Make sure it fits......

[timps]

Someone asks about which gun he / she should buy and immediately there are 10 posts along the lines of make sure it fits, fit make sure it does, just go for the one that fits, whatever you do make sure it fits.......

 

What I find strange is no one advises the OP how to make sure it fits and the OP never asks how they should check it fits.

Is ‘make sure it fits’ something people feel the need to post as it’s the done thing on PW or is there some mileage to it.

 

Let’s take entry level Brownings and Berettas for instance, while I do accept they handle and feel different, but in terms of who they will or will not fit is there much of a difference?

 

They both go for the mass market and ‘fit ‘ the typical shooter so if one doesn’t fit you chances are the other will not either.

 

How do you make sure it fits?

What are the main criterion / criteria?

Is there much difference between the manufacturers (not in how they feel but who they fit)?

 

Cast and comb height are the main points for me (getting the master eye over the rib), I like a Monte Carlo type stock so invariably end up with an adjustable so I can make my own.

However I have borrowed and shot guns way too low in the comb for me, adjusted my mount and put in mid to high 80’s on the sporting layout with them so often wonder should I bother.

 

If I was in the market for an entry level Browning or Beretta neither would 'fit' me off the shelf so should the new PW saying be ‘make sure it’s adjustable’?

 

Just interested in other people opinions.

[Thunderbird]

OK well in my case it was a matter of getting some cast put on it because when I mounted it out of the box I found myself looking down the left side of the rib. I knew it would need some small adjustment.

 

Nigel Teague is practically a neighbour of mine, so I took it to him as he's an expert (not just on chokes) and he told me what I (and it) needed.

 

Since having this done it fits and feels great and I scored my highest score ever the other day with it in a comp, 36 out of 40.

 

It definitely fits now

[Underdog]

I imagine a bird lifting or passing with my eyes shut and mount the sgun and swing. Then I stop and open my eye to see if it is over the rib central with just a bit up front showing. I do the same in a mirror and look at me aiming at me. In the mirror my eye should be just above the bead without adjusting any part of me.

 

In the field I tend to hold my head higher than when I try at the shop/home so I bear this in mind!

 

HTH

 

U.

[Mike525steel]

I always put the gun up to my shoulder and then try and put face onto the stock where it should be and make it so I can look along the rib.

 

If I have to duck my head too much and it feels in natural then the gun either needs the comb raising or surprisingly enough as is the case with my 525 the stock needed some serious length adding. 2 1/2 inches.

 

Is works for me and I can usually work it out this way.

 

An important one to look at is how you trigger arm fits around the gun as if your finger is able to wrap around the trigger then you will need extra length added.

 

I do agree that it is possible to shoot well with an ill fitting gun ie a borrowed gun and shoot well... But I think you concentrate more on your mount and target view when it's a one off

Edited December 13, 2011 by Mike525steel

[cockercas]

I don't know just get on the laser at the shop. The main thing IMO is to get the gun YOU want. If it dosent fit a good smith will make it fit. If you really want gun x but get gun z. You won't enjoy shooting it as much. And ultimately enjoyment is what we shoot for

[EdSolomons]

No doubt I'll get a lot of flack for this but hey ho...!

Gunfit, particularly for improvers/club shots is one of the most hyped up things going. It really is not the be all and and all. I always go on length and hight of comb being the two "important" elements, namely avoiding a stock that is too low or too long. If it's a bit too short/high you can still hit an awfull lot. Cast, unless it it a mile off, which it is unlikely to be can be made to work by adjusting you stance, either opening up or standing more side on.

The problem is there are a lot of people writing in magazines making out it is the only thing standing between you and a sudden massive spike in scores; take it from me it ain't. It is in these "coaches" and I use the term loosely interest to get you to spend xxx on tweaking your gun left right and centre when they should be working on far more fundamental issues. I have seen people having a certain "coach" adjust there gun by millimetres in every possible direction over a period of 12 months, doing nothing but screwing the poor guy up.

Unless you plan on doing a whole lot of FITASC or want to use move mount shoot a lot (and why on earth would you?) close enough really is good enough.

Tin hat on!!

[Thunderbird]

To an extent I agree with that. No point in worrying about the fit too much if your mount is rubbish and inconsistent.

 

Also a beginner can make themselves fit the gun by pre mounting it, settling it in and then having a go.

[Spara Dritto]

Tin hat on!!

 

Sounds good to me... Although, the 5 or 6 coaches I know personally, are all very good.

