The election of a Labour government, or at least an Old Labour government as represented by Brown, opened the chest of public funds to Trade Union use. A million superfluous workers, and their pensions, were added to the public payroll by Brown to create his 'Client State' of voters dependant on the continuation in perpetuity of a labour Government for their future employment.

The 1 trillion pounds of debt this county is sinking under is the price of this astonishing piece of corruption. And worst of all, moving the cost of a grossly swollen public sector pensions liablity off balance sheet, as Brown did, is tacit acknowledgement that it cannot be funded. To mortgage in their entirety the lives of people yet unborn to pay for this partisan political 'project' is morally repugnant. I would call it treason.

So much for the Thatcher government's 'old boy' network. What amateurs they were in comparison.

 

 

There we are, pigeons lined up nicely cat on its way.

 

No cat coming from this direction, a very fair summary I would say.

[gsm1968]

No cat coming from this direction, a very fair summary I would say.

 

+1

[reddan]

And isn't it funny that whilst Gordon was systematically ruining the country the Unions did nothing. Yet as soon as we have a Conservative prime minister they are organising strikes. Surely it wouldn't be political and have nothing to do with Unions who give their members money to the labour party.

 

 

Much as it pains me to say but Labour have called out against the strikes dispite their union roots.

[Flashman]

Its 20 years from today when the current goverment banned unions in the UK.

 

What do you think the wages and pension schemes,holidays would be like for your average teacher etc.

 

Cheers

Regardless of what happens in the future, the fact that your teachers failed to instil rudimentary punctuation in you is proof that the system doesn't work.

Edited July 4, 2011 by Flashman

[Maidment78]

My wife was recently lost her job working for the schools, where she had been working for the past 3 years. She paid her dues into the pensions sceheme (I am not sure of the monthly amount of hand), the role was part time, which was was approximatly 18 hrs a week. Although she often worked 25 - 30hrs, without being able to claim O/T.

 

Due to the finianical cuts the school was forced to let her go. She managed to get a similar job for Barnardos, which although is a charity is a private industry job. She works less hours for more money. She has also had more opportunities to improve her CV through training and extra responsiablities.

 

I also work for the public sector and am meant to work 40 hrs a week, but more often than not, I work a 50 -60hr a week. Sometimes working 15hrs only to have 3 hrs kip, then back to work.This has a serious effecton my family life, especially with shift work.

 

I pay nearly double into my pension which is more than other public sector workers. my friend works in the private sector, and who is a finincial director and owns a 1/2 million house in the country, while I can hardly afford a 2 bed mid terrance, with benefit scrougers for neighbours.

 

I earn around 30K a year, for getting beaten up, insulted, and shouted at most days (not just by the wife because I am going shooting again!!)and never seem to make anyone happy with the descision I make. My friend earns around 50 - 70k a year for re-uphostering funiture although I know he works hard and has the responsiablity for a entire company. I also have another friend who earns around 80K - 100K a year looking at the ocean bed to locate oil, and gets to travel all over the world on business expenses

 

I completly agreed that some people in the public sector get over paid for what they do, but thats on the basis of the 20/80 rule. 20% of the people doing 80% of the work. But I have also worked in the private sector in the past and know this is just as true for that sector, you get the sick notes in ever line of work, its just easier to get rid of them in the Private sector.

 

Oh, I have not had a pay rise for two years. Which I dont mind, as quite rightly we are all in this debt crisis together as a country, although I have my doubts at times.

 

When the goverment puts a stop to footballers being paid 80k a week or union chief's/MP's and managaing directors getting 100k bonus's a year, I think then maybe people can start turning there attention on the people working at the bottom rung of the public sector, because from down here, I am definatly not smelling the roses. Until then maybe the country's anger is being focused in the wrong direction... something to do with a slight influence over the national media, who never seem to bash the private sector as much but still sells the papers dosnt it.

 

I also pay council tax, so essentially pay for my own wages and pension as well.

 

I will happily take any offers of jobs in the private sector, earning £35K upwards. I am 33yrs old, motivated, quick to learn and have two degrees in business I dont care what pension I pay into.

I shall also await the bashing comments back at my post enjoying the discussion.

 

1. We make staduim seat for the FA and sporting arena, theatres and major event area and big MOD boats floating about the sea.

2. My wife bought the house, she is a lawyer and works 70+ hours defending companies from people who were not clever enough to open doors before walking through them

3. I bought the company for a serious amount of cash and put the house up for it and live with the risk.

4. £70k in my dreams.

5. I also have two degrees, one in physics the other in purchasing and procurement? mean tat all in the real world.

 

I am not sure why working my **** off and taking risks and doing well is so bad? we all have choices to make, make them and go with it, do not put me down for doing ok in life,

 

If you do not like it change it, simple.

 

Ps what is a pension? I have a veggie patch so does that count?

[reddan]

For the love of god don't fire this one up again.

 

Dan