Giving/ receiving of ammunition legally

[TaxiDriver]

As the result of a house clearance a some 22lr subs (about 4 boxes) long since forgotten about have been found in a safe and Ive been asked me if I want then/could use them.

IF, I was to accept them, how do I go about acquiring them legally ie having them entered on my certificate as I believe the householder might no longer be an fac holder.

[al4x]

you can't unless you want to take them to a rfd and hand them over and then see if they will sign them on. However most would just accept possession and say no more and use them

[Blunderbuss]

This is one of many examples of how our awful legislation makes it hard to do the right thing. In effect what you want to do is take some (probably) illegally held ammunition, back into the control of a legal, authorised person (you). You would think you're doing the householder and the police a favour and in some small way making the public 'safer' Everyone's a winner. You should be able to just enter them on your certificate and chances are if you did, it would never be noticed or questioned but if it was, it could of course cause a right fuss. Probably to stay 100% legal the householder would need to surrender them to an RFD who could then legally enter them on your ticket. A lot of hassle for a few boxes of .22. This is why some people are tempted chuck old guns and ammo in canals and ditches.

 

 

I would imagine some FAC holders might be tempted to to just take them and use them up in amongst the ammo they've already bought? Not condoning that (of course) but it would ensure they disappeared forever under responsible control.

[TaxiDriver]

I asked the question as it seemed the most obvious thing to simply to accept them as Im licenced to hold them and just use them up,

however wouldnt want to risk my fac/sgc by being seen to have any part doing anything that might be deemed to be illegal.

 

however for the cost of roughly 4 boxes of subs, I'll maybe be safer to choose not to accept them and advise that they be handed into police as 'found'

Nice for an rfd who can resell them no doubt.

[Thunderbird]

This is one of many examples of how our awful legislation makes it hard to do the right thing. In effect what you want to do is take some (probably) illegally held ammunition, back into the control of a legal, authorised person (you). You would think you're doing the householder and the police a favour and in some small way making the public 'safer' Everyone's a winner. You should be able to just enter them on your certificate and chances are if you did, it would never be noticed or questioned but if it was, it could of course cause a right fuss. Probably to stay 100% legal the householder would need to surrender them to an RFD who could then legally enter them on your ticket. A lot of hassle for a few boxes of .22. This is why some people are tempted chuck old guns and ammo in canals and ditches.

 

 

I would imagine some FAC holders might be tempted to to just take them and use them up in amongst the ammo they've already bought? Not condoning that (of course) but it would ensure they disappeared forever under responsible control.

 

Wise words there mate.

[Blackstone]

In reality though, how likely is it that someone's going to check?

[kyska]

That's the same with many laws fella, I suppose it's down personal scruples.

[HDAV]

Just for the sake of debate if they didn't take you over your storage allowance is there any crime committed in taking them? An unliscenced person in possesion is committing an offence but are you as the receiver ? Might be worth a call to FEO if friendly with the hypothetical situation

 

Is this from a deceaseds estate or professional house clearance? Or a friend who used to have a ticket?

Edited September 14, 2012 by HDAV

[sako751sg]

Pretend you homeloaded them and sign them on to your own ticket.Could do,but shouldnt.

[al4x]

what rimfire rounds!

 

just take them and use them, as long as you aren't over limits and have bought some then there is no real issue as soon as you are in possession thats fine you are allowed to be and it would be some awesome detective work from an FEO working out where they came from. I've a few HMR rounds from part boxes that are years old, there would be no telling where they came from or if I even bought them.

[JonathanL]

Just for the sake of debate if they didn't take you over your storage allowance is there any crime committed in taking them? An unliscenced person in possesion is committing an offence but are you as the receiver ? Might be worth a call to FEO if friendly with the hypothetical situation

 

Is this from a deceaseds estate or professional house clearance? Or a friend who used to have a ticket?

 

You don't commit an offence by taking them. The person in possession is already comitting an offence and he doens't commit another one by giving them to a person lawfully entitled to receive them. If it were illegal for him to give them to you then it would be illegal to give them to an RFD.

 

J.

 

Pretend you homeloaded them and sign them on to your own ticket.Could do,but shouldnt.

 

You don't need to write home loaded ammo onto your cert. Also, it's rimfire.