[woodcock1]

I started off my shooting with an ill fitting aya sxs. Over the years I got better and learned to shoot very well with it. You learn the sight picture for every shot and just know where to point just like shooting a rifle allowing for windage, elevation etc. The next gun I bought from a local gun dealer who was very much into fitting a gun to me and I chose a gun that actually fitted me rather than one I wanted. I turned out to be a Franchi Falconette. Problem was now I had to learn to shoot all over again as all the sight pictures that I had memorised were now all different.

 

With practice you can get onto any gun no matter where it points. For the occasional shooter though it makes a lot more sense to have a gun shoot where you point it. I would only ever buy a gun now that 'fits'. The only way to be sure of this though is take it to the pattern plate aim at a point and see where the shot ends up! A bit like zeroing a rifle I suppose

[Chard]

No doubt I'll get a lot of flack for this but hey ho...!

Gunfit, particularly for improvers/club shots is one of the most hyped up things going. It really is not the be all and and all. I always go on length and hight of comb being the two "important" elements, namely avoiding a stock that is too low or too long. If it's a bit too short/high you can still hit an awfull lot. Cast, unless it it a mile off, which it is unlikely to be can be made to work by adjusting you stance, either opening up or standing more side on.

The problem is there are a lot of people writing in magazines making out it is the only thing standing between you and a sudden massive spike in scores; take it from me it ain't. It is in these "coaches" and I use the term loosely interest to get you to spend xxx on tweaking your gun left right and centre when they should be working on far more fundamental issues. I have seen people having a certain "coach" adjust there gun by millimetres in every possible direction over a period of 12 months, doing nothing but screwing the poor guy up.

Unless you plan on doing a whole lot of FITASC or want to use move mount shoot a lot (and why on earth would you?) close enough really is good enough.

Tin hat on!!

 

 

Spot on and well said

 

Everybody should know what they should be seeing down the rib. When you pick up a new gun and mount it, most of us can make tiny adjustments to our mount, till we see that sight picture down the rib. After a couple of shoots, it comes second nature to mount it the right way. I certainly don't need some chump charging me £150 to get it to within half a millimetre of perfect (a measurement that will be miles out as soon as I put a coat on). Load of cobblers.

[fenboy]

I think unless you are a really good shot in most cases a off the peg gun will fit most people well enough that they hit a decent amount of targets , I think the main thing with gun fit is that it can turn a very good shot into a very,very good one as it helps do away with those little inconsistancys of gun mount. there are occasion when off the peg guns dont fit at all for me Winchester autos are awful and i literaly could not hit a thing with one I brought a few years ago.

[Harnser]

When buying a gun the correct fit is the last thing that you should be worrying about . Price ,model and condition are what you should pay attention to . Mass produced guns are all made to the magical average size ,which means that it nearly fits everybody but dont fit anyone . Its not expensive to have a gun fitted to yourself by a competent gun smith . Most people will be able to shoot most guns out of the box without any alteration . Muscle memory is soon learned by mounting the gun in practice indoors in front of a mirror .

 

Harnser .

[Paddy Galore!]

 

 

I certainly don't need some chump charging me £150 to get it to within half a millimetre of perfect (a measurement that will be miles out as soon as I put a coat on). Load of cobblers.

gets my vote

[Shropshire_Lad]

As a left hander buying a right handed sxs and having it fit was the best thing I have ever had done...no more sore man boob! toe pushed out and real comfy. When after a sporter o/u in left hand I went to Hodnet and talked to Duncan Lawton at length about gun fit and the outshot was pretty much if it was for clays at my level nearly everything from straight to slightly cast on was good enough but stock length was a problem with Brownings for me a little too long me being a short ****. He kind of dismissed the whole thing saying for clays gun fit was not that important, this from a man that can look over your shoulder, guide your gun say pull and make you dust them! top bloke all the same.

 

atvb Paul.

[Mr Potter]

No doubt I'll get a lot of flack for this but hey ho...!

Gunfit, particularly for improvers/club shots is one of the most hyped up things going. It really is not the be all and and all. I always go on length and hight of comb being the two "important" elements, namely avoiding a stock that is too low or too long. If it's a bit too short/high you can still hit an awfull lot. Cast, unless it it a mile off, which it is unlikely to be can be made to work by adjusting you stance, either opening up or standing more side on.

The problem is there are a lot of people writing in magazines making out it is the only thing standing between you and a sudden massive spike in scores; take it from me it ain't. It is in these "coaches" and I use the term loosely interest to get you to spend xxx on tweaking your gun left right and centre when they should be working on far more fundamental issues. I have seen people having a certain "coach" adjust there gun by millimetres in every possible direction over a period of 12 months, doing nothing but screwing the poor guy up.

