Scully Posted December 21, 2012 Report Share Posted December 21, 2012 Whats to stop one of the armed guards going on a shooting spree. The OTHER armed guard/s? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ordnance Posted December 21, 2012 Report Share Posted December 21, 2012 hence the nra's plan to totally remove gun free zones How would that help. ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ordnance Posted December 21, 2012 Report Share Posted December 21, 2012 (edited) The OTHER armed guard/s? So what is needed are armed guards to watch the armed guards. Edited December 21, 2012 by ordnance Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guest1957 Posted December 21, 2012 Report Share Posted December 21, 2012 So what is needed are armed guards to watch the armed guards. I see a flaw in their oh so cunning plan... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Breastman Posted December 21, 2012 Report Share Posted December 21, 2012 I see a flaw in their oh so cunning plan... Well what happens if a policeman goes nuts? Or a soldier, or the President and he launches some nukes? :rolls eyes: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mossy835 Posted December 22, 2012 Report Share Posted December 22, 2012 well you talk two a lot of them,they love there guns and will any thing not two lose them.they dont want two lock them up.because of home defence, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gimlet Posted December 22, 2012 Report Share Posted December 22, 2012 The more I see and read about all this now the news is saturated with US gun question, the more amazed I am by the sheer number of loaded firearms that are just left lying around in the US. Millions of people it seems keep loaded guns next to their beds, in drawers, in cupboards for 'home defence'. They carry loaded handguns when they walk urban streets. It strikes me that a huge part of America's gun problem is security. They tote them around like loose change and throw them down carelessly like car keys. The only surprize is that lunatics don't get their hands on them more often. It doesn't mtter how many guns are in circulation or what type, or how they are licensed if there is no culture of gun security. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shakari Posted December 22, 2012 Report Share Posted December 22, 2012 The more I see and read about all this now the news is saturated with US gun question, the more amazed I am by the sheer number of loaded firearms that are just left lying around in the US. Millions of people it seems keep loaded guns next to their beds, in drawers, in cupboards for 'home defence'. They carry loaded handguns when they walk urban streets. It strikes me that a huge part of America's gun problem is security. They tote them around like loose change and throw them down carelessly like car keys. The only surprize is that lunatics don't get their hands on them more often. It doesn't mtter how many guns are in circulation or what type, or how they are licensed if there is no culture of gun security. I'd guess I'm one of the few here who have lived in an environment where it's sensible (to say the least) to have a firearm for home and self defence and believe me, when you need it for that purpose, you need to have it loaded and accessible at all times. An unloaded or locked up self defence firearm isn't a self defence firearm at all. Of course, it has to kept safe from children etc but other than that, it needs to be right there and ready for use at a moments notice and at all times. FWIW, the rules I always followed (in a child free environment) were when at home in South Africa, the handgun was always fully loaded and chambered with the safety catch on and worn on my hip in a concealed carry when out and when in the house, it was in a holster fixed to the underside of my bedside table...... I now live in Europe and no longer have the handgun because I don't need it but the holster is still fixed to the underside of the table. Other self defence precautions were also followed such as I'd never sit in a public place unless I could have my back to a wall and see what's coming towards me and/or going on around me....... and that's a habit I'll probably never get out of. I'd also be aware of what's going on around me when driving and as recommended by the RSA cops, would slow at a red light at night but if all was clear, would just jump the lights and go. There are also a few other precautions but they're the main ones. All that probably sounds a bit paranoid to you guys but believe me, it's a way of life and I know of very few whites in RSA who don't take similar precautions as a matter of course. Other precautions when living in the bush for months on end was to have a night watchman to look out for wandering animals coming into camp and sleeping with my .500 propped in the corner. That wouldn't have a round chambered but would have a full mag so all one had to do was chamber a round. I appreciate the bit about living in the bush isn't really relevent but thought I'd mention it anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paxtond Posted December 22, 2012 Report Share Posted December 22, 2012 The American carry laws are strange to us but as important so some people as their keys or wallet. I recently went to a friends parents house in Miami, $9million house with $300k worth of cars on the driver. A 10 min walk in to the city takes you in to poverty ridden slums with a nasty gang culture. Scott's dad keeps a desert eagle and a mosberg pump for home protection with some rem ammo labeled critically home defence. Over