Can you actually be compelled to install a burglar alarm?

[Thunderbird]

I know this has been touched on before but just wondering from people's specific experiences:

 

6. Security of Firearms and Shot Guns

 

It is policy of the Avon & Somerset Constabulary that where you wish to

possess a combine total of six or more firearms/shotguns, it will be a normal

requirement for an intruder alarm to be fitted at the premises where

firearms/shotguns are to be secured, in addition to the cabinet requirement and the usual high standard of overall security.

[Billy.]

My FEO asked where our alarm is. I pointed to the dog. He nodded and continued with his report.

[Thunderbird]

I have just found this thread, but interested in the latest opinion.

[Livefast123]

I still waiting for my full club membership to come through so have not crossed that bridge yet with A & S as per my original thread.

 

According to the Home office guidelines the police should take into consideration area crime rate, house age and security, how often house is occupied, whether house is overlooked, how desirable the firearms held are to criminals etc. Applying a blanket policy is just plain wrong.

 

As my house is new with top lever locks on all doors, window locks, in a low crime area, overlooked by a number of neighbours, Mrs is in most of the time, have a cabinet alarm and I won't have any pistols etc I really dont think I need an house alarm and will be making representations to that effect.

 

Lets be fair, a unmonitered house alarm is about as much use as a choc teapot and monitered ones still take about 10 mins by the time the call has gone through the call centre. Pile of carp

Edited June 29, 2012 by Livefast123

[CharlieT]

I know this has been touched on before but just wondering from people's specific experiences:

 

6. Security of Firearms and Shot Guns

 

It is policy of the Avon & Somerset Constabulary that where you wish to

possess a combine total of six or more firearms/shotguns, it will be a normal

requirement for an intruder alarm to be fitted at the premises where

firearms/shotguns are to be secured, in addition to the cabinet requirement and the usual high standard of overall security.

 

Not withstanding the security requirements laid out in the Firearms Security Handbook, like A&S, D&C also ask that an alarm be fitted in such circumstances.

 

We must also remember CC's are able and are authorised by the HO to administer firearms licensing with some disgression and in a reasonable way in the public interest.

 

Further, you will know doubt be aware that the subject of alarms where substantial numbers of firearms held is covered in the HO Firearms Security Handbook. The handbook states 6 being the lower end of substantial.

 

Remembering that, except in unusual circumstances, we are talking cabinet/single room unmonitored alarms, I think it not unreasonable and perfectly legal for the police to insist on a £10 alarm being fitted.

 

You would not think twice about fitting one to your garden shed so why not to your gun safe.

[Thunderbird]

Thanks for that, I'm pretty much in a similar position as you by the sounds of it.

[Livefast123]

I've fitted a £10 shed alarm as a common sense approach which I believe is perfectly reasonable, however I was told (correctly or not)by the admin worker that it had to be a house alarm.

 

We'll soon see as my full membership is being processed next month

Edited June 29, 2012 by Livefast123

[stokie]

Ask to see where it's a requirement in the home office guidelines.

I live on a boat and my guns go where I go .

I don't have an alarm of any kind . It's upto the firearms boss not the admin team .

Join Basc if you need further advice . The police are there to uphold the law , not to make it up when it suits

[mossy835]

you can keep 5 guns, but if you want 6 guns then they like you to have an alarm,i was told that 5 years ago, that is what they like.

[apache]

If they asked me to install an alarm I would. DIY house alarm kits available for less than £50. One has never been mentioned. Split over three cabinets and 4 ammo safes.

 

Our joint stash: 7 shotguns, 1 FAC shotgun, 5 rifles, 4 section 5 weapons (2 pistols and 2 dart guns).

[Thunderbird]

I have to say that considering the most common locations of most domestic gun owners cabinets I find the idea of a '£10 cabinet alarm' amongst the most ridiculous things I've ever heard.

 

Still, if it allows me to get round it then, well...

[Billy.]

If a £10 cabinet alarm goes off and there's no one in the house, does it make a sound?

[Thunderbird]

If a £10 cabinet alarm goes off and there's no one in the house, does it make a sound?

 

No it ******* doesn't.

[Fisheruk]

Why not - common sense

[CharlieT]

I've fitted a £10 shed alarm as a common sense approach which I believe is perfectly reasonable, however I was told (correctly or not)by the admin worker that it had to be a house alarm.

 

We'll soon see as my full membership is being processed next month

 

 

Silly you then for being clever and describing it as a shed alarm.

 

Think how much better and more professional it would have sounded had you described it as a gun cabinet alarm as detailed in the HO firearms security handbook.

 

As my father used to say, think before you speak.

[CharlieT]

Ask to see where it's a requirement in the home office guidelines.

I live on a boat and my guns go where I go .

I don't have an alarm of any kind . It's upto the firearms boss not the admin team .

Join Basc if you need further advice . The police are there to uphold the law , not to make it up when it suits

 

As pointed out, it is an advised requirement and it's in there in black and white.

 

BASC, quite rightly, support the idea.

[Pastiebap]

Each application should be dealt with on it's own merits and blanket "policy" is lazy and unfair.

[Glenshooter]

I installed a house alarm mainly because I have a FAC. It wasn't insisted upon but stolen guns can give the antis an easy argument and I don't want to help them.

