6 or 7.5 shot?

[browning n spaniel]

evening all, advice needed!!!! i normaly use eley pigeon 6, 30g, today i had soom eley 7.5 28g in the cupard so decided to use them, i found that these wouldnt kill stone dead but would drop um as runners at 30 odd yrds, no is it me, my gun or is it the carts,??

 

any info would be brill

[fruity]

Personaly i think 28g 7.5 is to light for pigeons , hence some runners , 6,s 30 g for me

Edited October 29, 2011 by fruity

[Floating Chamber]

6 or 7 shot. Can't understand the need for 30 or 32 gram!!! Never have. Waste of lead; you only hit them with a few pellets anyway. Always used Impax 1 oz. (28.4 gram) when I used a 12 gauge. Regularly shot them with .410.

[EdSolomons]

It's the gun/choke. 1ox of 7.5 should flatten them way out there if the shot is in right place.

[Kes]

Pattern your gun and check your aiming point its not the carts. You should be able to kill regularly at 40-45 yds with 6's 30 grams although I would keep 40 yds as a max. 7.5's should work at 35-40 yds. It may be you !!!

[motty]

This topic has been covered a lot! I don't notice the difference in 'runners' i get when using 6 or 7.5 shot. In fact yesterday i shot 155 pigeons and used mostly 8s. I still get great kills with those but don't take on 50 yard birds all day. I also think 30/32 gm isn't necessary unless you are constantly firing at rangey birds and when i changed from 28 gm rio 8s to 32 rio 6 yesterday, all i did notice was a louder bang and double the recoil.

Remember, even if using 42gm 4s you can still get 'runners' if clipped with the edge of the pattern.

[Alycidon]

I find on pheasants that the bigger shot size I use the fewer runners I get, those that are hit and fly on are usually dead where they come to earth. Last season I only failed to pick less than a handfull of birds that I had hit, I shot about 15 days.

 

Over the last 40 odd years I have used everything from White Gold 7.5s, Grand prix 7s, various 6s, 5s, right down to some 2s. Yes I had never seen 2s either, **** patterns, just not enough of them in 30gr. All kill when the pattern is in the right place given that on the smaller shot sizes you don't go over about 40 yards as you don't have the pellet energy reserve to get the job done every time. For the last ten years or so I have only used 5s (30gr) in my OU, a couple of pellets have the energy to get the job done with ease. In my SBS which gets an occasional outing then I also use Impax 6s, (they dont do Impax in 5s), a very sweet shooting cartridge that has accounted for 45 yard pheasants through 1/4 choke.

 

A

[Guest cookoff013]

I find on pheasants that the bigger shot size I use the fewer runners I get, those that are hit and fly on are usually dead where they come to earth. Last season I only failed to pick less than a handfull of birds that I had hit, I shot about 15 days.

 

Over the last 40 odd years I have used everything from White Gold 7.5s, Grand prix 7s, various 6s, 5s, right down to some 2s. Yes I had never seen 2s either, **** patterns, just not enough of them in 30gr. All kill when the pattern is in the right place given that on the smaller shot sizes you don't go over about 40 yards as you don't have the pellet energy reserve to get the job done every time. For the last ten years or so I have only used 5s (30gr) in my OU, a couple of pellets have the energy to get the job done with ease. In my SBS which gets an occasional outing then I also use Impax 6s, (they dont do Impax in 5s), a very sweet shooting cartridge that has accounted for 45 yard pheasants through 1/4 choke.

 

A

 

now,

cartridge shotsize selection is essential, it is certainly true, that 7 or even 9s can take game. but the question is why suffer the inadequecies of a 9 or 7 when, picking a 6 minimum or even bigger. never forget that there is distance to the target, and all shotsizes slow down. 9s slow down quicker, shooting them at 1600fps is going to increase the killing range by a foot, maybe even 16 inches.

now increasing to sensible shotsizes, really does increase the effective and incidental range. even a really slow (1100fps) #5 is going to beat a #7 or even a #6 in the energy stakes.

 

in my honest opinion shooting lead at 1600fps has a negative effect on shooting. shooting a big enough shotsize to use the ballistic advantage will beat any super speed, smaller shotsize.

 

most cartridges, are either true english, true american, approx european shotsizes, often can be a good supprise, take rc sipe great cartridge, but is italian shotsizes 1/2 a shotsize or 1 bigger than its english equivalent. same numbers on the catridg, but sipe justs hits harder. with american loads they are bigger too.

