Salopian Posted February 22, 2012 Report Share Posted February 22, 2012 What is the real cost of a commercially produced cartridge? Just asking to try and evaluate if cartridge manufacturers are ripping us off or actually doing us a big favour. We all know about cheap component costs, but how do they justify over £100 per thousand price difference between budget 1oz clay loads and premium game cartridges. Please don't come up with limited production of Game loads, because that argument will not wash with me I'm afraid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rupert Posted February 22, 2012 Report Share Posted February 22, 2012 (edited) i would think about 75% on retail I think there is more mark up on speciality loads due to marketing Edited February 22, 2012 by Rupert Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hamster Posted February 22, 2012 Report Share Posted February 22, 2012 I believe we have a member who works for one of the British loaders but I doubt he'd be willing to disclose the figures. What I have always maintained is the bare faced thieving that goes on particularly with so called Game loads :rolleyes: . The wisdom has always been that these require slightly softer shot to reduce the chance of going straight through quarry :unsure: . Absolute nonsense when you stop and think about it for a nano second. In any case softer should mean cheaper. The only difference between these and clay loads is the shot sizes which are of course much larger for game shells. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Livefast123 Posted February 22, 2012 Report Share Posted February 22, 2012 Maybe one our our reloading fellow PWers could work out the cost of reloading a particularly popular clay round, the Hull Cartridge Comp X 21g. Firms have to make money but are we being ripped off! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deershooter Posted February 22, 2012 Report Share Posted February 22, 2012 I have been on about this for years PRIMERS £ 20 powder 1.4kg £ 45 wads £ 16 shot 28 kg £100 Total £181 This is what you have to pay from the suppliers like Siarm to reload add labour and cases talk about rip off when you can buy cartridges for £155 per 1000 . The wholesale price of these components must only be about 46% of what we pay Deershooter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miroku50 Posted February 22, 2012 Report Share Posted February 22, 2012 Cartridge prices have never been as cheap in real terms as they are now !Take for example eley olympics which can be purchased from £155 /1000 onwards .AS a proportion of an average wage compare it to buying them 20 yrs ago Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nabbers Posted February 22, 2012 Report Share Posted February 22, 2012 My old Mum takes a flask everywhere because she thinks paying a quid for a cup of tea is a rip off. I keep trying to educate her about overheads; it isn't just a tea bag, some hot water and some milk. The question should be why aren't shot shell components cheaper for reloaders? I can make a cup of tea for pennies! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cant hit rabbits 123 Posted February 22, 2012 Report Share Posted February 22, 2012 The major manufactures churn out millions of shells a year, compared to a few thousand for a home loader. They can invest in large machines, buy components in massive bulk, often at trade prices. Its down to the fact that usually the more you make of a product, in terms of mass production, the cheaper it becomes. How many home loaders have the buying power/ability or need to order in 100 000 cases and primers plus a few hundred tonnes of shot in 10 years, let alone a month? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miroku50 Posted February 22, 2012 Report Share Posted February 22, 2012 They might be if you bought 200 tons of lead and a million wads and primers cases etc in one hit like most manufactures do!but i suspect thats too many for most people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phaedra1106 Posted February 22, 2012 Report Share Posted February 22, 2012 If it's any consolation full bore is worse, I just brought back 2000 .30 Nosler Custom Competion bullets and 1000 Berrys Plated 9mm bullets from the US, even with buying them retail from Sinclair/Brownells and paying extra for 2 day shipping I've saved almost £700 on what they cost here without shipping!. Even taking out the cost of my flight I still saved over £300. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nabbers Posted February 22, 2012 Report Share Posted February 22, 2012 It's a rare hobby in the UK, if it were more popular, components would be cheaper for the reloader. There's people on here buying 30 yr old powders Prices are high because it's quirky stuff to stock and sell. Considering the real overheads; insurance, marketing, manufacture, distribution, rent, rates, etc etc, I think the manufacturers are selling em cheap! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deershooter Posted February 22, 2012 Report Share Posted February 22, 2012 I dont do things in small quantities but nothing like the manufacturers though ,I have purchased lead by the ton powder by the barrel and wads 10000 at a time along with 10000 primers but it still doesn't make it cheaper than factory loads I just like doing the reloading its like catching a trout on a fly that you have tied. Deershooter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Floating Chamber Posted February 22, 2012 Report Share Posted February 22, 2012 (edited) Earlier I wrote a large response to the question and used all the information to hand and some of the factors unknown to most shooters; off the top of my head I gave eight good 'reasons' why some shells are more expensive, keeping it as simple as possible. Then, just a while ago, after reading the comments, I tore it up. You know what? I'd be wasting my time. Edited February 22, 2012 by Floating Chamber Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hamster Posted February 22, 2012 Report Share Posted February 22, 2012 Cartridge prices have never been as cheap in real terms as they are now !Take for example eley olympics which can be purchased from £155 /1000 onwards .AS a proportion of an average wage compare it to buying them 20 yrs ago Well over thirty years ago I bought a Casio digital watch for £40, a calculator cost £20 back then. Buy them for a quid these days! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hamster Posted February 22, 2012 Report Share Posted February 22, 2012 The thing is shells prices were kept down for many years but then came the rapid raw material rises which accounted for the climb in prices but the thing that shooters find frustrating is that when prices of those same raw materials dropped, the manufacturers didn't act in kind?! The only thing that will change their ways is to stop buying their shells. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Floating Chamber Posted February 22, 2012 Report Share Posted February 22, 2012 (edited) Cartridge prices have never been as cheap in real terms as they are now !Take for example eley olympics which can be purchased from £155 /1000 onwards .AS a proportion of an average wage compare it to buying them 20 yrs ago True. Edited February 22, 2012 by Floating Chamber Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coyotemaster Posted February 22, 2012 Report Share Posted February 22, 2012 As a reloader of both rifle and shotgun I can honestly say that you can save quite a bit on rifle roloading and make better ammunition--at least tailor it to your own rifle /shooting style/needs. With shot shells with lead at $35/25# bag and buying wads/primers/powder in bulk it still costs me around .15 per pop while factory loads at Wallyworld are .22 apiece. Not a huge savings if you factor in time, machine costs,time spent procuring components etc. BUT I can reload nice light recoiling loads with high antimony shot that really work well and I load steel as well and could load hevishot but component price is huge on it as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acid House Posted February 22, 2012 Report Share Posted February 22, 2012 Now I may be wrong but aint clay shot made in a dripper and big game shot dropped from a tower. Now that's got to be more expensive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Floating Chamber Posted February 22, 2012 Report Share Posted February 22, 2012 Now I may be wrong but aint clay shot made in a dripper and big game shot dropped from a tower. Now that's got to be more expensive. 'Big' game shot is 'headed'. Lead wire is drawn between two contra-rotating wheels with hemispherical hollows. ...the resulting rough pellets are polished. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted February 23, 2012 Report Share Posted February 23, 2012 Earlier I wrote a large response to the question and used all the information to hand and some of the factors unknown to most shooters; off the top of my head I gave eight good 'reasons' why some shells are more expensive, keeping it as simple as possible. Then, just a while ago, after reading the comments, I tore it up. You know what? I'd be wasting my time. That's a shame because the one chap who has made no comment, stupid, adverse or otherwise, is the one who was looking for the answer having asked the question. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vince Green Posted February 23, 2012 Report Share Posted February 23, 2012 Cartridge prices have never been as cheap in real terms as they are now !Take for example eley olympics which can be purchased from £155 /1000 onwards .AS a proportion of an average wage compare it to buying them 20 yrs ago Thats absolutely true, before the first world war a box of 25 cartridge was eqivilent to about half a days wages for the average working man. Now his grandson can easily buy ten times that amount with half a days wages. With my first job 40 years ago my wages bought me less than 12 boxes of Eley Grand Prix. Thats three hours work per box. Whats it now to earn enough to buy a box? 10-15 minutes? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hamster Posted February 23, 2012 Report Share Posted February 23, 2012 Now I may be wrong but aint clay shot made in a dripper and big game shot dropped from a tower. Now that's got to be more expensive. I can't see why one would be any more expensive than the other, the tower method utilises existing towers that have been up for decades. Also there is a definite overlap between Game and Clay loads, as in the case of 6.5 and 7 shot. Yet you still see a vast difference between the prices of even these . Sorry if some feel they have all the answers but somehow we're not worthy , the silence from Fred Goodwin was deafening too. The reason for the difference is simple, because they can. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hamster Posted February 23, 2012 Report Share Posted February 23, 2012 (edited) Thats absolutely true, before the first world war a box of 25 cartridge was eqivilent to about half a days wages for the average working man. Now his grandson can easily buy ten times that amount with half a days wages. With my first job 40 years ago my wages bought me less than 12 boxes of Eley Grand Prix. Thats three hours work per box. Whats it now to earn enough to buy a box? 10-15 minutes? Sorry but that's a spurious argument, as I mentioned in an earlier post many commodities have gone down in price by a factor of hundreds. Cartridge prices had to also go down in price as economies of scale and competition in the different era's are utterly different. Edited February 23, 2012 by Hamster Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Floating Chamber Posted February 23, 2012 Report Share Posted February 23, 2012 Thats absolutely true, before the first world war a box of 25 cartridge was eqivilent to about half a days wages for the average working man. Now his grandson can easily buy ten times that amount with half a days wages. With my first job 40 years ago my wages bought me less than 12 boxes of Eley Grand Prix. Thats three hours work per box. Whats it now to earn enough to buy a box? 10-15 minutes? Same here, Vince. Fifty-odd years ago, Grand Prix were 75p for 25 and I could have bought six boxes if I spent ALL of my weeks wages on shells! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dougall Posted February 23, 2012 Report Share Posted February 23, 2012 Um..I think it is a pretty efficient market,there is a lot of competition and producers.In the 1970s I think 25 cartridges were about £3,in real terms much cheaper now.Now I would not be surprised if there is a soft cartel in operation but to do honest I think cartridges are good value. In answer to game load costs I would guess they charge what people will pay..a bit like most markets..I have no doubt there is more margin on game loads,but again these are sold in less quantity than clay loads and game shooters typically have deeper pockets than clay shooters.. The component costs/Euro/transportation costs have not helped in the last 2 years but compared to when I was sent pigeon shooting with just 3 cartridges shells are now cheap! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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