410 powder sugestions

[ChrisAsh]

Decided to start reloading and looking for advice on Powder and primers

 

I will be loading 2.5 inch 410 carts with size 9 shot and 1/2 ounce lead

 

Anyone have a sugestion on what combination works well and not to expensive

 

Also any good cheap (I know relative word) suppliers who supply by post

 

I intend buying Mec 600 Jnr for 410 using star crimping rather than rolled

 

All advice welcome

[snarepeg]

Iam loading 10 grains of BLUE DOT, 209 primer, and have straitened skeet with this combo, plus you get 700 cartridges out of a pound of powder. john

[ChrisAsh]

Thanks John

 

Can you tell me where you buy them from

[Andy H]

I use Vectan SP3 or A1 with cheddite primers ,7 grains of A1 makes 1/2kg go a long way and less than £20-00 a tub, Peter lawman will post powder for less than it cost's in fuel to fetch it Also SIARM for wads cases etc .

http://www.siarm.com/index.php?cPath=2_24_29_147

http://www.siarm.com/index.php?cPath=2_24_45&osCsid=2304c83fa94df4583c7e6afd6310d899

[Floating Chamber]

I use Tecna, Win 296, Alliant 2400, SP3, Hodgdon H110.

[Underdog]

A2400 and H110. The only trouble I had reloading 410 was that the hulls expanded after a while. I suspect my chambers where a bit wide and the hulls fireformed. This in turn made it hard work through the press. The gun was a Lincoln over/under.

 

Clay and game did some bits for 410.

 

U.

[Floating Chamber]

A2400 and H110. The only trouble I had reloading 410 was that the hulls expanded after a while. I suspect my chambers where a bit wide and the hulls fireformed. This in turn made it hard work through the press. The gun was a Lincoln over/under.

 

Clay and game did some bits for 410.

 

U.

 

I think the ribbed tubes expand (like crepe paper stretches) and do not return to size. This is worse with fibre shells.

Edited December 1, 2011 by Floating Chamber

[ChrisAsh]

Wow that gives me something to go on

 

I have found clay & game, but where else do you get it from and any good English books about loads

 

I notice on some american sites they seem to dictate what case to use for what load, why is that and what is say the difference between Winchester AA and say a Gamebore cartridge, is the case really important apart from damage etc

 

Thanks again for your help

[Floating Chamber]

Wow that gives me something to go on

 

I have found clay & game, but where else do you get it from and any good English books about loads

 

I notice on some american sites they seem to dictate what case to use for what load, why is that and what is say the difference between Winchester AA and say a Gamebore cartridge, is the case really important apart from damage etc

 

Thanks again for your help

Gamebore, Lyalvale, Eley, Fiocchi, all use Continental (Cheddite) parallel walled 'Reifenhauser' extruded tubes. Winchester/Remington are/were compression-formed tubes that tapered on the inside. The latter use LESS propellant. The most common wads for the Continental cases are Gualandi*. The .410"-bore shell is a 'calibre' and not a 'gauge'. (12 gauge is often wrongly called '12 bore')

The .410" bore shell is often called '12mm' or '36 gauge' on the Continent; however, it's real gauge would term it a '67 gauge'.

 

*Gualandi wads suitable for Cheddite/Fiocchi cases

 

 

http://www.gualandi.it/ENG/bp_16_minicont.asp

 

http://www.gualandi.it/ENG/bp_17_minibior.asp

Edited December 1, 2011 by Floating Chamber

[Vince Green]

American loading manuals often give case makes in their loading tables but this is mainly for self protection as its the make they used to test the loads.

[Andy H]

There is a book called "climbing the north face of the 410" , About the the case style it is due to the way it is made , The older AA Winchester were compression formed (CF) from one piece of plastic and had an internal shape that was slightly tapered with a reduced volume ,The major manufacturing process now is parallel tube PT) where the case is made up from a straight piece of tube with an internal base wad inside the metal formed rim this has a greater internal volume than a CF case of equal length , Using the same load in both cases can result in higher pressures in the CF cases.

The only other case style is the Gordon system and that i have not used but Floating chamber can enlighten you about those, the issue about the cases swelling and being too big to chamber I have solved by running my reloads into a custom sizeing die after reloading them to smooth the surface out.

Edited December 1, 2011 by Andy H

[Floating Chamber]

I have recently been testing 3" .410 loads with CSB0* powder, CX50 primer, H27 mini-container and 19 grams of shot. The pressure was 897 bar and a velocity of 1120 fps at 1 metre. I will probably settle at 18.5 grams of shot.