 

i`ve patterned slow loads of #4, a 32g load and have been plesently supprised 1/4 choke producing an amazing full pattern.

 

as i`ve quoted alycidon post, he`s tried many cartridges and settled for a load that is actually rather good, 30g enough shot there, and its big enough to be shot from speeds of 1000fps to 1400fps and still be effective on nearly all game.

 

so just dont be afraid about using a bigger 5-4 shotsizes, it gets the energy there to the target and through it.

[Spara Dritto]

Spoke with a relative in Italy. He shoots lots of different cartridges but he sent me one of these (spent cartridge) (Picture below) 42g no7 shot on 50+ yard geese, ducks, pigeons, hares ...

Is it the shot size? Pellet size? Cartridge weight?

I don’t know, but they are a popular cartridge and are used for 50 yards+ (not cheap at just under £12.00!)

 

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-kG_iZDLft6E/Thxu-SdlQ9I/AAAAAAAAB1Q/h7V1WCULoFI/s1600/imeteorasemimagnum%5B1%5D.jpg

 

4th cartridge down the list. Use google translate if necessary.

 

http://armeriavesuvio.blogspot.com/2011/07/cartucce-da-caccia-zannoletti.html

 

My parents are on their way back from Italy with some weird and wonderful spent cartridges of which we never hear over here. I will post them and their uses.

Edited October 30, 2011 by Beretta Italy

[poontang]

Spoke with a relative in Italy. He shoots lots of different cartridges but he sent me one of these (spent cartridge) (Picture below) 42g no7 shot on 50+ yard geese, ducks, pigeons, hares ...

Is it the shot size? Pellet size? Cartridge weight?

I don’t know, but they are a popular cartridge and are used for 50 yards+ (not cheap at just under £12.00!)

 

 

 

You wouldn't kill a 50+ yard goose with #7 shot

[ayano3]

When I decoy Pigeons I always use Eley First 28g 7 1/2's. I use these when I roost smaller trees but the 4 weeks we shoot Grimsthorpe Estate in February I change to 32g 6's as the birds are well up above the tall trees and testing birds. I used the 7 1/2's 2 weeks ago on a driven shoot without a single runner, they were not bad birds and flew reasonable well. When I go on the 'cocks only' shoot (where I pick up) I change again to the 32 6's as they are what we call 'fen birds' and fly like missiles and its not a case of is that bird too low...its is it out of range !!This is all using my AYA no4 s/s with both barrels less than 1/4 choke. In my opinion its getting used to a cartridge, sticking to it as much as possible and gun fit.

 

So for closer range birds 7.5's and if youre pretty sure they are going to be longer range shots 6's. Hope youre not confused !!

[sitsinhedges]

You wouldn't kill a 50+ yard goose with #7 shot

 

I would have thought they'd be more suited to flocks of starlings or such like.

[Spara Dritto]

All I can say is that is what the cartridge has been designed for and it works... I think European shot sizes are bigger then ours so this would make a difference plus it's lead not steel.

 

Cartridge Meteora extremely fast over 430 meters per second designed for shots from 40-60 feet exasperated; ideal for anyone low temperatures for geese, ducks, pigeons, hares ...

-Brand: Muninord

-Type: T5 Meteora

-No Box

-Caliber: 12

-Bossolo: 70 mm

-Color: Red

-Weight: 42 grams

Shot-Number: 7

-Package: 25

Price € 13.00

Edited October 30, 2011 by Beretta Italy

[poontang]

All I can say is that is what the cartridge has been designed for and it works... I think European shot sizes are bigger then ours so this would make a difference plus it's lead not steel.

 

 

 

Yes, European shot sizes generally differ slightly, and yes it's lead BUT 430mps is about 1400fps, so it's the equivalent of a UK pigeon load, albeit with a few more pellets.

 

It still won't kill a goose at 50 yards.

[Spara Dritto]

30g = 270 pellets of no 6

42g = 42 divided by 30 = 1.4. 1.4 x 270 = 378.

Difference between 42g of 6 shot - 30g of 6 shot = 12g or 378 - 270 = 108 pellets.

 

It would have roughly 108 no6 pellets more than a pigeon load (of which has 270 roughly) making a rough total of 378 ish pellets of no 6 shot.

