Putting a pup outside

[ollie]

Hi guys, would like to ask your opinion about something. I have just moved into a new house and I pick up my 8 week old Cocker Pup this weekend. Myself and my partner work during the day so I plan on keeping the pup outside in the new kennel/run I'm constructing. The pup will be kenneled up along with my 3 year old Springer Bitch, until it is old enough to be seperated into different pens. The kennel is being constructed out of ply and they have a concrete run.

 

My question is will the pup be ok outside at night in the Autumn/Winter?

Will the heat from my Springer Bitch be enough to keep the pup warm?

Should I insulate the kennel?

Should I provide any bedding?

 

I hope the Springer Bitch and Cocker Pup will get on ok together. But would really appreciate the opinion of the more experienced dog owners on here.

[Millomite]

I'd definitely insulate the kennel if it was me, I've used 50mm polystyrene sheets between the tongue and groove exterior and the 4mm ply lining. I bed mine on saw dust at the moment but it can be a pain to clear up when they drag it out of the kennel. However it's cheap, easily removed and replaced and they can't chew it. If the kennels insulated properly with no draughts then there shouldn't be too many issues in terms of keeping the pup warm enough.

[bobthedug]

Hi there,

 

If you are putting such a young dog into a kennel, one of the things to consider is you will probably end up with a dogs thats not house trained and will be conditioned into crapping in the kennel or run.

 

Its so much easier to take a dog from an indoor enviroment and put him outside. Rearing them outside brings certain issues with acceptable table manners ect if they are occasionally allowed inside when older.

 

Asfar as the kennel itself goes, the dog must have a section which is dry and draught free. As far as bedding goes, with winter coming you will need something to keep the dog warm. I personally use bales os hay, very cheap and easily obtainable and simply burned when finished with. Ask 10 owners with outside dogs and you will get 10 different recommendations for suitable bedding!

 

Maybe worthwhile installing one of these tube heaters which cost pennies to run and if enclosed behind mesh, are perfectly safe.

 

Also meant to add, be very careful about leaving the pup in an enclosed space with your 3 yr old bitch. If your not there to supervise, the pup could end up with a sore one if it annoys the older dog who is unable you get away from the pup. Maybe to start with, have a low partition that the older dog can jump over to get away from the pup if she wants to.

 

Bob

Edited October 9, 2012 by bobthedug

[ETO]

Personally I wouldn't put a pup outside until at least 6 months old. You need to bond with the pup first, as well as training in the forms of toilet training and in basics, also if the pup grows up and ever needs to be moved into the house - all the daily sounds like the kettle popping or the washing machine etc will be new to it so it'll not know what to do. You may also find that your bitch doesn't take to him straight away, or he may try to suckle and she may take offence..

 

Also it's getting cold now, so unless you have heating within the kennel, your pup could get seriously ill.

 

I would think about crating him in the house but getting him used to the kennel gradually by feeding him in there, maybe a couple of hours sleeping in there and as he gets older increase the amount of time in which he spends in the kennel and then at 6 months he should be in the kennel around the clock until you bring him out.. If that makes sense. That's how I would do it anyway.

[scutt]

if you want to make life hard for you and the pup confuse it by keeping indoors then sticking it out side you should start the way you mean to go on. kennel with offset door and shelf out of drafts bedding when winter turns up hay or if you can get it offcuts of tea bag paper the dogs will keep each other warm the pup will probably sleep on top of the older dog just my opinion.enjoy your new cocker.

[hitfreshairagain]

Im with scutt if the dog is to be kenned then use the kennel from the word go .Any dog taken from an indoor environment with a higher temp and the company of a family will find the transfering to a kennel harsh,be prepared for alot of whining and barking.My 8 week old lab went straight in his kennel from day 1 and was perfectly happy.Re the sleeping area.I have a dog flap that goes from his run into a sleeping area which has 6 inches of celotex insulation on a concrete floor with ply over the top and 3 inches of celotex around the walls and on the roof area(again coverd with ply).Remember the sleeping area shouldnt be to big as the dogs own body heat warms the den just as it would in the wild.Any Q feel free to message me and good luck. Lee

[ollie]

I'd definitely insulate the kennel if it was me, I've used 50mm polystyrene sheets between the tongue and groove exterior and the 4mm ply lining. I bed mine on saw dust at the moment but it can be a pain to clear up when they drag it out of the kennel. However it's cheap, easily removed and replaced and they can't chew it. If the kennels insulated properly with no draughts then there shouldn't be too many issues in terms of keeping the pup warm enough.

 

Thanks for advice, as a cocker owner I am glad you said it should be warm enough. I will look into the polystyrene sheets.

