houlsby Posted September 29, 2012 Report Share Posted September 29, 2012 Out lamping with my mate the other night, crossed the road to change fields.. Cars headlights flick on behind. Drive into field, car follows.. So I got out, got my folder for permission slips etc.. And the copper asks me the usual.. Then asked me for my lOg number? As if it was now law to phone up? Also, not only is the guy pestering me about what I'm doing.. He's sat on the edge of my shoot, main beams on and flashy blues on at 2am ruining my foxing! Is it now LAW to ring 101 and have a 5 min grilling about what your doing? Or can I just ignore his drivel and just go shooting? This isn't the first time they've been out over there either! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerry31 Posted September 29, 2012 Report Share Posted September 29, 2012 Not law at all they are just trying to push it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bullet1747 Posted September 29, 2012 Report Share Posted September 29, 2012 Not law at all they are just trying to push it In a way it's a good idea Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M.I.A Posted September 29, 2012 Report Share Posted September 29, 2012 In a way it's a good idea I think it's stupid, We're out there doing a lawful activity would you ring the police everytime you wanted to go for a drive?if someone calls the plod they have to respond regardless if you have called In advance Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matone Posted September 29, 2012 Report Share Posted September 29, 2012 I think it's stupid, We're out there doing a lawful activity would you ring the police everytime you wanted to go for a drive?if someone calls the plod they have to respond regardless if you have called In advance Exactly ! If people keep playing the plods game it WILL become another loss our freedoms whilst partaking in LEGITIMATE sport. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mossy835 Posted September 29, 2012 Report Share Posted September 29, 2012 the more people phone up, the more they will want you to do it,then it will be law. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redtailhawk1 Posted September 29, 2012 Report Share Posted September 29, 2012 If everyone phoned up they would soon get sick of it because the phone would not stop ringing lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JBS Posted September 29, 2012 Report Share Posted September 29, 2012 If everyone phoned up they would soon get sick of it because the phone would not stop ringing lol Exactly, how long would it be before they were completely inundated with calls? The spur of the moment hour out with your gun would be a thing of the past as we would end up having to ring three days in advance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frenchieboy Posted September 29, 2012 Report Share Posted September 29, 2012 I think it's stupid, We're out there doing a lawful activity would you ring the police everytime you wanted to go for a drive?if someone calls the plod they have to respond regardless if you have called In advance That's not strictly true mate! I only bother phoning in for one particular permission of mine where I know that there is a neighbour that is very anti and will often call the police as soon as they hear my first shot being fired. By phoning in first the police know that there is a good chance that it is me so if these stupid antis call them complaining that someone is shooting all they do is give me a quick call on my mobile to check that I have not seen or heard anyone else shooting in that area and that is the end of it. It has saved them from having to turn out on many occasions. Having said that I am not in favour of having to call in every time you go out with a gun or it being made compulsory but in certain cases it can save you a bit of unwanted hastle and time wasting! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arjimlad Posted September 29, 2012 Report Share Posted September 29, 2012 That copper is making it up as he goes along! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arjimlad Posted September 29, 2012 Report Share Posted September 29, 2012 I expect he said it was the 2012 miscellaneous provisions act. I'd be tempted to write in to the licensing office politely asking them to confirm the correct position, and cascade it to this officer too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matone Posted September 29, 2012 Report Share Posted September 29, 2012 The problem is nothing the Home Office ever do with firearms will be measured or sensible! If we play along with this one it will end up being an offence not to give them prior notice........ I`m old enough to remember having a little card SGC and being able to walk along a road with a shotgun without a problem! None of the subsequent rubbish that we`ve had heaped on us has made a jot of difference to actual crime,it HAS given them the potential to make legitimate people into criminals however ! Sorry if I sound paranoid but we`ve lost far too many of our freedoms in the countryside because of this sort of rubbish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frenchieboy Posted September 29, 2012 Report Share Posted September 29, 2012 That copper is making it up as he goes along! I suspect that you are right there Jim. It is not a compulsory thing and they can not insist on you doing it. Unfortunately I believe that traffic police are not all that clued up on shooting laws and when faced with a situation they start to make things up as they go along to justify them being there. (I had a "brush" with a couple of them once and they didn't even know how to check the serial number on my shotgun) There are a few circumstances however where a quick phone call can save your shooting/lamping trip being ruined by those dreaded words "Armed police, stand still" of there are a few antis in the area who tend to know the law and how to ruin your shooting sessions! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thunderbird Posted September 29, 2012 Report Share Posted September 29, 2012 30p a minute from vodafone apparently. I'd ask to use the coppers phone and tell him you have 'premium rate numbers "such as 101" blocked'! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fisheruk Posted September 29, 2012 Report Share Posted September 29, 2012 I think it's stupid, We're out there doing a lawful activity would you ring the police everytime you wanted to go for a drive?if someone calls the plod they have to respond regardless if you have called In advance There is response and response. I would prefer them to respond by giving me a call on my mobile rather than sending the ARU. I find it no hassle to call. On average it is no more than a couple of minutes if you have all the info to hand. Pop the log no. In the mobile phone and off we go. Simples! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fisheruk Posted September 29, 2012 Report Share Posted September 29, 2012 30p a minute from vodafone apparently. I'd ask to use the coppers phone and tell him you have 'premium rate numbers "such as 101" blocked'! Never use 101, for the same reason. I just have the main switch board numbers programmed into my phone. They just put you through to the control room. Simples! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kes Posted September 29, 2012 Report Share Posted September 29, 2012 Who benefits? The public (get a prompt response and negates concerns, particularly landowners ) The police ( able to respond quickly, allays public concerns quickly, improves their service and their image and saves costs) The shooter - knowing the police must respond and its as well they do (not disturbed unreasonably, except by mobile call maybe at the wrong moment, potentially better response to incidents involving poaching with shotguns?.) Who doesn't - Shooters (infringement of personal freedom, personal cost) The public - loss of freedom without knowing it. The police - if a system is in place they WILL have to follow it and will fail a number of times. If we are asked nicely and not made to feel the criminal would we not see the balance as beneficial? If the attitude of police to shooters was universally these are reasonable people pursuing a legitimate sport and they can and do help us? If the police decided to make shooters their supporters and eyes and ears in the countryside wouldn't we respond? Would we benefit also from closer links to the police as credible supporters of law and order - a kind of rural special? My view is, given the above the answer is we benefit far more than we lose. Since I have that relationship with my wildlife crime officer, the fact that I'm treated barely civilly by other police isnt as important. In my view its down to the police - treat us properly and we will willingly respond with support but dont expect that support you have to earn it by your actions and respect. Thats what my WCO had done. I'd get BASC to explain this to the police - its a real live issue which can enhance or damage our image - in fact I'd have been doing this for years and by know have reac hed an understanding with training offered to all forces. Just MHO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fisheruk Posted September 29, 2012 Report Share Posted September 29, 2012 Out lamping with my mate the other night, crossed the road to change fields.. Cars headlights flick on behind. Drive into field, car follows.. So I got out, got my folder for permission slips etc.. And the copper asks me the usual.. Then asked me for my lOg number? As if it was now law to phone up? Also, not only is the guy pestering me about what I'm doing.. He's sat on the edge of my shoot, main beams on and flashy blues on at 2am ruining my foxing! Is it now LAW to ring 101 and have a 5 min grilling about what your doing? Or can I just ignore his drivel and just go shooting? This isn't the first time they've been out over there either! If you had called and obtained a log, you probably would not have even seen the plod, give it a try. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fisheruk Posted September 29, 2012 Report Share Posted September 29, 2012 Who benefits? The public (get a prompt response and negates concerns, particularly landowners ) The police ( able to respond quickly, allays public concerns quickly, improves their service and their image and saves costs) The shooter - knowing the police must respond and its as well they do (not disturbed unreasonably, except by mobile call maybe at the wrong moment, potentially better response to incidents involving poaching with shotguns?.) Who doesn't - Shooters (infringement of personal freedom, personal cost) The public - loss of freedom without knowing it. The police - if a system is in place they WILL have to follow it and will fail a number of times. If we are asked nicely and not made to feel the criminal would we not see the balance as beneficial? If the attitude of police to shooters was universally these are reasonable people pursuing a legitimate sport and they can and do help us? If the police decided to make shooters their supporters and eyes and ears in the countryside wouldn't we respond? Would we benefit also from closer links to the police as credible supporters of law and order - a kind of rural special? My view is, given the above the answer is we benefit far more than we lose. Since I have that relationship with my wildlife crime officer, the fact that I'm treated barely civilly by other police isnt as important. In my view its down to the police - treat us properly and we will willingly respond with support but dont expect that support you have to earn it by your actions and respect. Thats what my WCO had done. I'd get BASC to explain this to the police - its a real live issue which can enhance or damage our image - in fact I'd have been doing this for years and by know have reac hed an understanding with training offered to all forces. Just MHO. +1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frenchieboy Posted September 29, 2012 Report Share Posted September 29, 2012 Who benefits? The public (get a prompt response and negates concerns, particularly landowners ) The police ( able to respond quickly, allays public concerns quickly, improves their service and their image and saves costs) The shooter - knowing the police must respond and its as well they do (not disturbed unreasonably, except by mobile call maybe at the wrong moment, potentially better response to incidents involving poaching with shotguns?.) Who doesn't - Shooters (infringement of personal freedom, personal