 

J.

[Scully]

Just use them.

[sako751sg]

You don't commit an offence by taking them. The person in possession is already comitting an offence and he doens't commit another one by giving them to a person lawfully entitled to receive them. If it were illegal for him to give them to you then it would be illegal to give them to an RFD.

 

J.

 

 

 

You don't need to write home loaded ammo onto your cert. Also, it's rimfire.

 

J.

 

 

I never said you had to,i said you could write it onto your own certificate,which you can do.

[Rimfireboy]

I don't think anybody would be bothered where they came from, so long as they're being held and used by an authorised person, what would it matter really?

[bedwards1966]

It's already been said - he's not breaking any laws by just taking them.

The person without a certificate who currently has them is breaking the law, so they should be taken by someone with a certificate that permits them to ASAP.

[robbiep]

Out of interest ...

about 5 years ago, an uncle of mine phoned me up, and asked if he could pop round to the house.

When he arrived, he brought in a gun slip, and got a lever action .22 rifle out of it, and then about 200 rounds as well, and asked me if I wanted them. He had had them sitting in his loft since the 60s, and was clearing out before they moved house.

He was horrified when I explained what the possession of those would mean.

I checked the gun was clear, and locked it in my cabinet (I am only a shotgun cert holder). My cabinet has a ammo safe, so separation and securing was doable. Then I phoned my FEO.

He gave me 2 choices. Either I could stay in, and he would come up (within the hour) to collect.

Or he would issue me with an instant temp permit to take them down to my RFD.

I chose to wait in for him to arrive, and when he did, we filled in the paperwork, and they were taken off. All sorted, nobody in trouble, and the police don't really care where they have come from. What matters is that they are now not going to get into criminal hands

 

One thing I learnt from the FEO that day was this : action IMMEDIATELY is what matters.

If my uncle had found these, called me and found they were illegal, and then hung on to them for a week or 2, big trouble.

Same if he had dropped them at my house, and I had taken a few days to call the police about it.

 

This person now knows they are holding ammunition illegally. They must dispose of it, to either a FAC holder, an RFD, or to the police, ASAP. Failure to do so, if it all goes wrong, is an automatic 5 year minimum term.

[Vince Green]

If you had taken the second option, taken it to the gunshop yourself you would have got a price for it. And it might have been quite a lot.

[JonathanL]

Out of interest ...

about 5 years ago, an uncle of mine phoned me up, and asked if he could pop round to the house.

When he arrived, he brought in a gun slip, and got a lever action .22 rifle out of it, and then about 200 rounds as well, and asked me if I wanted them. He had had them sitting in his loft since the 60s, and was clearing out before they moved house.

He was horrified when I explained what the possession of those would mean.

I checked the gun was clear, and locked it in my cabinet (I am only a shotgun cert holder). My cabinet has a ammo safe, so separation and securing was doable. Then I phoned my FEO.

He gave me 2 choices. Either I could stay in, and he would come up (within the hour) to collect.

Or he would issue me with an instant temp permit to take them down to my RFD.

I chose to wait in for him to arrive, and when he did, we filled in the paperwork, and they were taken off. All sorted, nobody in trouble, and the police don't really care where they have come from. What matters is that they are now not going to get into criminal hands

 

One thing I learnt from the FEO that day was this : action IMMEDIATELY is what matters.

If my uncle had found these, called me and found they were illegal, and then hung on to them for a week or 2, big trouble.

Same if he had dropped them at my house, and I had taken a few days to call the police about it.

 

This person now knows they are holding ammunition illegally. They must dispose of it, to either a FAC holder, an RFD, or to the police, ASAP. Failure to do so, if it all goes wrong, is an automatic 5 year minimum term.

 

The five year minimum only applies to stuff prohibited under section 5. Also, it seems that it is actually rarely given as there is an 'exceptional' circumstances exemption that courts can use.

 

May I ask - what happened to it?

 

J.

Edited September 17, 2012 by JonathanL

[Northamptonclay]

Probably in FEO cabinet now

[jamiedenny]

+1 for above.

i would always suggest doing the rightn thung and callung the feo is the immediate thing to do. i would agree that accepting them and using is legal but only do this if your hapy, £10 isnt worth loosing your license over.