 

*for legal reasons I have omitted the powder dose. (but those 'in the know' can find it!!!!)

Edited December 1, 2011 by Floating Chamber

[wymberley]

Gamebore, Lyalvale, Eley, Fiocchi, all use Continental (Cheddite) parallel walled 'Reifenhauser' extruded tubes. Winchester/Remington are/were compression-formed tubes that tapered on the inside. The latter use LESS propellant. The most common wads for the Continental cases are Gualandi*. The .410"-bore shell is a 'calibre' and not a 'gauge'. (12 gauge is often wrongly called '12 bore')

The .410" bore shell is often called '12mm' or '36 gauge' on the Continent; however, it's real gauge would term it a '67 gauge'.

 

*Gualandi wads suitable for Cheddite/Fiocchi cases

 

 

http://www.gualandi.it/ENG/bp_16_minicont.asp

 

http://www.gualandi.it/ENG/bp_17_minibior.asp

Chris, sorry, but I just have to ask.

 

FC, I knew about the .410 being a calibre, but you've floored me with gauge for 12 - and I would imagine 20, 28, 8, etc, etc. Why is "bore" wrong? I know where the 12, etc, comes from and a hole bored to that dimension always seemed right to me and apart from being "British" that is.

Cheers,

Phil

[Floating Chamber]

Trust me. 12, 16, 20 24, 28 etc. gauges

.410 bore.

Help me Sits!

[wymberley]

Trust me. 12, 16, 20 24, 28 etc. gauges

.410 bore.

Help me Sits!

Truly sorry, don't understand unless you're saying that your piles are playing you up!

[Mick Shaw]

Chris, sorry, but I just have to ask.

 

FC, I knew about the .410 being a calibre, but you've floored me with gauge for 12 - and I would imagine 20, 28, 8, etc, etc. Why is "bore" wrong? I know where the 12, etc, comes from and a hole bored to that dimension always seemed right to me and apart from being "British" that is.

Cheers,

Phil

The gauge of a firearm is a unit of measurement used to express the diameter of the barrel. Gauge is determined from the weight of a solid sphere of lead that will fit the bore of the firearm, and is expressed as the multiplicative inverse of the sphere's weight as a fraction of a pound (e.g., a 1⁄12th pound ball fits a 12-gauge bore). Thus there are twelve 12-gauge balls per pound (etc.).

[wymberley]

The gauge of a firearm is a unit of measurement used to express the diameter of the barrel. Gauge is determined from the weight of a solid sphere of lead that will fit the bore of the firearm, and is expressed as the multiplicative inverse of the sphere's weight as a fraction of a pound (e.g., a 1⁄12th pound ball fits a 12-gauge bore). Thus there are twelve 12-gauge balls per pound (etc.).

Thanks, Mick, but if it's a 12-gauge bore, I'll carry on taking the gauge as an adjective and the bore as the noun. At least I'll know why I'm wrong.

 

Still, iron shot is right.

Edited December 2, 2011 by wymberley

[Floating Chamber]

...and Jesus wept.

[wymberley]

...and Jesus wept.

What, his playing up as well?

[Tony ele]

Hi

can any one give me the combination For 410 reloading 14 grams using A1 be tan powder 

thanks

[Downforce]

Hi

My first post but I have been reading the immensely helpful comments for years - anyway go gentle with me...

While I understand this is an old reloading .410 post I couldnt find anything more appropriate and I had to register and ask everything all at once

What I am confused about being relatively new to reloading but not shooting is that many people say that you have to...

a) follow the recipe exactly in order to be "safe" [and]

b) have years of loading experience before you start changing the load data to work up your own loads....

I really want to be safe rather than reckless and more to the point dont want to do something that breaks my gun or injures me or someone else

So after doing simple 12G shells I have a Mossberg 410 pump action and am basically looking to use larger shot to give me a reliable range and accuracy where I can't use a 12G but probably cant use 5x .36" as thats too heavy and too big to fit in a 76mm hull and if I drop below 5 pellets my load is no longer UK legal so I have two options

 - use a mixture of shot sizes [or]

 - only use smaller shot like #4 Buck or something

Both above options are available commercially but try as I might I can't find any in UK. If I could just buy what I wanted I wouldnt probably bother converting my press and buying 410 specific powder etc. etc.

