OldBill Posted January 11, 2012 Report Share Posted January 11, 2012 If it's correct that the deer was semi tame (I don't know) then the kill was very wrong. Culling in a park is acceptable, killing tame deer released into the wild isn't any kind of sport. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunkield Posted January 11, 2012 Report Share Posted January 11, 2012 This is what is different about the UK to US for example. People often refer to US as the land of plenty shooting wise but it simply isn't the case, they need tags to shoot, we on the other hand can shoot anything that enters our land (within the bounds of the law) it is up to us as shooters and conservationists to make the right decisions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher Graffius Posted January 11, 2012 Report Share Posted January 11, 2012 The photo and words that accompany it were published on the letters page of the BASC magazine. We are obviously unable to investigate the background to each letter and photo we receive and I'm conscious that I don't know the circumstances in which this deer was shot. I've asked the editor to inform Mr Jarvis of the reaction to his letter so that he can have the opportunity to tell us about the circumstances. We'd also be prepared to publish a member's letter in the next edition which covers some of the points raised here. Send the letter to the editor jeffrey.olstead@basc.co.uk marked "For Publication". Thanks Christopher Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crouch valley Posted January 11, 2012 Report Share Posted January 11, 2012 Christopher I have already sent an email of disapproval to the write up to Jeffrey olstead and received a reply from him not sure if it will be published but I certainly don't mind if it is Regards Dan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mungler Posted January 11, 2012 Report Share Posted January 11, 2012 In summary, just because you can, doesn't mean you have to. There's plenty of fallow to take all over Essex if you are talking "deer management" and crop / woodland protection. A population of 2 reds wouldn't need "managing" with a rifle. Indeed, in terms of pound for pound crop protection shooting a few more pigeons, rabbits and rats would have delivered a better result, or any of the plentiful supply of fallow and muntjac. I think what speaks most is the quantity of deer stalkers who had the opportunity but didn't pull the trigger. There we go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mal Posted January 11, 2012 Report Share Posted January 11, 2012 I suppose once the truth comes out and we find out he lamped it with his Rimfire from his moving vehicle then we will acknowledge what a true professional he is What a guy, we can all be proud and bow to his greatness. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JR1960 Posted January 11, 2012 Report Share Posted January 11, 2012 I thought initially you actually meant IN Chelmsford!! Having lived there for several years I can think of a lot of things there that do deserve shooting but that's taking it a bit far. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richie10 Posted January 11, 2012 Report Share Posted January 11, 2012 There are tons of people in and around Hanningfield that are shooting the living daylights out of that area, you used to see plenty of muntjac around, soon as they got established they are getting hammered. Used to see them in a local park regular, haven't seen them for 2 years now. Only ones that are safe that stay close to the nature reserve. Same with the rabbits, hares and foxes, it seems these days its about numbers. Just look at the forum, about how many were shot not exceptional experiences. Red move about alot so the fact this area is either unsuitable for this species or shot out before it gets established, the BASC article backs up my latter argument. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomhw100 Posted January 11, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 11, 2012 It seems a bit unusual that a shooter feels outraged about something getting shot. That is unless he's strictly a paper puncher - in which case I kind of understand it - but can't get my head around someone who ONLY uses a gun to punch paper. Not being into deer, would it be right to say that if it was such a magnificent beast it may be past it's prime and going downhill healthwise, and more prone to disease? if you read any of my posts or look at my profile you'll realise im not a paper puncher at all and what a ridiculous accusation to make. just because your a shooter doesnt mean you dont have morals,so as a shooter ureself you wouldnt care if some one blew away a dog in front of you? you couldnt possibly mind because your a shooter... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldBill Posted January 11, 2012 Report Share Posted January 11, 2012 There's plenty of moose in Chelmsford :blink: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomhw100 Posted January 11, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 11, 2012 There are tons of people in and around Hanningfield that are shooting the living daylights out of that area, you used to see plenty of muntjac around, soon as they got established they are getting hammered. Used to see them in a local park regular, haven't seen them for 2 years now. Only ones that are safe that stay close to the nature reserve. Same with the rabbits, hares and foxes, it seems these days its about numbers. Just look at the forum, about how many were shot not exceptional experiences. Red move about alot so the fact this area is either unsuitable for this species or shot out before it gets established, the BASC article backs up my latter argument. Maybe you know people shooting the living daylights out of hanningfield but we dont on the 1500 acres we have we see muntjac nearly evreytime we go out,and my mate controls and he dont even take one every 3 months,theres plenty of foxea and rabbits although they did have mixy last year and we