BRNDL Posted December 11, 2012 Author Report Share Posted December 11, 2012 Oh...just to finish off, the thread states people HAVE broken the law using red diesel...being past tense, Not breaking the law which assumes they are engaging real time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
officerdibble777 Posted December 11, 2012 Report Share Posted December 11, 2012 your trying too hard to find justification, what are you looking for ? Do you want someone to say it's ok son just you go ahead and use it ? Well here it is .Go on son just you use it it's ok good luck on the late night bus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRNDL Posted December 11, 2012 Author Report Share Posted December 11, 2012 your trying too hard to find justification, what are you looking for ? Do you want someone to say it's ok son just you go ahead and use it ? Well here it is .Go on son just you use it it's ok good luck on the late night bus I have decided NOT to take up the offer FYI. That said, I can appreciate why some would use it. As for justification, No. Are you trying to justify why the use of red is unacceptable againt other laws, rules and regulations? I think they are BOTH wrong in todays society, but you are seperating this from what YOU think is socially acceptable! Are you not? Its not ok to use red but it is ok to disrespect other laws? Or can you agree that, in a similar fashion ALL LAW BREAKING is unjust theirfore deeming people that break laws " scum bags"? or "untrustworthy" of a better word Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m3vert Posted December 11, 2012 Report Share Posted December 11, 2012 You seem to have been very selective on the points to which you have responded here. 1.Are you and have you always been a law obiding citizen? Simple yes or no will sufice. 2. Have you ever taken tobacco, booze or similar that has not had the duty paid? Speeding...I was angling down the lines of being a respectable law abiding citizen that fronts the face of U.K law. A trustworthy character to whom would be the ideal candidate for an FAO. I did not say you would be refused on these grounds and the likely hood of being refused running red diesel would certainly IMO outway that of speeding fines. But of the both which deems you NOT to be an untrustworthy, disrespectful citizen for the UKs rules and regulations. Its a question that can relate to a mass proportion of the population. Answer....cut out the fluffy stuff and they are both along similar lines.......................................................You either uphold the law in totality or pick and choose where you see fit. I wouldnt take the moral highground unless your are...as I stated in my above post, SQUEEKY CLEAN. You choose not to use red diesel, but you may choose to bend or break the law in other situations... "You own him now" How very American. With the exception of a 40 in a 30mph fine 24yrs ago have never been in trouble with the law so I am indeed law abiding. so that answers your 1st point I dont smoke have never done so and only bring back the amount of cigs I am allowed for family if asked, have a very good source for cheap whisky so no need to smuggle that either so its a no to your second point my friend. Maybe makes me boring but def law abiding, oh and wait til you here this one, I work abroad BUT still pay my taxes!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRNDL Posted December 11, 2012 Author Report Share Posted December 11, 2012 With the exception of a 40 in a 30mph fine 24yrs ago have never been in trouble with the law so I am indeed law abiding. so that answers your 1st point I dont smoke have never done so and only bring back the amount of cigs I am allowed for family if asked, have a very good source for cheap whisky so no need to smuggle that either so its a no to your second point my friend. Maybe makes me boring but def law abiding, oh and wait til you here this one, I work abroad BUT still pay my taxes!!!! Thats very honest of you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon R Posted December 11, 2012 Report Share Posted December 11, 2012 Drivers commit speeding offences - full stop. Most would argue it is accidental - not everyone drives like an idiot all the time. If someone sets out every day with the intention of breaking the speed limit, I trust they will pay the price. Using red diesel is a deliberate act of fraud. It does not normally happen accidentally. When you put it in the tank, there is one purpose - to commit tax evasion. Comparing the two, to try to excuse red diesel users, is just a bit simplistic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobt Posted December 11, 2012 Report Share Posted December 11, 2012 bringing cigs back for others in a no no, they should be for your own use, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m3vert Posted December 11, 2012 Report Share Posted December 11, 2012 wot even if your giving them away? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evo Posted December 11, 2012 Report Share Posted December 11, 2012 (edited) bouncer,,,,,,yes sir i have broken the law on many occasions in the past through my own immature stupidity,,but i have been law abiding for 16years now why because i learnt my lesson,,seems to me you obviously havn,t learnt yours,,,shame on you oh and yes i am now a pillar of my community and no i never break the speed limit Edited December 11, 2012 by evo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRNDL Posted December 11, 2012 Author Report Share Posted December 11, 2012 Drivers commit speeding offences - full stop. Most would argue it is accidental - not everyone drives like an idiot all the time. If someone sets out every day with the intention of breaking the speed limit, I trust they will pay the price. Using red diesel is a deliberate act of fraud. It does not normally happen accidentally. When you put it in the tank, there is one purpose - to commit tax evasion. Comparing the two, to try to excuse red diesel users, is just a bit simplistic. A bit simplistic...please! Just because someone uses red diesel with the intent of defrauding the tax system does not, in my opinion seperate themselves from others breaking the law in a different mannor. I agree there is a measurable severity to conclude, as I think stealing a mars bar against the continous use of red is, in a "simplistic" way breaking the law. Now the simplistic overview is one that strips the topic down to its bones and bares reality. Start to add all the fluffy stuff and you get the points that you raised. If you stop dressing things up to appear more acceptable than reality we may all have a better understanding of right and wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRNDL Posted December 11, 2012 Author Report Share Posted December 11, 2012 bouncer,,,,,,yes sir i have broken the law on many occasions in the past through my own immature stupidity,,but i have been law abiding for 16years now why because i learnt my lesson,,seems to me you obviously havn,t learnt yours,,,shame on you oh and yes i am now a pillar of my community and no i never break the speed limit Well EVO, I applaud you on making the transition from "scumbag" as you so kindly put it to " a pillar of your local community". EVERYONE breaks the law at some stage in their life...its becomes an issue when this activity is deemed acceptable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sprackles Posted December 11, 2012 Report Share Posted December 11, 2012 How many of us on here would report a hunt for killing a fox........just wondering....its also illegal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRNDL Posted December 11, 2012 Author Report Share Posted December 11, 2012 How many of us on here would report a hunt for killing a fox........just wondering....its also illegal. Good thinking Sprackles. You either uphold the law or you dont, its quite simple. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evo Posted December 11, 2012 Report Share Posted December 11, 2012 well well,,i knew it would soon creep in sprackles :no: :no: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m3vert Posted December 11, 2012 Report Share Posted December 11, 2012 No I think the Police uphold the law, law abiding citizens simply abide by it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRNDL Posted December 11, 2012 Author Report Share Posted December 11, 2012 No I think the Police uphold the law, law abiding citizens simply abide by it. I stand corrected...sorry just txt writing whilst driving...............................slip of the finger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m3vert Posted December 11, 2012 Report Share Posted December 11, 2012 I stand corrected...sorry just txt writing whilst driving...............................slip of the finger lol yir quite the comic, ma sides are splittin! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRNDL Posted December 11, 2012 Author Report Share Posted December 11, 2012 lol yir quite the comic, ma sides are splittin! Haha, glad you enjoyed it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martyn2233 Posted December 11, 2012 Report Share Posted December 11, 2012 wot even if your giving them away? yes own use only that's why it's called personal use NOT give away Use How many of us on here would report a hunt for killing a fox........just wondering....its also illegal. not me crack on get the lot for me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bedwards1966 Posted December 11, 2012 Report Share Posted December 11, 2012 Can't use red for horticulture on the road. Tractor with ballon tyres with a grass cutter on red will get seized. Seen it done. Not sure about forestry either but can't remember off the top of my head. Harry You can - this is from the list of excepted vehicles on the HMRC website. 