Unless you plan on doing a whole lot of FITASC or want to use move mount shoot a lot (and why on earth would you?) close enough really is good enough.

Tin hat on!!

This isn't the first (and probably wont be the last) time I say this but I agree with Ed wholeheartedly. If the comb height is too low you wont even be able to see the target and if too long you'd be unable to reach the trigger

 

But how do the majority of shooter hit the majority of their targets when I suspect most are using a gun straight out of the box? Well most of the people I know on the circuit have not got adjustable combs & stocks nor have they had their stocks altered in any major way, they might have lengthened or shortened it but no expensive stock work. If anyone could afford to do it I'm certain if you went to see 10 different coaches/gunfitters you would come away with at least as many different solutions

 

My theory, for what it's worth, is that after a relatively short time you learn your sight pictures and start hitting things! Ten different shooters straighten a stand and everyone will describe what they saw differently, I don't see a millimetre of lead on 99% of right to left crossers whilst others may see x metres. Is what I see because the cast on my gun is miles out or is it due to my R to L gunswing being much faster than my L to R. I think it's the latter but if it was the former I wouldn't want to "correct" it cos I'd have to learn that sight picture all over again and to be brutally honest I'm not getting any younger

 

So don't get hung up on gunfit get totally into your sight pictures and you'll be OK.

Oh and the bit of advice that is crucial, well other than seeing a competent coach and pointing the gun in the right place , is that if you miss - do something different because, surprise surprise if you do the same again the outcome wont be any different, another miss. Give it some more lead if it's a crosser and if that doesn't work cut your lead right back and finally unless you are at least an AA aspiring to AAA class don't handicap yourself with tight chokes,anymore than half and all you'll do is miss more accurately.

 

Hope this is of some use, if it is send 2 guineas to Potter c/o somewhere in Cheshire.

[chris t]

being fairly short, I find there are almost no guns that fit me.

So I try what I like and if it feels OK, then I go from there.

 

The Benelli I bought recently has interchangeable recoil pads, so have ordered a thin one since length of pull tends to be the main issue for me.

But like many autos it comes with the different shims, so I can try those out if I still feel it's not right after changing the pad.

 

It's nice for me to have a gun I can alter the fit of without having to have it adapted by a gunsmith.

[Shropshire_Lad]

This isn't the first (and probably wont be the last) time I say this but I agree with Ed wholeheartedly. If the comb height is too low you wont even be able to see the target and if too long you'd be unable to reach the trigger

 

But how do the majority of shooter hit the majority of their targets when I suspect most are using a gun straight out of the box? Well most of the people I know on the circuit have not got adjustable combs & stocks nor have they had their stocks altered in any major way, they might have lengthened or shortened it but no expensive stock work. If anyone could afford to do it I'm certain if you went to see 10 different coaches/gunfitters you would come away with at least as many different solutions

 

My theory, for what it's worth, is that after a relatively short time you learn your sight pictures and start hitting things! Ten different shooters straighten a stand and everyone will describe what they saw differently, I don't see a millimetre of lead on 99% of right to left crossers whilst others may see x metres. Is what I see because the cast on my gun is miles out or is it due to my R to L gunswing being much faster than my L to R. I think it's the latter but if it was the former I wouldn't want to "correct" it cos I'd have to learn that sight picture all over again and to be brutally honest I'm not getting any younger

 

So don't get hung up on gunfit get totally into your sight pictures and you'll be OK.

Oh and the bit of advice that is crucial, well other than seeing a competent coach and pointing the gun in the right place , is that if you miss - do something different because, surprise surprise if you do the same again the outcome wont be any different, another miss. Give it some more lead if it's a crosser and if that doesn't work cut your lead right back and finally unless you are at least an AA aspiring to AAA class don't handicap yourself with tight chokes,anymore than half and all you'll do is miss more accurately.

 

Hope this is of some use, if it is send 2 guineas to Potter c/o somewhere in Cheshire.

 

Fantastic!, don't hold your breath for the guineas though.

[Thunderbird]

Some cracking advice on this thread in my opinion. Experience and sight picture have got to be two of the most key elements to consistently good shooting.

[Underdog]

As a left hander buying a right handed sxs and having it fit was the best thing I have ever had done...no more sore man boob! toe pushed out and real comfy. When after a sporter o/u in left hand I went to Hodnet and talked to Duncan Lawton at length about gun fit and the outshot was pretty much if it was for clays at my level nearly everything from straight to slightly cast on was good enough but stock length was a problem with Brownings for me a little too long me being a short ****. He kind of dismissed the whole thing saying for clays gun fit was not that important, this from a man that can look over your shoulder, guide your gun say pull and make you dust them! top bloke all the same.