dont even shoot hares atall so i dont no what part of hanningfield you know about but it certainly aint ours! There's plenty of moose in Chelmsford :blink: They seem to gather in the town in great numbers on friday and saturday nights-one of natures marvels Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekers Posted January 11, 2012 Report Share Posted January 11, 2012 The photo and words that accompany it were published on the letters page of the BASC magazine. We are obviously unable to investigate the background to each letter and photo we receive and I'm conscious that I don't know the circumstances in which this deer was shot. I've asked the editor to inform Mr Jarvis of the reaction to his letter so that he can have the opportunity to tell us about the circumstances. We'd also be prepared to publish a member's letter in the next edition which covers some of the points raised here. Send the letter to the editor jeffrey.olstead@basc.co.uk marked "For Publication". Thanks Christopher Oh dear! And just what will that achieve, if he bothers to answer, and just why should he justify anything to someone who doesn't appear to share his views, he will say he wanted to, and he has now got a trophy, and if you don't like it take up knitting! Are we going to start some tree huggers crusade against everyone who hangs a head up in their study and ask for minute detail of their hunt and kill, their background, research, motives, etc? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buckaroo23 Posted January 11, 2012 Report Share Posted January 11, 2012 As much as I would love to shoot a deer if it was in my neck of the woods I think I would let it go, made a mistake by shooting a hare a few months a go, now I havnt seen any around so I wished I had left it, but we learn by our mistakes ATB Danny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tis1979 Posted January 11, 2012 Report Share Posted January 11, 2012 Oh dear! And just what will that achieve, if he bothers to answer, and just why should he justify anything to someone who doesn't appear to share his views, he will say he wanted to, and he has now got a trophy, and if you don't like it take up knitting! Are we going to start some tree huggers crusade against everyone who hangs a head up in their study and ask for minute detail of their hunt and kill, their background, research, motives, etc? No, what has bothered most people is the fact that he shot a Red in an area where they are very rare (he just happened to be a good looking 14 point animal) and then in the email sent to basc said "their management should be taken very seriously"!! Yeah it should by him! If he was not from this area fair enough the guide should no better as I guess he is from here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekers Posted January 11, 2012 Report Share Posted January 11, 2012 (edited) No, what has bothered most people is the fact that he shot a Red in an area where they are very rare (he just happened to be a good looking 14 point animal) and then in the email sent to basc said "their management should be taken very seriously"!! Yeah it should by him! If he was not from this area fair enough the guide should no better as I guess he is from here. Look, I'm playing devils advocate here, and the answer to your response is ..... SO WHAT?, I'm here to get a trophy, they are rare, I don't care if there is only one in the county, if they were in every field it wouldn't be a trophy! Have you ever known a trophy hunter to refuse a shot because the trophy in front of him was rare, that's precisely why he does shoot it, and so you can't come along tomorrow and get another! ATB! PS And judging by some responses Reds are not that uncommon in the area! Edited January 11, 2012 by Dekers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tis1979 Posted January 11, 2012 Report Share Posted January 11, 2012 Look, I'm playing devils advocate here, and the answer to your response is ..... SO WHAT?, I'm here to get a trophy, they are rare, I don't care if there is only one in the county, if they were in every field it wouldn't be a trophy! Have you ever known a trophy hunter to refuse a shot because the trophy in front of him was rare, that's precisely why he does shoot it, and so you can't come along tomorrow and get another! PS And judging by some responses Reds are not that uncommon in the area! Fair comment, but in my opinion these trophy hunters with disregard to how many of what there shooting are around dont do our sport any favours. And whatever posts there are saying there's reds here there wrong as far I know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weejohn Posted January 11, 2012 Report Share Posted January 11, 2012 I just wonder if this topic would of been started if it was a scabby old stag with a rubbish head since a lot of the negative comments are about the lack of red deer in the area. He probably felt that the great opportunity was there to shoot a stag of a lifetime and if he never shot it, it was gauranteed someone else would. Personally i dont do trophy hunting, purely because i couldnt afford it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shootnfish Posted January 11, 2012 Report Share Posted January 11, 2012 Fair comment, but in my opinion these trophy hunters with disregard to how many of what there shooting are around dont do our sport any favours. And whatever posts there are saying there's reds here there wrong as far I know. apart from the three i saw ,i rang you when i was watching them they are rare , even rarer now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harnser Posted January 11, 2012 Report Share Posted January 11, 2012 Red deer are not an endangered species in this country ,in fact if you come to Norfolk you will see them all over the place . OK so they are not so prominent in Essex and some body shoots a fine stag legally in this county . So whats all the fuss about then . I am against trophy hunting and have never been involved in it and would never be involved in it . What I want to know is ,who is going to be the red deer police man and let every body in Essex know when there are enough reds to be shot . Harnser . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave-G Posted January 12, 2012 Report Share Posted January 12, 2012 if you read any of my posts or look at my profile you'll realise im not a paper puncher at all and what a ridiculous accusation to make. just because your a shooter doesnt mean you dont have morals,so as a shooter ureself you wouldnt care if some one blew away a dog in front of you? you couldnt possibly mind because your a shooter... It wasn't an accusation Tom. :blink: Dogs are not listed as a legal quarry species and I doubt if anyone would shoot one in front of anyone else without a very good reason. Sooner or later someone would pay the right price for a shot at any specimen deer, rare or otherwise. :unsure: I don't do deer, so - anyone care to answer my question about such a magnificent specimen passing it's prime and possibly going downhill? If it does go downhill does it become less of a trophy because it perhaps wasn't as fit or alert as one in it's prime or is it simply a case of bigger is better even it it could no longer look after itself? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mungler Posted January 12, 2012 Report Share Posted January 12, 2012 (edited) This is going round in circles, the summary: 1. The kill wasn't illegal 2. Reds are bloody rare in this part of Essex and don't need managing. This was trophy hunting at its finest (but then again, as per 1 above that's not illegal if that's what you're into) 3. Plenty of sportsmen had left the deer in question (and over quite a lengthy period of time) but chummy shot it. 4. We don't have to shoot everything we come across 5. If I was trophy hunting a red in Essex I would keep it on the QT and would not stick a photo of the kill into the BASC mag Edited January 12, 2012 by Mungler Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bakerboy Posted January 12, 2012 Report Share Posted January 12, 2012 This is going round in circles, the summary: 1. The kill wasn't illegal 2. Reds are bloody rare in this part of Essex and don't need managing. This was trophy hunting at its finest (but then again, as per 1 above that's not illegal if that's what you're into) 3. Plenty of sportsmen had left the deer in question (and over quite a lengthy period of time) but chummy shot it. 4. We don't have to shoot everything we come across 5. If I was trophy hunting a red in Essex I would keep it on the QT and would not stick a photo of the kill into the BASC mag The above sums it up perfectly, take the emotion and passion out, and it is as clear as day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomhw100 Posted January 12, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 12, 2012 It wasn't an accusation Tom. :blink: Dogs are not listed as a legal quarry species and I doubt if anyone would shoot one in front of anyone else without a very good reason. Sooner or later someone would pay the right price for a shot at any specimen deer, rare or otherwise. :unsure: I don't do deer, so - anyone care to answer my question about such a magnificent specimen passing it's prime and possibly going downhill? If it does go downhill does it become less of a trophy because it perhaps wasn't as fit or alert as one in it's prime or is it simply a case of bigger is better even it it could no longer look after itself? sorry i jumped the gun ! i know that dogs aren't legal quarry it was just a example of your thought process about shooters,anyway people are saying about him being guiding and rollocks theres no way he would of been guided,who guides people for deer in essex really?! He come across that stag and just got greedy and shot it,from what i see of it looked very healthy,I'm sure once deer to go downhill as you state they do get culled,but like yourself i don't know everything to know about deer all i know is that,that stag didn't need to be shot! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomhw100 Posted January 12, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 12, 2012 Red deer are not an endangered species in this country ,in fact if you come to Norfolk you will see them all over the place . OK so they are not so prominent in Essex and some body shoots a fine stag legally in this county . So whats all the fuss about then . I am against trophy hunting and have never been involved in it and would never be involved in it . What I want to know is ,who is going to be the red deer police man and let every body in Essex know when there are enough reds to be shot . Harnser . there shouldn't be a red deer policeman,people should know the difference between right and wrong,if he's hardly seen any red deer in essex then one day see's one theres only one reason he shot it and that was to get trophy and brag-why else would you send it into the BASC magazine? its like personal constraint in harsh winters for wildfowl,any one with morals or respect for there quarry won't shoot them,but then some do... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomhw100 Posted January 12, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 12, 2012 This is going round in circles, the summary: 1. The kill wasn't illegal 2. Reds are bloody rare in this part of Essex and don't need managing. This was trophy hunting at its finest (but then again, as per 1 above that's not illegal if that's what you're into) 3. Plenty of sportsmen had left the deer in question (and over quite a lengthy period of time) but chummy shot it. 4. We don't have to shoot everything we come across 5. If I was trophy hunting a red in Essex I would keep it on the QT and would not stick a photo of the kill into the BASC mag Well Said! and on that bombshell shall we leave it here-i know all i need to know and that is that the majority of people on PW (like i thought) do have morals and respect for their quarry keep it up chaps! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.