Kes Posted October 9, 2012 Report Share Posted October 9, 2012 (edited) So the government is clarifying the law - only 'grossly disproportionate action' will attract police interest - so what do we (with guns), see as grossly disproportionate. Maybe whilst keeping guns secure we can keep one by the bed with a trigger lock? Will this make burglars go armed ? Edited October 9, 2012 by Kes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave-G Posted October 9, 2012 Report Share Posted October 9, 2012 'grossly disproportionate action' still doesn't cut it in my book. That suggests I'd still have to wait for mr toe rag to lead me to suspect he's intends to harm me or my family before doing him some harm any way I can. The way it should be is: You enter my home without invitation you almost certainly WILL be harmed - any way I can. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walshie Posted October 9, 2012 Report Share Posted October 9, 2012 'grossly disproportionate action' still doesn't cut it in my book. That suggests I'd still have to wait for mr toe rag to lead me to suspect he's intends to harm me or my family before doing him some harm any way I can. The way it should be is: You enter my home without invitation you almost certainly WILL be harmed - any way I can. You should change the "almost certainly" for "definitely". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted October 9, 2012 Report Share Posted October 9, 2012 the fact is if you aren't acting in self defence then its still going to be difficult to get out of prison, keeping a gun by your bed should require all guns to be taken from you and licence torn up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
parapilot Posted October 9, 2012 Report Share Posted October 9, 2012 Make my job interesting. I do evictions regularly, gain access with police, and break in for national grid under the gas act. Etc etc All without invitation, but all legal. So it can't be just in your house without invitation, it must be you are in fear of your life, your family's life. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dougall Posted October 9, 2012 Report Share Posted October 9, 2012 Personally think the Law is about right as is..any 'Daily mail' type interpretation of lets all shoot burglars is not where our society needs to be going...guns must remain an absolute last/desperate resort. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
four-wheel-drive Posted October 9, 2012 Report Share Posted October 9, 2012 As I see it most burglars are said to be drug addicts and for the most part opportunist thieves but having said that could be dangerous if cornered but would probably be more interested in running if confronted. As for your hard core scum bag thieves who come in gangs the only way to deal with them is with force I personally believe that we should be allowed to have hand guns for home defence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guest1957 Posted October 9, 2012 Report Share Posted October 9, 2012 Personally think the Law is about right as is..any 'Daily mail' type interpretation of lets all shoot burglars is not where our society needs to be going...guns must remain an absolute last/desperate resort. Bang on mate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flynny Posted October 9, 2012 Report Share Posted October 9, 2012 (edited) 'grossly disproportionate action' still doesn't cut it in my book. That suggests I'd still have to wait for mr toe rag to lead me to suspect he's intends to harm me or my family before doing him some harm any way I can. The way it should be is: You enter my home without invitation you almost certainly WILL be harmed - any way I can. The nail has been hit on the head with a sledgehammer, I totally agree, they have entered your house without being invited, SOD EM and NAIL EM before they NAIL YOU AND YOUR HARD WORKING FAMILY, wether its with an ornament , fists, guns etc by any means at all SOD EM ALL, ATB Flynny. Edited October 9, 2012 by flynny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
four-wheel-drive Posted October 9, 2012 Report Share Posted October 9, 2012 the fact is if you aren't acting in self defence then its still going to be difficult to get out of prison, keeping a gun by your bed should require all guns to be taken from you and licence torn up. It is one thing for a fit young/middle aged man to comfront a burglar in your house but what if you are old - disabled - female what chance would they stand against a fit young man with an iron bar his his hand your only real defence is to have a hand gun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted October 9, 2012 Report Share Posted October 9, 2012 ahh god its walt o'clock Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beeredup Posted October 9, 2012 Report Share Posted October 9, 2012 bean bag rounds for home defence ?? non lethal but rather pain full??? i dont fancy firing a rubber baton round in the dining room as the ricochet could hurt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr_evil Posted October 9, 2012 Report Share Posted October 9, 2012 (edited) Wouldn't the fix here be for gun shops to stock non lethal riot rounds like rubber buckshot and slugs ? That way you wouldn't kill them but if they kept coming at you after being shot by one you would then be legitimate in the use of lead as a third shot ? Edited October 9, 2012 by Dr_evil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted October 9, 2012 Report Share Posted October 9, 2012 it would just encourage the walts to keep guns out of cabinets in case. Do that and watch the accident statistics go through the roof, just like the USA where countless children get their hands on loaded firearms and proceed to have accidents with them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikaveli Posted October 9, 2012 Report Share Posted October 9, 2012 Personally think the Law is about right as is..any 'Daily mail' type interpretation of lets all shoot burglars is not where our society needs to be going...guns must remain an absolute last/desperate resort. Bang on mate +1 P.S. What's a "walt" - seen the terms a few times but I have no idea? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guest1957 Posted October 9, 2012 Report Share Posted October 9, 2012 +1 P.S. What's a "walt" - seen the terms a few times but I have no idea? Google Walter Mitty. That will explain it more fully than I can Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crosshair Posted October 9, 2012 Report Share Posted October 9, 2012 I'm afraid it's all a lot of hot air, it is currently "Conference" time, where the politicians tell us what they think we want to here. Just ignore the headlines, the law has not changed, and is unlikely to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikaveli Posted October 9, 2012 Report Share Posted October 9, 2012 Google Walter Mitty. That will explain it more fully than I can Ahh... There is a military slang term, "Walt", which is an abbreviation of the name 'Walter Mitty', which refers to someone who has aspirations to become a soldier, but none of the necessary personal qualities. This slang can also refer to someone who poses as an (ex-)soldier but who isn't a soldier (serving or former), or who poses as something he isn't or wasn't; for example, regular army soldiers who pose as SAS troopers. The term is sometimes used to describe individuals who participate in 'wargames' such as Airsoft, Paintball, Military Re-enactment, and millitaria/weapon collecting that do not recognise that what they do for a hobby does not compare to military service. Strange, I'd never heard that term despite doing three tours of 'Nam... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zapp Posted October 9, 2012 Report Share Posted October 9, 2012 A change to the law in favour of those who use a "weapon" (vase, golf club, kitchen knife, or gun) in a moment of extreme fear and distress is so far removed from the specific acquisition of firearms or specialist ammunition for home defence as to be ridiculous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Full Pelt Posted October 9, 2012 Report Share Posted October 9, 2012 The law was changed in Italy a few years ago to allow home owners to use lethal force in protection of their lives and property when threatened by the rising tide of (mainly illegal immigrant) scum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
holly Posted October 9, 2012 Report Share Posted October 9, 2012 Ahh... Strange, I'd never heard that term despite doing three tours of 'Nam... cheltenham ?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted October 9, 2012 Report Share Posted October 9, 2012 I'm afraid it's all a lot of hot air, it is currently "Conference" time, where the politicians tell us what they think we want to here. Just ignore the headlines, the law has not changed, and is unlikely to. and really doesn't need to, its clear at the moment Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
four-wheel-drive Posted October 9, 2012 Report Share Posted October 9, 2012 Is it not an offence at the present time ( let alone firearms ) to have any means of defending oneself at hand Ie to have a carving knife or hammer at hand by your bed would be regarded as premeditated as you must have expected to be burgled or you would not have put them there ready to use. So you would be guilty of some offence probably best to do as al4x would want and not defend you self at all better to be a victim at least then the burglar would not be harmed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted October 9, 2012 Report Share Posted October 9, 2012 you're talking rubbish 4wd, I'm an avid cricketer gives me a reason to have a cricket bat by the bed, I'm also a shooter and have a knife in my shooting trousers in the bedroom. Its not about not defending yourself as has been proved time and time again you can defend yourself and you can use a firearm if you can account for being able to get it out of the cabinet and use in self defence. Where people have been in the kitchen and stabbed an intruder with a knife that came to hand they were released no charges. What you can't do is go all walt and have a handgun for protection or keep a gun by the bed in case that will always get you into trouble as it should. The conditions attached to our firearms stop you keeping them like that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
four-wheel-drive Posted October 9, 2012 Report Share Posted October 9, 2012 you're talking rubbish 4wd, I'm an avid cricketer gives me a reason to have a cricket bat by the bed, I'm also a shooter and have a knife in my shooting trousers in the bedroom. Its not about not defending yourself as has been proved time and time again you can defend yourself and you can use a firearm if you can account for being able to get it out of the cabinet and use in self defence. Where people have been in the kitchen and stabbed an intruder with a knife that came to hand they were released no charges. What you can't do is go all walt and have a handgun for protection or keep a gun by the bed in case that will always get you into trouble as it should. The conditions attached to our firearms stop you keeping them like that. You can insult me all you please I do not much care what you think. I would imagine that many people would not have there shotguns to hand in there bedroom they would probably be locked away in gun cabinets under the stairs or somewhere downstairs so they would not be in a place that you could get to them should an intruder brake in. Also many people are not in to sports that use bats or swords or such like so would have no reason to have them in there bedroom apart from defending themselves from burglars and I do not think that a slipper or coat hanger would do much to stop anyone. As for my thought about people having handguns in the bedroom for protection I was working on the assumption that it would be kept in a small combination safe in a wardrobe or cupbaurd that was easy to get at should the gun be needed if an intruder was already in your room it would be to late to do much at that point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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