guest1957 Posted December 13, 2011 Report Share Posted December 13, 2011 The 'big guy' had no authority, either legal or moral, to behave as he did. The only two groups of people who should have had any involvement with a removal from the train under the circumstances in the video would be either police officers or agents of the train company. I suspect the guy involved thinks of himself as a 'big man' and likes other people to think of him in this way also. He saw an opportunity to demonstrate to others that he is a 'big man' and took it to flatter his own ego. There are all sorts of odd interpretations of the law floating around this thread. As for things about 'good men standing by as evil happens' etc., it is worth remembering that all responses whereby you take the law into your own hands should be reasonable having account for all of the circumstances. If there was any real concern an officer could have been on the train within minutes to provide a solution. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crosshair Posted December 13, 2011 Report Share Posted December 13, 2011 A 19 year old student should have had more common sense and manners, swearing and being abusive after he had been drinking. He deserved what he got. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr smith Posted December 13, 2011 Report Share Posted December 13, 2011 an officer could have been on the train within minutes to provide a solution. Really? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guest1957 Posted December 13, 2011 Report Share Posted December 13, 2011 Really? The BTP always seem to run like clockwork when I see them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kdubya Posted December 13, 2011 Report Share Posted December 13, 2011 The 'big guy' had no authority, either legal or moral, to behave as he did. The only two groups of people who should have had any involvement with a removal from the train under the circumstances in the video would be either police officers or agents of the train company. I suspect the guy involved thinks of himself as a 'big man' and likes other people to think of him in this way also. He saw an opportunity to demonstrate to others that he is a 'big man' and took it to flatter his own ego. There are all sorts of odd interpretations of the law floating around this thread. As for things about 'good men standing by as evil happens' etc., it is worth remembering that all responses whereby you take the law into your own hands should be reasonable having account for all of the circumstances. If there was any real concern an officer could have been on the train within minutes to provide a solution. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h1tY83PKwjc&feature=related Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr smith Posted December 13, 2011 Report Share Posted December 13, 2011 The BTP always seem to run like clockwork when I see them. And when would that be? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muddy Funker Posted December 13, 2011 Report Share Posted December 13, 2011 Dont hide behind your gun licence. No one would touch your licence if you were upholding the law and any solicitor would soon back you up. There is too much talk on this forum about losing your licence for nothing, a lot of it is in the mind. If a copper comes to take your licence when you are innocent then that is bullying and he wouldnt have a leg to stand on in a legal challenge. There are loads of things you can genuinely lose your licence for but dont let the irrational fear of losing it stop you from being a man!! I'm so glad someone has said it. Jesus some people here must wrap themselves up in cotton wool and never leave the house for fear of losing their licence Depending on IF the lad was swearing then section 3 of the criminal law act covers the 'big man' "A person may use such force as is reasonable in the circumstances in the prevention of crime, or in effecting or assisting in the lawful arrest of offenders or suspected offenders or of persons unlawfully at large" Swearing is a public order offence and so 'big man' is acting lawfully in preventing it. The only problem I see is the reasonable force aspect. If those injuries were a result of him being thrown onto the platform then I can see 'big man' getting nicked sus abh fairly soon. He would've been fine just escorting him from the train, not throwing him from it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cottonseed Posted December 13, 2011 Report Share Posted December 13, 2011 The most amazing thing about this is that formerly isolated, tiny incidents are now being filmed on mobile phones and uploaded to You Tube and...next thing they're front page news with yards of Internet discussion. With the Emma West case last week, we now have newspapers full of non-celebrity 'gossip' as well as the usual celebrity ****. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MM Posted December 13, 2011 Report Share Posted December 13, 2011 You do not know what type of "man" I am. Ejecting a passenger from a train is assault, fact. The Transport Police should have been involved not "a big man" who did assault the lad. No one's life was in danger, the lad was not a threat to anyone at all, but "a big man" had to stick his nose in and could be charged, really in this day and age you have to weigh up the pros and con's before you get involved. In a life threatening situation different action might need to be taken, but to me that was a bully showing off. i would hsve typed the sdame thing, but im on the wifes netbook and the keys are tiny. As previously stated, ANYONE can use "reasonable" force to prevent crime, and as far as i am aware, fare evasion is a criminal offence.. which should be dealt with by the police. myself and mr smith have worked on the railway for many years, and trust me, it aint worth getting involved in., the police are paid to deal with this type of stuff, not the public. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cockercas Posted December 13, 2011 Report Share Posted December 13, 2011 Quote I take it that most people on here have either an fac or sgc, if you did eject a person off a train or a bus and they pressed charges... bang goes your gun...so to speak. We cannot afford to become embroiled in a situation like this, I get into scuffles/fights on a weekly bases. I don't go looking for trouble but I have a very short temper. Take yesterday. I stopped the traffic for about 3 min while a wagon with a trailer backed onto my site. Some bloke about 5th in the que didn't like it and started beeping his horn and shouting abuse. When I let the traffic go he stopped abit behind me started shouting abuse again. I told him to shut his mouth or I'll shut it for him. He then proceeded to try and run me over I stepped back he missed and drove down the road. 30 yards down the road was traffic lights. They was red. He stopped and I marched over their. Now I was pretty angry the lights changed green and he drove off now if the lights haddent changed green he would of well better not say. But just because I have sgc/fac dosent mean I'm going to let people push me around. Nor should you. Good on the big fella. If ther was more like him then the country wouldn't be down the pan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cockercas Posted December 13, 2011 Report Share Posted December 13, 2011 Having sgc/fac keeps my temper in check so to speak Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr smith Posted December 13, 2011 Report Share Posted December 13, 2011 i would hsve typed the sdame thing, but im on the wifes netbook and the keys are tiny. Yes we can see that.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlaserF3 Posted December 13, 2011 Report Share Posted December 13, 2011 Quote I take it that most people on here have either an fac or sgc, if you did eject a person off a train or a bus and they pressed charges... bang goes your gun...so to speak. We cannot afford to become embroiled in a situation like this, I get into scuffles/fights on a weekly bases. I don't go looking for trouble but I have a very short temper. Take yesterday. I stopped the traffic for about 3 min while a wagon with a trailer backed onto my site. Some bloke about 5th in the que didn't like it and started beeping his horn and shouting abuse. When I let the traffic go he stopped abit behind me started shouting abuse again. I told him to shut his mouth or I'll shut it for him. He then proceeded to try and run me over I stepped back he missed and drove down the road. 30 yards down the road was traffic lights. They was red. He stopped and I marched over their. Now I was pretty angry the lights changed green and he drove off now if the lights haddent changed green he would of well better not say. But just because I have sgc/fac dosent mean I'm going to let people push me around. Nor should you. Good on the big fella. If ther was more like him then the country wouldn't be down the pan If you were armed would you have shot him when you were angry? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr smith Posted December 13, 2011 Report Share Posted December 13, 2011 (edited) which should be dealt with by the police. myself and mr smith have worked on the railway for many years, and trust me, it aint worth getting involved in., the police are paid to deal with this type of stuff, not the public. Part of the problem is you can't rely on the police (BTP or civvy)to attend esp in a very short time scale as almost all train companies worry about is the cost of delays and don't want trains hanging around waiting for police.On the other hand they want guards to get every last penny but will give little back up,it's fairly unusual for guards to go as far as the chap on that train as most feel their peeing against the wind. Edited December 13, 2011 by mr smith Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MM Posted December 13, 2011 Report Share Posted December 13, 2011 Part of the problem is you can't rely on the police (BTP or civvy)to attend esp in a very short time scale as almost all train companies worry about is the cost of delays and don't want trains hanging around waiting for police.On the other hand they want guards to get every last penny but will give little back up,it's fairly unusual for guards to go as far as the chap on that train as most feel their peeing against the wind. yup,i know 3exactloy what you mean. its a shame the staff get the pooey end of the stick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roadkill Posted December 13, 2011 Report Share Posted December 13, 2011 Pat on the back for the big man we need more of his kind , the uk is turning into a bad place to live just goes to show with the riots that happened not so long a go .... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cockercas Posted December 13, 2011 Report Share Posted December 13, 2011 Are you stupid or just daft? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlaserF3 Posted December 13, 2011 Report Share Posted December 13, 2011 I thought that normal procedure is to ring the next station and have Police waiting there rather than delay the train. You are also given the choice to pay, if you have not the money they will send a bill to your home address. Are you stupid or just daft? Could be a bit of both...are you really a fit person to have a gun if your temper is that bad? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
