paulos Posted August 9, 2012 Report Share Posted August 9, 2012 Sporting isn't going to be an Olympic discipline. It's slow, would need too much space and would be incredibly difficult to televise properly. That's my humble opinion anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDAV Posted August 9, 2012 Author Report Share Posted August 9, 2012 Sporting isn't going to be an Olympic discipline. It's slow, would need too much space and would be incredibly difficult to televise properly. That's my humble opinion anyway. But Maze clays could be........................ All the fun of sporting with a free wheel barrow........... BTW he wrote a lovely bit for the Wikipedia page... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orangeclay Posted August 9, 2012 Report Share Posted August 9, 2012 dennisweb said: " Palinkas to state recently that its not there intention to be part of the Olympic framework" That would be the end of FITASC! The only game, to represent sporting and parcours shooters,right now, is the maze clays! This is an independent game that can challenge " parcoure de chasse" and to be adapted to the olympic requirements! Wireless and with proper adjustments , maze clays can be an option to be taken in consideration! Please don't take this as a comercial, this is an opinion regarding the representation of our sport in Olympics! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulos Posted August 9, 2012 Report Share Posted August 9, 2012 Oh give over. Maze Clays looks like utter horse manure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orangeclay Posted August 9, 2012 Report Share Posted August 9, 2012 so what is wrong with this? http://www.losttarget.com/shoots2006/0306mazeclays/default.htm Is the best target control-safety and target variety combination of cause with a wireless system! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timps Posted August 9, 2012 Report Share Posted August 9, 2012 dennisweb said: " Palinkas to state recently that its not there intention to be part of the Olympic framework" That would be the end of FITASC! The only game, to represent sporting and parcours shooters,right now, is the maze clays! This is an independent game that can challenge " parcoure de chasse" and to be adapted to the olympic requirements! Wireless and with proper adjustments , maze clays can be an option to be taken in consideration! Please don't take this as a comercial, this is an opinion regarding the representation of our sport in Olympics! Well that sold it to me... Oh give over. Maze Clays looks like utter horse manure. Hmmm I seem to be impressionable as this is an even more compelling rebuttal though ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdSolomons Posted August 9, 2012 Report Share Posted August 9, 2012 orange clay, I have not heard of this, please explain in more detail...! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
denniswebb Posted August 9, 2012 Report Share Posted August 9, 2012 I have been told this rubbish for the past 20 years, 'Phil Boakes' How do you support your claim to popular support. Over 50 countries now support fitasc. you need around 30 for submission . It doesn't make for good television viewing , 20 years ago we said that about golf, look at the slow cams in golf now, you could even have micro cams fitted to shooters hats or glasses to show the shot hitting the clay, you could even use flouresent shot to make it easier just as they did at Goodwood . Somehow the trap and skeet based establishment seem to think the only way it would work is if we modify sporting to become a modified mix up of trap and skeet targets, call it Compak or Sportrap, because we have to set it up in every country the same way, do they do that in Golf, cut it down to 6 holes because it will take up too much room, or all flat courses to be the same in each country. Whilst we keep getting fed this rubbish we will never get there, our sporting shooters will have to take up a stupid unpopular discipline to get Olympic reconition, we need a new Worldwide sporting organisation funded by our national organisations to lobby directly or if necassary make a legal challenge....Olympic reconisiation would have huge benifits for membership of national organisations, 80 % of these bodies are supported by sporting shooters, in reality we hold all the cards. Dennis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilR Posted August 10, 2012 Report Share Posted August 10, 2012 (edited) Thnaks phil I found it interesting that some of the OT competitor also shot the DT competiton (aldehani) yet the brits didn't, I didnt know DT came from "a cheaper" set up, I thought it was a different use of the OT 15 trap set up "bunker" I shot OT once............. and thought DT was the "hardest discipline as it was effectively a sim pair of OT birds! Sorry for delay in reply broadband keeps failing. As far as I'm aware there were two who shot two disciplines, Kim Rhode who won the women's skeet also shot OT and Aldeehani who shot both DT and OT. In order to shoot at the Olympic Games a Quota Place has to be either won, or awarded as a host nation, or as a hardship case. Once you've got a QP then if you want to shoot in another discipline you can, provided you achieve the MQS score in it at a recognised event. The traps are the same for OT and DT but the targets are set differently. In a trench used for OT in front of each of the five shooting stands there are three traps, which are set to throw a target to a set elevation, which is between 1.5 and 3.5m and is measured 10m in front of the trench. A set angle and a set distance of 76m +/- 1m. The left hand trap of each bank of three will throw a target to the right up to a maximum of 45 degrees, the centre trap will throw it straight or slightly to either side of zero degrees and the right trap with throw it to the right up to a maximum of 45 degrees. There are nine OT schemes with each of the 15 traps having varying elevations