here we have a lot more respect for our guns, a 22lr is seen as a toy, when I was 5 my dad got me a GAT gun shooting corks at cans. In the USA most children get started off with a rugar 10/22. One thing I did think on a previous thread when people were saying they would use their guns for home protection, if you have time to get your keys, get your gun, unlock your ammo, load the gun. How immediate is the threat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shakari Posted December 22, 2012 Report Share Posted December 22, 2012 Always remember the old saying: 'When seconds count the cops are just minutes away' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Therealchucknorris Posted December 22, 2012 Report Share Posted December 22, 2012 Take a child, any child, sit them in front of a TV showing violence and or a games console playing the latest `Kill All lifeforms You can` game for 8 hrs a day for say 15 years or more and we are suprised that things go wrong. Lets just hope its the last time. I fundamentally disagree with that. I grew up watching Tom & Jerry and Roadrunner cartoons then have been playing Grand Theft Auto and the Call of Duty games for years. I don't harbour any desire to smack a housekeeper round the face with a frying pan, set an IED to kill any rodents, hijack a car, kill a prostitute or go on a rampage with any form of weapon. Get real - it's more down to lack of responsibility and accountability by the person and their family than any game or something on the gogglebox. The mental health issue and instilling social norms and values in the family unit is far more relevant to keeping our communities on an even keel. It won't be the last time if all that people focus on is banning some computer game or two. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted December 22, 2012 Report Share Posted December 22, 2012 I know of very few whites in RSA who don't take similar precautions as a matter of course. I have relatives in Krugersdorf(?) just outside Jo'berg.All are armed and don't go anywhere unless they are.It's no big thing to them,and they regard it as natural as you or I pick up our mobiles. Just a way of life to them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gimlet Posted December 22, 2012 Report Share Posted December 22, 2012 (edited) All that probably sounds a bit paranoid to you guys but believe me, it's a way of life and I know of very few whites in RSA who don't take similar precautions as a matter of course. South Africa is one of the most violent countries on Earth where life is cheap. I know what its like. I know farm houses have bars at every window and dogs that are 'kaffir trained.' I know they have 'kaffir rifles' to hand specifically for use against intruders. I know they carry side arms everywhere, and I know you can be killed for your watch or a packet of cigarettes or because of the colour of your skin. Its a brutalised country and when Nelson Mandela dies the **** may hit the fan in spectacular style. But with respect, the US is not South Africa. It has its hell holes but its not in the same league as RSA. Small town America is by and large as safe as small town Britain. Loaded ready-to-hand firearms are not a necessity nationwide, they are just a gratuitous relic of vanished pioneer past. South Africa is South Dakota circa 1860. America is not. Edited December 22, 2012 by Gimlet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shakari Posted December 22, 2012 Report Share Posted December 22, 2012 Gimlet, There are many parts of the US where self defence is considered as much a necessity as it is in many parts of RSA and anyone who thinks otherwise is either looking at it through rose tinted spectacles or hasn't been to those places........ and even the good areas can have bad people coming into them who consider the lives of others as being very cheap. Even if one such area or one such person exists then so does the need to defend against them......... Most parts of the UK is far safer than many parts of either the US or RSA and yet similar crimes also happen there. It was only a few months ago that a householder shot and wounded burglars who had broken into his house and not that many years ago that Tony someone or other shot and killed a ***** burglar and was (disgracefully) sent to jail for defending his safety and property. In the former case, the family were so worried about revenge attacks they emigrated to Australia within a few short weeks........ If these criminals are willing to break into an occupied house, they're probably willing to do the householder serious harm (at the very least) and I for one as many Americans do, believe that any person that breaks into your property deserves to leave all his human rights, including right to life at the point of entrance. As I see it, every law abiding citizen of any and every country should have the right to bear arms and to use them against those who want to do me, my loved ones and/or my property harm. The Americans have that right and I don't blame them at all for hanging onto it as hard as they can. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paladin Posted December 22, 2012 Report Share Posted December 22, 2012 Always remember the old saying: 'When seconds count the cops are just minutes away' Earlier in my lifetime it would be 'good reason' to own a firearm for self defence if the Police were 45 minutes away. Now, where I live the toe rags know when to commit crimes because some of the Police Stations are part time and close because of cutbacks!