.17hmr or .22lr

[crazyfrog]

I am looking at getting either a .17hmr or .22lr, I have read a lot on the subject but was wondering if anyone has any advice as to the pros and cons with regards to flatter trajectory, ammo cost, wear and tear, accuracy etc etc. thanks

[artschool]

just get a decent .22lr. they are virtually silent cheap ammo cost and the most versatile of rifle.

[TaxiDriver]

22lr is cheap to run on subs(around £5 per 50)but I think it takes some skill to go out past 70-80yrds, can be prone to ricochets.

.17hmr I have only seen/heard being used, I think is more like £10-£12 per 50, much noisier due to bullets faster speed, but easier to shoot out to further distances due to the flatter trajectory.

[bedwards1966]

What are you shooting with it, what sort of ranges are you shooting at and what sort of land do you have? Is it flat, stony, wet etc in which case a .22 can be more prone to ricochet.

These are all important things when deciding which to go for.

 

If your shooting at rabbits, crows, pigeons etc then a .22 is good, if you want to take a few foxes too then a .17 may be sensible.

If the land is flat/stony then a .22 may be dangerous due to ricochet, in which case you'd need a .17.

If you're shooting beyond around 80-100 yards then a .17 is probably better, unless you are very good at estimating hold over.

.22 ammo is considerably cheaper and using subsonic rounds it's almost silent, a .17 makes a loud crack due to be being supersonic.

I don't think barrel wear is really an issue, .22's don't really wear out and I think you'd have to do a lot of shooting to wear out a .17.

 

If you still aren't sure, apply for bother calibres, you don't have to buy both and it gives you longer to make up your mind, or you can try one then change it or keep it without the hassle of a variation.

Edited March 12, 2012 by bedwards1966

[Schmoo]

I was asking myself that a few weeks ago, I ended up aplying for a .22lr semi for day work a .22lr bolt for lamping and a 17hmr for long range rabbits and ground crows.

I should have most bases covered with those.

I will get a ..22 first and see how things go, if I am struggling with distance then I may consider getting a 17hmr, but will see if the .22 does it all first, I think a .22 should, may just be a long range weapon the 17hmr, something of a luxary as and when I can afford to run one !!!!!

Schmoo.

Edited March 12, 2012 by Schmoo

[kent]

Firstly if you think your ground might not be safe enough for .22LR on the ricochet front then IT WONT BE SAFE FOR HMR EITHER! The only thing that might be worthwhile is an FAC rated air rifle in this rgards due to the drasically reduced energy.

 

.22LR is the worlds most popular civilian rifle and nothing will ever challenge it. 17 hmr is a nice to have longer range vermin gun but still it is limited by poor windages and inconsistant terminals. In the right hands it will double the range the same shooter has with the HMR, however were do you stop with that one .22 Hornet, .222, .223, 22-250, .20 ruger - It goes on and on It is far noisier and the ammo is considerably more expensive.

 

The .22 LR comes with a Mass of different ammo from low power CB,BB caps producing around 30ftlb to the most common .22 Subsonic which is to all intent and puropse nil report with a moderator producing approx 80 ft lb energy up to some of the High velocity rounds with over 120ft lb on tap. It is far cheaper to feed than a HMR and in a large variety between £40-£60 a brick of 500

[linny]

get both they have pros and cons as already said

[Dekers]

There is some serious history on this subject and the answers are always the same, perhaps it should be pinned!

[malkiserow]

get both they have pros and cons as already said

 

I am also in the get both camp. A search should bring up old threads on this very subject

[artschool]

read the threads then get a .22lr like the rest of the world.

 

then skip the Hmr and get a centrefire.

Edited March 12, 2012 by artschool

[12borejimbo]

I have had both, a 22 and an HMR, I love my 22, I would get another HMR as it was handy, but for down right pest control, the 22 every time! But get both slots, and buy the 22 first, get a half decent scope and you will knock over anything you aim at within 70 yards!