and angles. The exit speed of a target from the trap is approximately 60mph dependent upon the elevation and also the type of trap installed. The targets are released instantly by acoustics and the scheme is controlled by computer which determines which trap will be operated. All competitors will have exactly the same targets but not in the same order and will shoot two targets from the left trap, one from the centre trap and two from the right trap in front of each of the five shooting stands. For DT being shot on an OT trench the traps in front of shooting stand three are the only ones used. There are three schemes, the first uses the left and centre traps, the second uses right and centre and the third uses left and right. The left trap is set 5 degrees to the left, the centre trap to zero and the right trap 5 degrees to the right. The elevation is 3m for left and right traps and 3.5m for the centre traps. The distance the target is thrown is 55m +/- 1m. There is also a random delay on the targets being thrown from 0 to 1 second. Given that the targets aren't thrown as far in DT as OT it would be fair to say the exit speed of the clay from the trap will be less. With regards to the MQS scores don't forget that both OT and Skeet are 125 target competitions and DT is 150 targets. So by rights the MQS for DT will be a higher figure than the other two disciplines. I'm not going to be dragged into Dennis's forelorn plea for sporting to be included into the Olympics, I've heard it all before and it ain't gonna happen. Edited August 10, 2012 by PhilR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulos Posted August 10, 2012 Report Share Posted August 10, 2012 Interesting read, Phil Rio, here I come Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDAV Posted August 10, 2012 Author Report Share Posted August 10, 2012 Thanks Phil i didn't realise there was a lower distance for DT which logically means a slower release speed. Re Quota places is that per person or per discipline? Basically wondering how it all works (not that it will ever really bother me in practice) While I see Dennis' crusade has some merit I don't see it happening and think there will be a much bigger fight to keep shooting in the Olympics...And an even bigger one to make the UK competitive if you look at the stunning Team GB performance overall shootings 1 medal pales into insignificance. Is this due to poor funding? Poor facilities? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
denniswebb Posted August 10, 2012 Report Share Posted August 10, 2012 You are absolutly right Phil , we never have and never will have representation, its by design, we get teased along thinking that the BICTSF is the wonder body that represents us when in fact they only damage our sport....Fitasc isn't any different, they also string us along pretending to they too are feel that its unjust that our exclusion is an injustice, just when its all up and running and a huge success , they turn around and state that its not in Fitasc interest for Fitasc sporting to become an Olympic event, you only have to look at the money generated now by fitasc and the non existance prize money and its easy to understand there hesitance, nothing really has changed much since the bad ol days of fitasc. The CPSA bless em, pay out huge prizes in the World sporting, totally uncurruptable, honest and hard working staff, they know it would be great for membership it there was some form in the Olympics, but don't really understand where we go from here and how to get there. We should completly split the International Board, let them wallies go and play and start our own sporting body under the umbrella of the CPSA , recruit other countries and put together a full legal challenge. Hugh Smith has now left the board, perhaps thats his intention Phil, form a new organisation. Dennis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDAV Posted August 10, 2012 Author Report Share Posted August 10, 2012 We should completly split the International Board, let them wallies go and play and start our own sporting body under the umbrella of the CPSA , recruit other countries and put together a full legal challenge. Hugh Smith has now left the board, perhaps thats his intention Phil, form a new organisation. Dennis More governing bodies is EXACTLY what we need :drool: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilR Posted August 10, 2012 Report Share Posted August 10, 2012 QP are awarded to the country of the person winning it, not the person. There are two available per country, if won, in men's trap double trap and skeet. For women's skeet and trap there's one place per country. Unless like Kim Rhode who got the QP in skeet and then shot the MQS for trap at the London World Cup test event giving her the right to shoot both events. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
denniswebb Posted August 10, 2012 Report Share Posted August 10, 2012 Well HDAV we don't have any governing bodies now, they profess to represent us but where is that happening, did i miss something ? I'm all for unilateral action . Call ourselves O.S.S.C......Start our own Olympics , stage it about 3 months before the real thing, we could have Olympic International Sporting, Olympic Compac, (with a 'C') so as not to be confused with Fitasc, Olympic Fitast sporting. Olympic Mazeclays...The list is endless, A sort of Spring Olympics , like the Winter ones but in Spring, just before those other ones that don't represent anyone in the shooting world , At least our ones would have more than 20 shooters taking part, and you could nominate yourself for more than one discipline ......George could do a clean sweep. Dennis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