cost) The public - loss of freedom without knowing it. The police - if a system is in place they WILL have to follow it and will fail a number of times. If we are asked nicely and not made to feel the criminal would we not see the balance as beneficial? If the attitude of police to shooters was universally these are reasonable people pursuing a legitimate sport and they can and do help us? If the police decided to make shooters their supporters and eyes and ears in the countryside wouldn't we respond? Would we benefit also from closer links to the police as credible supporters of law and order - a kind of rural special? My view is, given the above the answer is we benefit far more than we lose. Since I have that relationship with my wildlife crime officer, the fact that I'm treated barely civilly by other police isnt as important. In my view its down to the police - treat us properly and we will willingly respond with support but dont expect that support you have to earn it by your actions and respect. Thats what my WCO had done. I'd get BASC to explain this to the police - its a real live issue which can enhance or damage our image - in fact I'd have been doing this for years and by know have reac hed an understanding with training offered to all forces. Just MHO. A very good reply Kes showing both the pros and the cons! The only real question is should it be made obligatory or voulentary. I am the same as FisherUK, I just call the main switch board and they relay my details which is only a "local rate call" which I get free from my landline. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kes Posted September 29, 2012 Report Share Posted September 29, 2012 Frenchie, It should not be obligatory in my mind but something shooters see as in their best interests for the reasons I tried to give. A precursor would be the respect and a change in police attitude (universally), from shooter = criminal, to shooter = supporter and ally. Its up to them and its something BASC should be doing on our behalf - that and telling them when they are out of order. We had an incident in daylight involving a local farmer just shooting a few crows on his own land, 3 cars and a heli were sent - they need to get their act together too - some things would be too much to call in - unless we had complete trust and thats never going to happen. " Well meaning members of the public" who call out the police to disrupt our sport or for any malicious reason, should face a criminal charge of wasting police time to counterbalance our agreement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted September 29, 2012 Report Share Posted September 29, 2012 30p a minute from vodafone apparently. I'd ask to use the coppers phone and tell him you have 'premium rate numbers "such as 101" blocked'! Sometimes in a moment of crass stupidity I think that perhaps I should get one of these gizmos but then someone comes along with a very good reason why I shouldn't. Thanks, mate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fisheruk Posted September 29, 2012 Report Share Posted September 29, 2012 Sometimes in a moment of crass stupidity I think that perhaps I should get one of these gizmos but then someone comes along with a very good reason why I shouldn't. Thanks, mate. Best good reason for getting one is that they can save your life. If you are out by yourself and have a serious accident you can call for help. Before mobile phones came out I had a two way radio with me when I had a fall. I was able to call the ambulance. You never know when you might need one. Remember they have an off button! :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frenchieboy Posted September 29, 2012 Report Share Posted September 29, 2012 Kes, I'm not sure if you might have misunderstood my reply, what I was saying was that I agreed with you and that you gave a very good set of reasons for calling in and getting a log number which might well avoid the police being called out to legitimate shooters going about their lawful business. All I am saying is that while I see it as being beneficial in many cases I do not think it should be made obligatory. I also agree with you that it would be great if the police and the shooters could work more closely together with the police (In general) having a better and fuller knowledge of shooting laws. If this was possible and were to happen then as a combined force the police and the shooters would have a much better chance of acting as custodians of the countryside (Or as you sort of put it "the eyes and ears of the countryside") which could help to cut down on some rural crime such as poaching etc hence saving the police wasting both time and money. I still feel that it would be beneficial if the police (In general - Especially those in more rural locations) were a little more clued up on shooting related matters. With regards to how the police talk to you and treat you when they are called out to a report involving shooting or shooters I don't have much experience of that but I guess that much is down to the way that you talk to them - If you want to get bolshy and try telling them what is law and what is not law then you can expect them to be bolshy in return, after all they are only doing their job! - Treat others the way that you would like them to treat you is what I believe in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted September 29, 2012 Report Share Posted September 29, 2012 Best good reason for getting one is that they can save your life. If you are out by yourself and have a serious accident you can call for help. Before mobile phones came out I had a two way radio with me when I had a fall. I was able to call the ambulance. You never know when you might need one. Remember they have an off button! :-) When I was little some time ago we had got the hang of doing our own risk assessments (I think that's what they're called now) before the age of ten and also learnt not to do anything stupid. Somehow I've managed to survive for almost 70 years. Now, the most serious accident that I'm likely to suffer is some form of bladder malfunction. Or, of course, a catastrophic sense of humour failure which seems to be prevalent nowadays! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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