 

Hi there,

 

If you are putting such a young dog into a kennel, one of the things to consider is you will probably end up with a dogs thats not house trained and will be conditioned into crapping in the kennel or run.

 

Its so much easier to take a dog from an indoor enviroment and put him outside. Rearing them outside brings certain issues with acceptable table manners ect if they are occasionally allowed inside when older.

 

Asfar as the kennel itself goes, the dog must have a section which is dry and draught free. As far as bedding goes, with winter coming you will need something to keep the dog warm. I personally use bales os hay, very cheap and easily obtainable and simply burned when finished with. Ask 10 owners with outside dogs and you will get 10 different recommendations for suitable bedding!

 

Maybe worthwhile installing one of these tube heaters which cost pennies to run and if enclosed behind mesh, are perfectly safe.

 

Also meant to add, be very careful about leaving the pup in an enclosed space with your 3 yr old bitch. If your not there to supervise, the pup could end up with a sore one if it annoys the older dog who is unable you get away from the pup. Maybe to start with, have a low partition that the older dog can jump over to get away from the pup if she wants to.

 

Bob

 

Thanks for the advice Bob. All my dogs have always been kenneled outside and them going to the toilet in the run is not a problem, as they will be cleaned regularly. The dog will never find it's way inside, as even during the winter months the dogs are kept outside. I was worried about the pup suckling the Bitch, but I would imagine my bitch wouldn't bite him as she is very timid.

 

Personally I wouldn't put a pup outside until at least 6 months old. You need to bond with the pup first, as well as training in the forms of toilet training and in basics, also if the pup grows up and ever needs to be moved into the house - all the daily sounds like the kettle popping or the washing machine etc will be new to it so it'll not know what to do. You may also find that your bitch doesn't take to him straight away, or he may try to suckle and she may take offence..

 

Also it's getting cold now, so unless you have heating within the kennel, your pup could get seriously ill.

 

I would think about crating him in the house but getting him used to the kennel gradually by feeding him in there, maybe a couple of hours sleeping in there and as he gets older increase the amount of time in which he spends in the kennel and then at 6 months he should be in the kennel around the clock until you bring him out.. If that makes sense. That's how I would do it anyway.

 

The dogs will never be moved inside. Heating is unfortunately not an option as the run is at the back of the garden.

 

if you want to make life hard for you and the pup confuse it by keeping indoors then sticking it out side you should start the way you mean to go on. kennel with offset door and shelf out of drafts bedding when winter turns up hay or if you can get it offcuts of tea bag paper the dogs will keep each other warm the pup will probably sleep on top of the older dog just my opinion.enjoy your new cocker.

 

My feelings exactly, I feel that if it starts life outside then I don't need any form of transition. Teabag offcuts, I have never heard of them, will have to look into it.

 

Im with scutt if the dog is to be kenned then use the kennel from the word go .Any dog taken from an indoor environment with a higher temp and the company of a family will find the transfering to a kennel harsh,be prepared for alot of whining and barking.My 8 week old lab went straight in his kennel from day 1 and was perfectly happy.Re the sleeping area.I have a dog flap that goes from his run into a sleeping area which has 6 inches of celotex insulation on a concrete floor with ply over the top and 3 inches of celotex around the walls and on the roof area(again coverd with ply).Remember the sleeping area shouldnt be to big as the dogs own body heat warms the den just as it would in the wild.Any Q feel free to message me and good luck. Lee

 

Thanks for the advice, I felt that at least my bitch can keep the pup company and if it was left inside the house alone at night then it would be whining and yelping.

 

Keep the suggestions coming lads, they are all very welcome. The position of the run is in the corner of the garden which is sheltered from the prevaling wind by a fence behind, it is also sheltered on 1 side by a hedge, therefore I don't think draft is going to be an issue. Do you think the pup will try and suckle from my bitch although it is has been seperated from the Mother for a while and is on Puppy food?

[fenboy]

Draft will be a issue prevailing wind or not , my kennel is insulated , it has a sleeping box inside the kennel , the box is such a height that my cocker can use it as a shelf if he so wishes ,I also have heat in there should I need it , surely it would be possible to run some armoured cable to the kennel where ever it is situated ?.

The suggestion that there is a low partition in the kennel so the older dog can jump over is good advice , your older dog may be very timid but they can soon change if they are being constantly provoked and as you will not be around most of the day a lot of damage to the pup could be done in a few seconds.

[WGD]

Firstly I wouldn't kennel an 8 week old pup with a mature dog without constant supervision which is obviously not possible; notwithstanding the pup getting nipped or hurt (as fenboy said it can all happen very quickly) it could also easily be stood on.