[Rimfireboy]

If I could only have one,it would be the .22 lr. The .22 is more versatile than the .17 hmr. The hmr is a better tool on the open fields shooting 100 yards plus. It appears to be less prone to ricochet but they do ricochet so you can't afford to assume they won't. Some hmr ammo is nearly four times the price of Some .22's. That's something to consider. I've been out with the .22 today, just zeroed in a new batch of eley subs I've started. Putting five shots into one enlarged hole at fifty yards resting on my car. With this set up I can shoot dead on from ten to sixty yards with just a touch of hold over at seventy. It depends what you need really. I like my hmr but I prefer the quiet life with the .22. And it's a good bit cheaper to run. Just my opinion. They're both good in their own way.

[Four Fingers of Death]

As most have said, the 22LR is definetely the way to go first up. It will handle most things (well, things that are small anyway). The 17HMR is a buzz to shoot and is awesome when out hunting. They are invariably very accurate as well.

 

One thing that is good abou the 22 is if you just want to have a bit of fun shooting tin cans (ice cubes are fun as well) a box of cheap 22s can be had for very little money.

 

I have a BRNO Model2 which I have had for over 30 years and it is brilliant. They are now called CZs. Norinco also make a copy of this rifle and apart from tinny sights is just as good. It is half the price of the CZ. If you buy a CZ, buy Norinco mags, they are steel and just like the old BRNO mags.

 

I also have a SAKO Quad with the 4 barrel set. Brilliant, but to fully take advantage of it, you need a higer mounted scope or a SAKO Quad scope (and they ain't giving them away) as the barrels tilt up when you change them over. Mine goes to the range 2-3 times a week and the 22 is used by any learners or poor gunless souls that turn up.

 

A Quad in one of the choices (22LR/17HMR) and a spare barrel is one option, possibly one old Bill will like as it is only one rifle. It will give you a very well made, high quality, accurate platform. You may be ablle to buy two rifles for the cost of the SAKO set up. A Norinco 22 would be good enough and a better quality 17HMR perhaps. Cheap scope on the 22 and a better quality one on the 17?

 

I am very happy with my Quad and shoot it every week, great stuff! Winter is one the way and it will be seeing off a few foxes in the near future. Mt wife is Chinese and those Chinese girls are not politically correct and as such, between her and her friends, I have plenty of orders for fox fur.

 

Good luck!

[cooter]

I have both and the HMR has been sat in the cabinet for about six months, where the .22lr has been out every week.

 

With a .22lr,,

You can plink all day and not worry about cost, noise or an overheating barrel.

They can be used for targets out to very long ranges (CMS run a 300meter range using .22lr on their range day).

 

You can buy 30ftlb ammo for the .22 which makes it good for close work.

 

As they run slow they highlight any faults in your shooting technique.

 

The HMR has its place, but a well shot .22lr is not to be sneered at.

[ajm1979]

I am in the get both camp as are many others, I have a CZ .22 and as previously said it is super quiet and very cheap to feed however I do regularly use my Sako Quad .17 Hmr as it is conditioned for fox, and can do much greater ranges than the .22 on rabbits especially when the silage has just been taken off and the farmers let me drive through all the fields its great for knocking the bunnies down at 150 yards off the wing mirror.

[Graham M]

Forget the Hmr and go for a .22Hornet. The hornet's 35grn bullet weighs more then twice that of the Hmr so won't get knocked about so much by the wind.

Plus!! it will give you 730 ft lbs of muzzle energy and 2800+fps MV compared to the Hmr's ME of 245 ft lbs and 2550 fps MV

 

And as a final plus factor, you can reload the hornet using Lil'Gun powder which will keep you going for ages as it only needs 13grns and produces 28,000 lbs sq in (which is only 2/3 of the normal 42,000 lbs sq in that is normally associated with other powders) so it looks after yer barrel as well.

 

Had a Hmr and sold it as it didn't get used because I was using the 22rf all the time, plus I had a problem with the Hmr taking out foxes cleanly.

 

Yes I've heard all the arguments from people who say that a Hmr is good enough for fox as long as you hit it in the right place etc, etc, etc, but believe me I have hit a fox square in the boiler-room at 50yds and he run off never to be seen again (searched for ages but know that it must have died a painful death ).