 

I believe that the burglary rate of houses with alarms is significantly lower than houses with no external alarm box, so to me, it makes sense all round.

[Livefast123]

Silly you then for being clever and describing it as a shed alarm

 

As my father used to say, think before you speak.

 

I haven't described it as anything to the FD, I mearly described it as a shed alarm for the purpose of this thread. It will of course be a proper cabinet alarm when I submit the paperwork and to be fair for a cheap alarm it's bloody loud.

 

Good advise, maybe add not to assume things

[spanj]

My FEO asked where our alarm is. I pointed to the dog. He nodded and continued with his report.

 

Mine did the same. TBH, unless linked to cop shop alarms are pretty much useless

[Pastiebap]

Mine did the same. TBH, unless linked to cop shop alarms are pretty much useless

 

The dog usually barks whilst the burglar is hanging around outside. When the alarm goes the burglar is in there with you.

 

Know which I would prefer to have.

[fortune]

The response teams are so thin on the ground these days that even if you were being burgled the odds are that by the time someone does eventually turn up the boys in the stripy jumpers are going to be long gone. We were broken into at work this last winter and the law didn’t turn up until two days after the event. And that was only because another officer was not on duty and a vehicle was available to come out to us. Still you can always claim on your house insurance. Should you be covered for this eventuality.

[ordnance]

( The remoteness or otherwise of the property and the likely response time to calls for

assistance, either by police or neighbours;

© Whether the property is overlooked and/or illuminated. These are significant factors in

deterring burglars;

(d) The extent to which the property is occupied or left unoccupied;

(e) The location of storage points within the property and where appropriate the distribution of

firearms within each secure point;

(f) The attractiveness of the type of firearms to criminals. For example, modern multi-shot

handguns may be more attractive to criminals than shotguns, which would in turn be more

attractive than rifles or older types of firearm. Muzzle-loading firearms, whether original or

reproduction, are not generally considered attractive to criminals;

(g) The number of firearms held;

(h) Whether it is generally known that firearms are stored on the premises.

 

Leval 2 example below.

 

fit locks to PVCu doors and/or windows it is important to stress that

the manufacturer/supplier should be consulted about which locks would be appropriate, as the

fitting of non-specified locks may cause damage and invalidate the product warranty.

Level 2

27 Where the individual circumstances require additional measures (for example, a high crime

location, a building regularly left unoccupied, a substantial number of firearms on the premises,

repeat victimisation etc.), in addition to the provision of a suitable cabinet, gun room or safe, the

following may be considered-

(a) The exit door locks should be to BS3621 or equivalent and any French windows/patio doors

should have an integral locking system or be provided with supplementary locks to frustrate

forcible opening, together with anti-lift blocks if applicable;

( Windows on the ground floor and those accessible from flat roofs etc should be fitted with

an appropriate type and number of locks which are self-latching or active-key operated.

These should ensure casement-to-frame locking along the length of the opening edge;

© (An audible intruder alarm to the appropriate standard protecting either the whole of the

premises or those parts of the premises deemed necessary;)

(d) Spreading the risk by dividing up the number of firearms between several secure locations.

28 For these purposes, a “substantial number of firearms” (as mentioned in paragraph 27)

should be assessed with regard to the type of firearms, their potential danger if misused and their

likely attractiveness to criminals. At the lower end the number might vary between six and ten,

depending on the type of firearm concerned, whilst anything over ten would rarely, if ever, be

lower than level 2. For these purposes, sound moderators, spare barrels, spare cylinders and

component parts should not normally be considered as part of this total.

29 If the certificate holder provides a different form of security, which equates to that

provided above (such as providing a reinforced gun room or other area), this may also be

accepted as suitable. The comments made in reference to PVCu and other specialist products are

also applicable.

[parapilot]

I think its good practice for anyone with firearms to have an alarm installed. Dont cost to much, and its a big deterrant. Its proven theves spend less time in the house if an alarm is sounding. Not enough time to break into a BS cabinet. If no alarm, they got bags of time. Police response is thin on the ground i agree, but your house has a firearms marker on it, so if reported they will be a lot more interested in it that a normal alarm.

 

Also piece of mind when in bed, you dont have to investigate those bumps in the night as you know the alarms on. And when your out, iv installed a 80 quid dialer, so on activation it dials out set numbers, so i know its going off or not.

 

Maybe my job makes me paranoid (master locksmith) but i would not be happy leaving my house empty un alarmed, even without the guns!!

 

Ignore all the above if you own a big dog. They are much better than any alarm!!!

 

J

[kent]

I know this has been touched on before but just wondering from people's specific experiences:

 

6. Security of Firearms and Shot Guns

 

It is policy of the Avon & Somerset Constabulary that where you wish to

possess a combine total of six or more firearms/shotguns, it will be a normal

requirement for an intruder alarm to be fitted at the premises where

firearms/shotguns are to be secured, in addition to the cabinet requirement and the usual high standard of overall security.

 

Yes, extra security can be imposed as above, its written in the guideance to police also. Usually ask for monitored alarm and can go windowshutters etc. I ran that gaunthlet last year myself when i asked for a 7th to be added. I dont mind extra security its just my neighbours are 1/2 mile away and i doubt an ARV could get here inside 40mins. Extra measures have been added following off my own back and there is talk about fitting whats called a "screamer" its so loud inside the house its supposed to disoriantate an intuder