It does seem theres a Federal .410 5x pellet handgun load designed for handguns like the Taurus Judge and again even though I cant buy that I wonder if I could, would a handgun load have the accuracy and velocity I am looking for in order to use a 410 at a slightly longer effective distance than 30 feet as with #6 birdshot. I have shot a milk carton at about 20m with a standard #6 2.75" load and its a bit lame.

I am considering if that if I go for smaller than 0.36" 000 Buck that would neatly sit stacked nicely in the .410 cartridge to 00 Buck or 0 Buck by stacking the pellets in a wobbly line it's not going to be as effective and give such a good pattern - think of a line line of snooker balls where the back one is hit and the front one comes out straight vs. the triangle when the queue ball strikes and they go everywhere!! So my initial thoughts revolve around using 2-3 0.36" pellets plus a few #6 to ensure legality

But what i am finding is that many of the recipes available quote mainly USA components like Remington hulls and wads and primers and while I can get the hulls OR the wads I can't get the primers or something. So in the context of a catch-22 how do I find a .410 load with the right characteristics so that I can use that as a basis? I have a few reloading manuals and I have downloaded load data from the various providers (Alliant, Hogden etc) but none of those contains either a recipe that does what I am looking for or is similar to what I am looking for using components that are available in UK. I have a MEC 600 press but need the .410 accesories.

So my questions are;

1) Does anyone know where I can buy commercially available .410 buckshot cartridges - ideally 000 Buck but I'll try anything #4 Buck up to see if it does the business

2) Has anyone made up reliable, straight shooting .410 buckshot loads using available components in UK that are UK Sect 2 Legal and could provide a good tested recipe?

3) Although several manufacturers offer wads for a single .36 ball in .410 or 7/8oz of #6 shot nobody seems to say what kind of wad works well for 2-3 .36 balls stacked - should it be a case of using a mini wad with the balls stacked on each other or is it better to have all the shot in a wad that petals out as it exits the barrel?

Just as an aside my Mossberg is rated for 2.75 & 3 inch shells but does misfeed about 1 in 3 3" shells but works reliably on 2.75" - anyone else had that ?

Thanks for making it through my mega post 🙂

Downforce

[Dasher]

What are you going to use these loads for? If your shooting game and vermin then I don't understand what you are trying to achieve really, you need pattern to achieve consistant kills not bigger pellets. I would hazard a guess that you couldn't hit a milk carton at 20m 3 times out of 3 with just 5 pellets, but I bet I could hit it 20 times out of 20 with 14grams of #7 shot.

Regardless of choke, patterns that kill from a .410 require small shot.

19grams of #6 (a heavy 3" load) shot through the best choke to acheive the densist patterns would struggle to make suitable patterns much beyond 35yards even then smaller shot #7 would provide enough power to shoot pheasants at that distance and require less choke.

Personally I would try and find a 3" cartridge that works in your gun or get it fixed so it will shoot 3" factory loads.

 

[saddler]

Lots of good info from a few experienced reloaders on YouTube
Also, there is a dedicated 410 website, called "four ten dot org dot uk"

As to the buckshot, use the largest legal ball that will fit the case...then add smaller shot to bring the shot quantity in line with S.2 requirements
Also look at all brass hulls as they last better than plastic, but tend to be shorter. Donor 303 brass, or 444 brass, or CBC 410 hulls are some of the options

For wads, felt or fibre are another option, or not, as some locations specifically forbid/ban plastic wads - so they then become the only real option.
The good thing is that with a wad punch and some donor material you can become self sufficient for wads/overshot cards - and the DIY option also makes you less reliant on the small UK supply chain
 

[rbrowning2]

9 hours ago, saddler said:

“As to the buckshot, use the largest legal ball that will fit the case...then add smaller shot to bring the shot quantity in line with S.2 requirements”

I would check that idea with your firearms licensing officer, because it will still be section 1, for example adding a single largest ball then say five number 9 shot will still make it section 1 ammunition.

Edited April 7, 2021 by rbrowning2

[saddler]

35 minutes ago, rbrowning2 said:

“As to the buckshot, use the largest legal ball that will fit the case...then add smaller shot to bring the shot quantity in line with S.2 requirements”

I would check that idea with your firearms licensing officer, because it will still be section 1, for example adding a single largest ball then say five number 9 shot will still make it section 1 ammunition.

The definition of S2 ammunition is what?