A .22 Hornet will drop them on the spot using a 35grn HP.

 

 

Mind you....................you could always skip the Hornet and invest in a .223

 

 

 

G.M.

Edited March 13, 2012 by Graham M

[kent]

Forget the Hmr and go for a .22Hornet. The hornet's 35grn bullet weighs more then twice that of the Hmr so won't get knocked about so much by the wind.

Plus!! it will give you 730 ft lbs of muzzle energy and 2800+fps MV compared to the Hmr's ME of 245 ft lbs and 2550 fps MV

 

And as a final plus factor, you can reload the hornet using Lil'Gun powder which will keep you going for ages as it only needs 14grns and produces 28,000 lbs sq in (which is only 2/3 of the normal 42,000 lbs sq in that is normally associated with other powders) so it looks after yer barrel as well.

 

Had a Hmr and sold it as it didn't get used because I was using the 22rf all the time, plus I had a problem with the Hmr taking out foxes cleanly.

 

Yes I've heard all the arguments from people who say that a Hmr is good enough for fox as long as you hit it in the right place etc, etc, etc, but believe me I have hit a fox square in the boiler-room at 50yds and he run off never to be seen again (searched for ages but know that it must have died a painful death ).

A .22 Hornet will drop them on the spot using a 35grn HP.

 

 

Mind you....................you could always skip the Hornet and invest in a .223

 

 

 

G.M.

 

Can i say your speed is low for the hornet with a 35 grn over 3000 fps is achievable. 14 grns of lil Gun wont fit in a Hornet case in my experiance. The hornet is not a third choice in this thread to my mind as good a round as it might be it just dont slip into the .22 lr v .17HMR slot question. HMR v .223 yes very much but not here

[Tomm]

Forget the Hmr and go for a .22Hornet. The hornet's 35grn bullet weighs more then twice that of the Hmr so won't get knocked about so much by the wind.

Plus!! it will give you 730 ft lbs of muzzle energy and 2800+fps MV compared to the Hmr's ME of 245 ft lbs and 2550 fps MV

 

And as a final plus factor, you can reload the hornet using Lil'Gun powder which will keep you going for ages as it only needs 14grns and produces 28,000 lbs sq in (which is only 2/3 of the normal 42,000 lbs sq in that is normally associated with other powders) so it looks after yer barrel as well.

 

Had a Hmr and sold it as it didn't get used because I was using the 22rf all the time, plus I had a problem with the Hmr taking out foxes cleanly.

 

Yes I've heard all the arguments from people who say that a Hmr is good enough for fox as long as you hit it in the right place etc, etc, etc, but believe me I have hit a fox square in the boiler-room at 50yds and he run off never to be seen again (searched for ages but know that it must have died a painful death ).

A .22 Hornet will drop them on the spot using a 35grn HP.

 

 

Mind you....................you could always skip the Hornet and invest in a .223

 

 

 

G.M.

 

 

people shoot foxes with a hmr all the time, in my eyes it is a fox gun but ONLY if used to sensible ranges, i have a hmr on my ticket and will deffo be using it for fox and it will do the job fine, i am confident of it, its all about knoing how far to push it, i suspect you did not shoot it where you thaught as i very much doubt it running away with a decent shot at 50 yards,

 

 

Tom

[al4x]

oh I don't know Tom I had two do it when using the 20 grain bullets, they just zip through but and the big but having a dog with me she found them dead and entry and exit hole present on both. Without the dog I'd be wondering as well but they didn't last long. Since using the 17grain ammo they don't do it shot sensibly.

Personally the trajectory and ability to flatten rabbits is why I have an HMR, as for ricochets being as dangerous as a .22lr the slow moving 40 grains of lead does ricochet more and retain more energy than a bullet going at HMR speeds, our ground I just won't use a LR too many years of putting up with zinging rounds I just don't like it.

[kent]

oh I don't know Tom I had two do it when using the 20 grain bullets, they just zip through but and the big but having a dog with me she found them dead and entry and exit hole present on both. Without the dog I'd be wondering as well but they didn't last long. Since using the 17grain ammo they don't do it shot sensibly.