 

atvb Paul.

Top bloke Duncan You want to see him on pheasants, the one time I saw him miss I also saw him take a double take himself

 

U.

[Scully]

At last!I've been trying to tell people this for years!No-one,not even the best gunfitter in the world,can fit a gun to someone who cannot consistently mount a gun in the same place each and every time.Most of us choose a gun we like,then learn to shoot with it.

Beginners should ideally find a good coach who can steer them in the right direction,but one of the easiest things you can do to test your mount with a strange gun,is to stand in front of a mirror with the gun,close your eyes,and then mount the gun.Open your eyes to see where your master eye is in relation to the rib.This wont work for a beginner,and it wont work if you are an experienced shot and you've already mounted the gun a couple of times with your eyes open,as you will automatically adjust your mount to compensate if the sight picture wasn't correct the first time you did it.

[Shropshire_Lad]

Top bloke Duncan You want to see him on pheasants, the one time I saw him miss I also saw him take a double take himself

 

U.

 

Lol, My shooting partner has a copy of him shooting the Pheasants at a local shoot.......they were a looooong time coming down. He is a true gent, My wife, daughters, friends have all gone to him for help, I can't speak highly enough of him. One man that has reached the top and is willing to give some back to us.

 

atvb Paul

[EdSolomons]

Think someone has written a book on the perfect gun fit- that's like writing a book on how long is a bit of string. His idea of perfect will be a long way off mine, which will be a long way off the bloke at Hollands and so on.

I'm afraid I see a lot of people trying to make shooting sporting well a lot more complex than it actually is, to justify the hourly rate. Shooting sporting to a high level is hard work and common sense- not 25,000 shells a year, hand fitted gun and masses of overly complex explanations as some would like you to think.

It's a simple game, you have to learn how to play it, and im afraid there is no short cut otherwise there would be a lot more guys in the mid/high 90s each week!

[timps]

No doubt I'll get a lot of flack for this but hey ho...!

Gunfit, particularly for improvers/club shots is one of the most hyped up things going. It really is not the be all and and all. I always go on length and hight of comb being the two "important" elements, namely avoiding a stock that is too low or too long. If it's a bit too short/high you can still hit an awfull lot. Cast, unless it it a mile off, which it is unlikely to be can be made to work by adjusting you stance, either opening up or standing more side on.

The problem is there are a lot of people writing in magazines making out it is the only thing standing between you and a sudden massive spike in scores; take it from me it ain't. It is in these "coaches" and I use the term loosely interest to get you to spend xxx on tweaking your gun left right and centre when they should be working on far more fundamental issues. I have seen people having a certain "coach" adjust there gun by millimetres in every possible direction over a period of 12 months, doing nothing but screwing the poor guy up.

Unless you plan on doing a whole lot of FITASC or want to use move mount shoot a lot (and why on earth would you?) close enough really is good enough.

Tin hat on!!

I think you are spot on as well so no tin hat needed for me, I only use the adjustable to raise comb height and my cast is unadjusted on both my O/U guns.

 

My auto is fixed stock and is not set up exactly how I would like it but I never have a problem shooting it, I am just more careful with my mount as if I bury my cheek into the comb it’s a bit low for me but I actually have a laugh shooting it and if it was my main gun I would get used to it or raise the comb with tape.

 

I have my DT10 set up how I like it, but it’s nothing I could not achieve with some insulation tape and card on any other gun.

 

I just see all these ‘make sure it fits’ posts and wondered if I was missing something.

 

I am still not convinced there is a big difference in fit (not feel or personal preference) between like for like Browning and Beretta’s that one would be ok and the other not.

[EdSolomons]

I think there are a lot of snake oil/magic bean salesmen in the shooting industry!

Confidence in yourself and equipment is needed to progress, but as with everything it has it's place. As long as the choke is "wrong", shell is too fast/slow/wrong colour etc then you perceive the problem to be out of your control, therefore you cannot solve it.

The sooner people can look at themselves and admit that the missing is down to them, the sooner they will progress.

There is a guy I coach who despite being AAA and now being in one of the end of year top 20s still struggles to take responsibility for his actions, and I believe he won't progress to the next level until he can do so.

Long story short- it's all on YOU!

[Chard]

Make sure it fits..... :o :o