englishman-in-wales Posted December 13, 2011 Report Share Posted December 13, 2011 if you have not the money they will send a bill to your home address haha result...i'm takin the girls to Edinburgh next year, wonder if they do 0% instalments.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artschool Posted December 13, 2011 Report Share Posted December 13, 2011 trains are too expensive anyway. definately assault. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr smith Posted December 13, 2011 Report Share Posted December 13, 2011 I thought that normal procedure is to ring the next station and have Police waiting there rather than delay the train. You are also given the choice to pay, if you have not the money they will send a bill to your home address. Unfortunately by the time you've reached a station where the police will attend the non-payer will have got off at the station they wanted in the first place and they know it. Bills are only sent out if fare over a certain amount and of course your relying on them giving you their actual address. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cockercas Posted December 13, 2011 Report Share Posted December 13, 2011 Well I've shot since I was old enough to pull the trigger. I have been in confrantions when I have had a gun never felt the urge to shoot someone tho. You see that's what's wrong with society today. You thort first about shooting them. 99% of the time its the threat that makes someone back down. Nobody actually wants a kicking do they. Another story from the past. I was 15 shooting rabbits with my air rifle a bloke who lives near the field had had abit to drink and decide he didn't like me. Come over shouting the odds and told me he was going to kick the **** into me. I unloaded the gun lent it against a tree walked up to him and said let's go. And that was it. The end of it. He is polite and always talks to me now. The dog that barks the loudest wins. So no I wouldn't shoot someone but if I didn't have guns I probably wouldn't hold back so much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vole Posted December 13, 2011 Report Share Posted December 13, 2011 It is refreshing to see the old guys dishing it out for a change , so I support them here . Remember the riots ? Turkish and Asian shopkeepers put us lot to shame with their willingness to do the right thing and fight off the yobs . We might be losing the plot a bit . I would not like to see a younger kid ejected off public transport though these days . If my daughter were to lose her bus ticket I expect she would not be dumped in the middle of nowhere . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlaserF3 Posted December 13, 2011 Report Share Posted December 13, 2011 Well I've shot since I was old enough to pull the trigger. I have been in confrantions when I have had a gun never felt the urge to shoot someone tho. You see that's what's wrong with society today. You thort first about shooting them. 99% of the time its the threat that makes someone back down. Nobody actually wants a kicking do they. Another story from the past. I was 15 shooting rabbits with my air rifle a bloke who lives near the field had had abit to drink and decide he didn't like me. Come over shouting the odds and told me he was going to kick the **** into me. I unloaded the gun lent it against a tree walked up to him and said let's go. And that was it. The end of it. He is polite and always talks to me now. The dog that barks the loudest wins. So no I wouldn't shoot someone but if I didn't have guns I probably wouldn't hold back so much. I've always tried to avoid confrontations, not that I am scared but it's just common sense, you could end up dead or the other person could, it's so easy to kill someone that it's just not worth it. I know what you are saying about the loudest bark but what happens if you are just attacked without the usual false bravado? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
libs Posted December 13, 2011 Report Share Posted December 13, 2011 He's probably confused because of being in that tent so long outside st. pauls cathedral!! Having worked on and off with/for the Conservative party I can assure you I am not confused when it comes to political ideals and opinions. Also I always have to remember there is a good Doc and a bad one on here. I am very sure which one has his tongue grafted into the rectal orifice of this 'big man' who is causing such a stir! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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