8.3 Tractors To qualify as an excepted vehicle, the tractor must be an agricultural tractor designed and constructed primarily for use otherwise than on roads. It must be used on public roads solely for: (a) purposes relating to agriculture, horticulture or forestry, (B) cutting verges bordering public roads, or © cutting hedges or trees bordering public roads or bordering verges which border public roads. See paragraph 8.21 for what we mean by activities falling within agriculture, horticulture or forestry. If a tractor has a vehicle Excise licence as a general haulage vehicle it cannot use red diesel as a fuel either on or off public roads, regardless of whether it is undertaking agricultural, horticultural or forestry work. This is because it is licensed to perform other work and is not therefore assumed to be used solely for agriculture, horticulture or forestry. Perhaps the one you saw seized was done by someone with no understanding of what they were doing (highly possible), or where there was some other reason why the vehicle wasn't legit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRNDL Posted December 11, 2012 Author Report Share Posted December 11, 2012 well well,,i knew it would soon creep in sprackles :no: :no: Has Sprackles said something you dont like to hear evo? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martyn2233 Posted December 11, 2012 Report Share Posted December 11, 2012 Has Sprackles said something you dont like to hear evo? why don't you just use red or don't use red got nothing to do with pigeon watch massive Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trevorevans Posted December 11, 2012 Report Share Posted December 11, 2012 (edited) I've known people with low paid jobs working miles from home use red. I know it's wrong and so did they but the option was to work at a loss or be unemployed. Wanting to feed their family and keep a roof over their head neither was really an option. I put it to all you guys who bang on about the tax evasion what would cost the tax payer more 1- The loss of duty on some fuel or 2- the user of said fuel becoming unemployed so there will be no income tax collected, no VAT collected from their leisure activities as they'd be unable to afford any and they also end up on the dole living in a council owned property. I don't agree with people using it and nor do I use it but can see in some circumstance why people do use it. If it came down to a choice of paying the huge government tax on my fuel or keeping the family warm and fed, well its not really a choice and I'm sure most of you would do the same, at least those that could even imagine being in such a position. I also find it difficult to understand the idea that people who use red diesel should not be allowed to hold certificates. The way I see it is that the only offences you can really commit with your firearm would be murder, attempted murder or threatening behaviour involving a firearm, all a little more serious than avoiding a hugely inflated fuel tax, both activities illegal yes but totally different ends of the spectrum. If I really needed to keep myself on the road and had no other choice I'd probably use a bit of iffy diesel bit, different to waving a gun under someone's nose for me. Edited December 11, 2012 by Trevorevans Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evo Posted December 11, 2012 Report Share Posted December 11, 2012 I've known people with low paid jobs working miles from home use red. I know it's wrong and so did they but the option was to work at a loss or be unemployed. Wanting to feed their family and keep a roof over their head neither was really an option. I put it to all you guys who bang on about the tax evasion what would cost the tax payer more 1- The loss of duty on some fuel or 2- the user of said fuel becoming unemployed so there will be no income tax collected, no VAT collected from their leisure activities as they'd be unable to afford any and they also end up on the dole living in a council owned property. I don't agree with people using it and nor do I use it but can see in some circumstance why people do use it. If it came down to a choice of paying the huge government tax on my fuel or keeping the family warm and fed well its not really a choice and I'm sure most of you would do the same, at least those that could even imagine being in such a position. I also find it difficult to understand the idea that people who use red diesel should not be allowed to hold certificates. The way I see it is that the only offences you can really commit with your firearm would be murder, attempted murder or threatening behaviour involving a firearm, all a little more serious than avoiding a hugely inflated fuel tax, both activities illegal yes but totally different ends of the spectrum. If I really needed to keep myself on the road and had no other choice I'd probably use a bit of iffy diesel bit different to waving a gun under someone's nose for me. :hmm: :hmm: :hmm: strange answer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRNDL Posted December 11, 2012 Author Report Share Posted December 11, 2012 :hmm: :hmm: :hmm: strange answer Think it's more of a plea for justification of using red. The "what if" scenario which we can all appreciate I think. What if XYZ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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