 

Each one of those 108 extra lead pellets have 1.5 ft/lbs of energy at 50 yards.

 

A steel load of no 4 shot has 1.53 ft/lbs of energy at 50 yards but has only 235 pellets.

 

If the steel cartridge take SOLWAY STEEL MAGNUM by Hull for example has been designed for geese with almost identical ft/lbs but 143 pellets less then the lead, making the steel a far more patchy pattern at that distance, why can't the lead alternative do just the same job?

 

(To add, both are travelling at 1410 fps)

 

To summarise - the lead has practically identical energy and 143 pellets more then steel producing a far denser pattern at longer ranges.

 

It’s not a dig It’s an honest question.

 

Lastly with the small size difference, it's not the size of shot that kills, it's the energy it produces.

 

Could be completely wrong but seems to make sense..

Edited October 30, 2011 by Beretta Italy

[sitsinhedges]

30g = 270 pellets of no 6

42g = 42 divided by 30 = 1.4. 1.4 x 270 = 378.

Difference between 42g of 6 shot - 30g of 6 shot = 12g or 378 - 270 = 108 pellets.

 

It would have roughly 108 no6 pellets more than a pigeon load (of which has 270 roughly) making a rough total of 378 ish pellets of no 6 shot.

 

Each one of those 108 extra lead pellets have 1.5 ft/lbs of energy at 50 yards.

 

A steel load of no 4 shot has 1.53 ft/lbs of energy at 50 yards but has only 235 pellets.

 

If the steel cartridge take SOLWAY STEEL MAGNUM by Hull for example has been designed for geese with almost identical ft/lbs but 143 pellets less then the lead, making the steel a far more patchy pattern at that distance, why can't the lead alternative do just the same job?

 

(To add, both are travelling at 1410 fps)

 

To summarise - the lead has practically identical energy and 143 pellets more then steel producing a far denser pattern at longer ranges.

 

It’s not a dig It’s an honest question.

 

Lastly with the small size difference, it's not the size of shot that kills, it's the energy it produces.

 

Could be completely wrong but seems to make sense..

 

No4 steel wouldn't be used for geese out to 50yards+ so the comparison is meaningless. I would also question whether such a heavy load would be doing such a speed in reality. Heavy loads tend to be slower to keep within breech pressures.

[poontang]

 

 

 

A steel load of no 4 shot has 1.53 ft/lbs of energy at 50 yards but has only 235 pellets.

 

If the steel cartridge take SOLWAY STEEL MAGNUM by Hull for example has been designed for geese with almost identical ft/lbs but 143 pellets less then the lead, making the steel a far more patchy pattern at that distance, why can't the lead alternative do just the same job?

 

(To add, both are travelling at 1410 fps)

 

To summarise - the lead has practically identical energy and 143 pellets more then steel producing a far denser pattern at longer ranges.

 

It’s not a dig It’s an honest question.

 

Lastly with the small size difference, it's not the size of shot that kills, it's the energy it produces.

 

Could be completely wrong but seems to make sense..

 

All well and good, and you've obviously spent a lot of time on the Hull website However, there's one massive flaw in your example.

 

No one would use no4 steel shot on geese at 50 yards. It's a duck load.

 

You're right in saying it's the energy produced that kills, but that energy is dependant on the shot size.

I use a Remington 3.5" 42g BB load (@1550fps) for geese (up to 40yds). If you check out the energy of steel BB's against a no6 lead load I'm sure you'll find quite a difference.

[tignme]

NO ONE wOULD USE 32GR 4s ON GEESE THEY ARE DUCK LOADS. Wrong.

 

I do not buy GOOSE loads but shoot my share of geese using my duck loads 32 no 4s in steel out to 35 yds plus. and yes i do wing some birds as does everyone else. BTW I also shoot trap loads for pigeon,6.5,7.5,8s n 9s

[chrispti]

evening all, advice needed!!!! i normaly use eley pigeon 6, 30g, today i had soom eley 7.5 28g in the cupard so decided to use them, i found that these wouldnt kill stone dead but would drop um as runners at 30 odd yrds,

 

 

Stick to 6's then

 

A pigeon shooting load is always dependant on a mixture of shot size, choke and the range at which you expect to kill your birds.

 

Any bird must be hit with enough pellets of sufficient energy to be reasonably sure of killing it at the range at which you have fired at it.