 

Putting an 8 week old pup in an unheated kennel on its own at this time of year is madness IMO, it is hard enough to give them the right balance of food to allow them to develop properly without them having to use all their energy keeping warm.

 

I don't have a heated kennel so pups stay in the house in a crate until between 4 and 6 months depending on the weather. And house training them before they go out to the kennel DOES keep a much cleaner kennel.

 

The social aspect of being in the house is not to be underestimated... washing machines, hoovers, tv, radio, guests, doorbells etc all help to condition the pup.

[kent]

I havent an issue with an 8wk old pup outside (indeed i have more of an issue with indoor dogs being taken out in tough winter conditions personally)

 

The pup should still spend time indoors for socialisation and house training and this should also kept up through its life, reason is you never know when it might have to come inside.

 

I shouldn't put a pup of 8wks out alone with any adult dog other than its dam - period!

 

the kennel should by dry, clean,safe and free of drafts and a small heater aint a bad idea in the sleeping quarters from autum onwards

[Tom&Dexter]

Firstly I wouldn't kennel an 8 week old pup with a mature dog without constant supervision which is obviously not possible; notwithstanding the pup getting nipped or hurt (as fenboy said it can all happen very quickly) it could also easily be stood on.

 

Putting an 8 week old pup in an unheated kennel on its own at this time of year is madness IMO, it is hard enough to give them the right balance of food to allow them to develop properly without them having to use all their energy keeping warm.

 

I don't have a heated kennel so pups stay in the house in a crate until between 4 and 6 months depending on the weather. And house training them before they go out to the kennel DOES keep a much cleaner kennel.

 

The social aspect of being in the house is not to be underestimated... washing machines, hoovers, tv, radio, guests, doorbells etc all help to condition the pup.

 

[ollie]

Quick update on the pup lads. I have had him since Sunday and I was off on Sunday and Monday. So what I did was, I kept him outside in the run during the day on Sunday and Monday along with the Bitch as I was able to supervise them. I have been taking him inside the house at Dinner time (6pm) every night and keeping him in the kitchen until I go to work on the morning. I think I will keep this practice up until he is a bit older and big enough to move into the run full time. Thanks for all the advice.

 

The house training is coming along ok, he is still doing an odd one in his box, but most of them he is doing outside. Any help you can provide for house training would be a big help?

[brettguise]

I have a 14 week old lab and from day one she has been kennelled alone at night and during the day and is allowed in the house when we arrive back from work. She is like a bottle of pop when let in but she soon calms down and sleeps. She doesn't bark or cry. Maybe I got lucky but I lock the kennel up and close the door to the outside so there is no drafts. Plenty of bedding and she seems fine. Already has a nice thick coat as well.

[eccles]

Firstly I wouldn't kennel an 8 week old pup with a mature dog without constant supervision which is obviously not possible; notwithstanding the pup getting nipped or hurt (as fenboy said it can all happen very quickly) it could also easily be stood on.

 

Putting an 8 week old pup in an unheated kennel on its own at this time of year is madness IMO, it is hard enough to give them the right balance of food to allow them to develop properly without them having to use all their energy keeping warm.

 

I don't have a heated kennel so pups stay in the house in a crate until between 4 and 6 months depending on the weather. And house training them before they go out to the kennel DOES keep a much cleaner kennel.

 

The social aspect of being in the house is not to be underestimated... washing machines, hoovers, tv, radio, guests, doorbells etc all help to condition the pup.

:good: Well put Will

[Greymaster]

I would not recommend sawdust as it will be breathed in and congest the airways.

[tigger]

I would not recommend sawdust as it will be breathed in and congest the airways.

 

Yeah with you on that one, also I have put young pups outside with no problems, but I have in my kennels a tube heater with a guard and thermostat only cost about £20 dogs seem to love getting up to it especially after being out on the marsh in subzero temperatures so that's what I would recommend to get.......

[Jimmer]

I would definatly crate train the pup from the word go at night, as rightly said you never know when your dog might need to come indoors or stay at the vets. best to start with the crate just big enough for the dog to turn around in I used a large crate sectioned off with some ply and cable ties so they don't use it as a bed one end and a toilet the other end it is amazing how quick they learn. Also the go pee command when first let out of the kennel/ run is a good idea to start young. I have a tubular heater on a frost stat so if the temp gets below 10degrees the heater comes on but the kennel is also insulated with 50mm cellotex and has a dog leg with transparent vertical draft stips. My dog is bedded with barley straw which is quite soft, some people say the dust can cause the dogs problems but mine has been fine with it. I also have a wireless tempareture sensor in the kennel with a readout that is in the house this is handy for keeping an eye on the tempareture in the cold months.

Hope this might provide some advise from my own experience. Good luck.