Personally the trajectory and ability to flatten rabbits is why I have an HMR, as for ricochets being as dangerous as a .22lr the slow moving 40 grains of lead does ricochet more and retain more energy than a bullet going at HMR speeds, our ground I just won't use a LR too many years of putting up with zinging rounds I just don't like it.

 

Yes it will be less prone to ricochet on some (normally harder) ground (not on sedge grass though, i found it terrible among the stuff ). It also carries twice the power though and this should be balanced against the heavier .22 slug. my own point is IF the .22 rf is deemed too dangerous due to ricochets on some ground then the 17 HMR should also be ruled out as even if its twenty times better than a .22 lr its still not safe.

If ground has ricochet potential or hazards from livestock then consider the FAC air option OR a suitable shotgun if it must be a shooting approach at all

[Graham M]

Can i say your speed is low for the hornet with a 35 grn over 3000 fps is achievable. 14 grns of lil Gun wont fit in a Hornet case in my experiance.

Yes I know, but I was simply giving an example about velocity and ME.

Sorry that should have been 13grns (was thinking about 14grns of 2400 in the 357)

Just sold my .223 as it wasn't getting used as much as the .243 but will always keep the Hornet which just seems such a nice round to shoot.

G.M.

 

 

Changed original load data in previous post. Thanks for the head-up

Edited March 13, 2012 by Graham M

[al4x]

Back to the original question last night reminded me why I have mine. We'd been out rabbiting and got to a spot we'd seen a fox last week so decided to sit there for a while and go to NV. Sat about 20 minutes caller on and no sign of foxy but all the time the rabbit numbers were building up, I usually lamp them most of the time a mate shoots while I drive and lamp and we swap but this time I swapped the archer onto the hmr, and figured I'd sort a few out as its a funny field with wheat in and the bunnies are hard to get at. Well with my mate loading I had a dozen as fast as I could shoot them ranges from 20 yards to about 170 and that you can't do with a lr. Can see the archer being used more for rabbiting as they just don't run as they do under a lamp. The only issue is you can almost see too far and no its not being swapped for anything bigger its just not needed. 2 minutes after the fox turned up and there went on another 30 minute mess about trying to get a shot. It won that time but now i've got the time sorted it won't last long a

[kent]

Back to the original question last night reminded me why I have mine. We'd been out rabbiting and got to a spot we'd seen a fox last week so decided to sit there for a while and go to NV. Sat about 20 minutes caller on and no sign of foxy but all the time the rabbit numbers were building up, I usually lamp them most of the time a mate shoots while I drive and lamp and we swap but this time I swapped the archer onto the hmr, and figured I'd sort a few out as its a funny field with wheat in and the bunnies are hard to get at. Well with my mate loading I had a dozen as fast as I could shoot them ranges from 20 yards to about 170 and that you can't do with a lr. Can see the archer being used more for rabbiting as they just don't run as they do under a lamp. The only issue is you can almost see too far and no its not being swapped for anything bigger its just not needed. 2 minutes after the fox turned up and there went on another 30 minute mess about trying to get a shot. It won that time but now i've got the time sorted it won't last long a

 

No 170 is too far for a .22 lr with NV. But could you have got the fox with something bigger in that 30 min period? Each must pick his own tools for the job. As the ranges were "from 20 yds" might i suggest a good ammount of the dozen could have also equally have been done with the LR? Could the silent subs have meant even more might have been taken over time? all be it at reduced ranges Of course i fully expect you to say no to the latter question as you will defend the HMR against anything but my rabbits certainly run around and hide at the report of the HMR a lot more.

It must to be nice to get out of that truck every now and again

[al4x]

The .243 was on my lap at the time so no wouldn't have helped, caller put it off and it just hunted a hedge on the skyline. Unfazed but its day will come its not lamp shy but is shy of being called so the stealth approach works. Our bunny ground is well spread out balls to covering the sort of distance we cover on foot, only 10 miles driven last night but I do like to get home. As for spooking with the noise the crops are just tall enough now for them to think they have enough cover hence not spooking. For me it works many it won't one things certain when you rattle off rabbits at that rate you remember why you like it so much.