100milesaway Posted August 10, 2012 Report Share Posted August 10, 2012 Hells bells, leave my sport alone. Every time i'm on the back of the bike swooping from bend to bend and on my way to the sporting shoots on a Sunday, passing numerous full Tesco car parks, I just think thank god they are not cluttering my space up. Leave um where they are,I don't want my sports "popularised" from Auntie. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdSolomons Posted August 10, 2012 Report Share Posted August 10, 2012 Well HDAV we don't have any governing bodies now, they profess to represent us but where is that happening, did i miss something ? I'm all for unilateral action . Call ourselves O.S.S.C......Start our own Olympics , stage it about 3 months before the real thing, we could have Olympic International Sporting, Olympic Compac, (with a 'C') so as not to be confused with Fitasc, Olympic Fitast sporting. Olympic Mazeclays...The list is endless, A sort of Spring Olympics , like the Winter ones but in Spring, just before those other ones that don't represent anyone in the shooting world , At least our ones would have more than 20 shooters taking part, and you could nominate yourself for more than one discipline ......George could do a clean sweep. Nah, I was thinking of turning up! Dennis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDAV Posted August 10, 2012 Author Report Share Posted August 10, 2012 Well HDAV we don't have any governing bodies now, Who exactly is "we"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
denniswebb Posted August 10, 2012 Report Share Posted August 10, 2012 The rank & file sporting shooter, you know that one that don't have any representation in this sport, the missfits, doomed to wander the wastelands of non olympic disciplines, just occassionally peaping over the wall to see how the proper shooting should be done, and having to applaud loudly so as to pretend that we are one of them, Its a bit like the masons, ( i never joined them either) when you are on the outside and not in the groovy gang you get shunned .....That is who we are HDVA , the cowboys, the ******, the non conformist, we don't belong. Dennis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilR Posted August 10, 2012 Report Share Posted August 10, 2012 Dennis, why don't you start your own thread where you can whinge until the cows come home instead of cluttering up this thread, or better still start your own webbysite. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
denniswebb Posted August 10, 2012 Report Share Posted August 10, 2012 Phil i am only speaking as it is and has been for the past 20 years, you was in a position of real power but in reallity you blocked any move that could water down these **** minority failing disciplines. Now and again i visit Southend Gun Club, the die hard roots of ISU skeet, i have seen no visible signs of new blood, its a bit like walking on the set of Deliverance with all the ISU inbreads.......and why would i want to start my own webbsite, this is far more fun and it don't cost me anything, i must be touching a raw nerve Phil. Dennis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDAV Posted August 10, 2012 Author Report Share Posted August 10, 2012 .....That is who we are HDVA , the cowboys, the ******, the non conformist, we don't belong. Dennis I'm sure the cowboys have there own association.... http://www.bwss.org.uk/ which leaves you with the ******...... I have to say people who shoot for fun aren't bothered a decent surrounding, hit table targets, fresh tea and a bacon roll is what they want and not alot more..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salopian Posted August 10, 2012 Report Share Posted August 10, 2012 Dennis, you do talk a load of tosh, thank God you have always been blocked from representing clayshooting in any form in this country. George Digweed and Mickey Rouse have attempted to qualify to represent us at an Olympic games. Both for reasons unknown gave up. Possibly they couldn't cope with the bull **** . Olympics selection would suit you perfectly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
denniswebb Posted August 10, 2012 Report Share Posted August 10, 2012 They never made the grade wingnut, boring trap and skeet disciplines are not for everyone, its better really taking up these disciplines if you don't really shoot. You have to admire Richard Faulds for his single mindedness in staying the course. Try taking a constructive look at ISU skeet, where in the world would you ever attempt shooting station 8 with a possible 3 second delay shooting in 10 yards with the gun on the hip. I grant you Olympic Trap is a bit interesting but Skeet and double trap are a real waste of space and really should be dropped altogether, both have little following and are underdeservedly elevated and gain unfair financial support from the clay shooting establishment. George and Micky could not hack it, they never had the mental approach . And HDAV take it from me that the International Board take this view. Up until 10 years ago that was the general view of English Sporting Shooters, that and the fact that unlike skeet & trap shooters fight for everything and they have there own setup which governs there own disciplines , sporting shooters don't and the CPSA will never allow it, lose control of sporting and loose the game, although i believe that the CPSA are more open minded on these things than in a long time, we may see change. Lets not get confused i believe that to succeed in the Olympics we have to look at shooters who don't come through established routes, like the chinese we have to manufacture our shooters to fit a certain profile, they may not start out as shooters, but have the right outlook. They cannot be tarnished with other disciplines but be success driven and single minded. But is it sport. Dennis Dennis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cranfield Posted August 10, 2012 Report Share Posted August 10, 2012 Keep the discussion at a sensible adult level and stop the petty squabbling and muck throwing, or this thread gets closed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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