 

Its no coincidence that after more than 100 years of shotgun technology, the perfect combination of 30/32g of #6 has never been improved upon for general decoying.

[wymberley]

30g = 270 pellets of no 6

42g = 42 divided by 30 = 1.4. 1.4 x 270 = 378.

Difference between 42g of 6 shot - 30g of 6 shot = 12g or 378 - 270 = 108 pellets.

 

It would have roughly 108 no6 pellets more than a pigeon load (of which has 270 roughly) making a rough total of 378 ish pellets of no 6 shot.

 

Each one of those 108 extra lead pellets have 1.5 ft/lbs of energy at 50 yards.

 

A steel load of no 4 shot has 1.53 ft/lbs of energy at 50 yards but has only 235 pellets.

 

If the steel cartridge take SOLWAY STEEL MAGNUM by Hull for example has been designed for geese with almost identical ft/lbs but 143 pellets less then the lead, making the steel a far more patchy pattern at that distance, why can't the lead alternative do just the same job?

 

(To add, both are travelling at 1410 fps)

 

 

 

 

To summarise - the lead has practically identical energy and 143 pellets more then steel producing a far denser pattern at longer ranges.

 

Its not a dig Its an honest question.

 

Lastly with the small size difference, it's not the size of shot that kills, it's the energy it produces.

 

Could be completely wrong but seems to make sense..

 

 

With the first line in error in meant the whole piece was flawed.

9 for effort.

0 for content.

Edited October 31, 2011 by wymberley

[EdSolomons]

I'd like to see you drop a Goose clean at 50 yards with 2 oz of 7s! Not happening unless your good enough to aim for the eye!

[Underdog]

Last year I loaded some 7.5s i have had lying around for years on some green dot. I used them on pigeon over barley. They did ok.

 

Years ago I loaded for 410 all the time, 1/2 oz of 7s all the time. Geese, rabbits, pigeons and pheasants, oh and a couple of fox's all fell to the sevens.

 

Same in my M/loaders, 7s do a good job, gets'em in the head and necks usually see

 

Matching the shell to you and the gun is paramount! That maybe where some of the problems lay.

 

Simply blaming pellet size is folly, some of my best crow shooting years ago was with aload of champion 8s I was given!

 

U.

[poontang]

NO ONE wOULD USE 32GR 4s ON GEESE THEY ARE DUCK LOADS. Wrong.

 

I do not buy GOOSE loads but shoot my share of geese using my duck loads 32 no 4s in steel out to 35 yds plus. and yes i do wing some birds as does everyone else. BTW I also shoot trap loads for pigeon,6.5,7.5,8s n 9s

 

 

Well done

 

 

Give yourself a slap on the back.

[demonwolf444]

i found this with 7.5, ive got some boxes of 6 now and everything seem to drop allot more smaller shot - less energy, less damage to vital organs, more runners ?

[Alycidon]

Spoke with a relative in Italy. He shoots lots of different cartridges but he sent me one of these (spent cartridge) (Picture below) 42g no7 shot on 50+ yard geese, ducks, pigeons, hares ...

Is it the shot size? Pellet size? Cartridge weight?

I don’t know, but they are a popular cartridge and are used for 50 yards+ (not cheap at just under £12.00!)

 

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-kG_iZDLft6E/Thxu-SdlQ9I/AAAAAAAAB1Q/h7V1WCULoFI/s1600/imeteorasemimagnum%5B1%5D.jpg

 

4th cartridge down the list. Use google translate if necessary.

 

http://armeriavesuvio.blogspot.com/2011/07/cartucce-da-caccia-zannoletti.html

 

My parents are on their way back from Italy with some weird and wonderful spent cartridges of which we never hear over here. I will post them and their uses.

 

But most of your Italian wildfowlers use semis with 5 up the spout, or at least the ones that come over here do so I hear. 42gr is a lot of shot so through a reasonable amount of choke multipal hits MAY do enough damage to be effective especially in the head and neck area ( where the pattern should be centered) but I just cant see penetration through a gooses breast, 5s on the other hand will enter the chest cavity. Have a look at a plucked pheasant shot side on with 5s at reasonable range, pellets in the body go almost all the way through. I can see a lot of pricked geese even using 6s.they are big powerful birds. We owe our quarry respect enough to use a suitable cartridge for its humane dispatch. 7s are Ok for pigeons in certainly not in my book for geese.

 

A