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonathanL Posted December 22, 2012 Report Share Posted December 22, 2012 South Africa is one of the most violent countries on Earth where life is cheap. I know what its like. I know farm houses have bars at every window and dogs that are 'kaffir trained.' I know they have 'kaffir rifles' to hand specifically for use against intruders. I know they carry side arms everywhere, and I know you can be killed for your watch or a packet of cigarettes or because of the colour of your skin. Its a brutalised country and when Nelson Mandela dies the **** may hit the fan in spectacular style. But with respect, the US is not South Africa. It has its hell holes but its not in the same league as RSA. Small town America is by and large as safe as small town Britain. Loaded ready-to-hand firearms are not a necessity nationwide, they are just a gratuitous relic of vanished pioneer past. South Africa is South Dakota circa 1860. America is not. That isn't entirely true though. The whole Second Amendment thing is misunderstood by people outside the USA and probably by many Americans as well. It isn't about pioneers having the means to conquer untamed lands. It isn't about having a means of getting food for the pot or the Thanksgiving Turkey. It isn't about being able to protect your self, family and property from nefarious vaillans. It's about the citizenry being able to say to their rulers, 'If you try to oppress us then we'll kill you!'. It really is that simple. It all stems from the fact that we Brits tried to seize arms from American citizens so they they couldn't rebel. It didn't work and the war of independence kicked off. Following that it was entirely rational that the right to keep and bear arms was enshrined in the constitution because had they not had those arms then they would never have become independent. J. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vipa Posted December 23, 2012 Report Share Posted December 23, 2012 That isn't entirely true though. The whole Second Amendment thing is misunderstood by people outside the USA and probably by many Americans as well. It isn't about pioneers having the means to conquer untamed lands. It isn't about having a means of getting food for the pot or the Thanksgiving Turkey. It isn't about being able to protect your self, family and property from nefarious vaillans. It's about the citizenry being able to say to their rulers, 'If you try to oppress us then we'll kill you!'. It really is that simple. It all stems from the fact that we Brits tried to seize arms from American citizens so they they couldn't rebel. It didn't work and the war of independence kicked off. Following that it was entirely rational that the right to keep and bear arms was enshrined in the constitution because had they not had those arms then they would never have become independent. J. Correct... it has been said that the least likely country to be chosen as a target for a military invasion is the USA... no where else in the world would such an invading force find 300 million weapons trained on them! The second amendment is ALL about the population keeping a trump card against any government who seeks oppression and control and all stems from British colonial rule! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catweazle Posted January 17, 2013 Report Share Posted January 17, 2013 Err... that's actually a myth. And a contrived one at that. This is just one of a number of factual corrections offered by FACT CHECK.ORG on the lie that "Obama's coming for our guns!" when in fact, he isn't - in fact, Obama has been a far more gun-friendly legislator (as both Senator and President) than George W Bush ever was. Hey, whaddya know, Obama is acting against gun owners after all. Who would have guessed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lock Stock & Barrel Posted January 17, 2013 Report Share Posted January 17, 2013 (edited) Hey, whaddya know, Obama is acting against gun owners after all. Who would have guessed. Yeah, in a kinda completely arbitrary way, right - coz the recent Sandy Hook school massacre and the the two school shootings which have happened since then had nothing to do with Obama's thinking, right? How many school, shopping mall, university, place-of-work mass killings is enough before someone with sense says, "enough is enough"? :blink: It takes a real clown to be as selective in their amnesia as you mate. Good luck with that. Edited January 17, 2013 by Lock Stock & Barrel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steppenwolf Posted January 17, 2013 Report Share Posted January 17, 2013 Nevermind Obama, look at what Cuomo is doing in New York, his speech reminded me of that famous Adolf HItler speech. Scary! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lock Stock & Barrel Posted January 17, 2013 Report Share Posted January 17, 2013 Nevermind Obama, look at what Cuomo is doing in New York, his speech reminded me of that famous Adolf HItler speech. Scary! Err... yeah, that old "Hitler tried to ban guns" myth, again... sorry mate, but that was debunked long ago too. Don't any of you guys check your sources before making wild claims? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vince Green Posted January 17, 2013 Report Share Posted January 17, 2013 There are roughly 30,000 gun deaths a year in America, of those over 20,000 are accidents. Thats why they need tighter laws, its not about crime or self defence, its about leaving loaded guns around where kids can find them. Thats nothing to do with political rights its just neglegence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paxtond Posted January 17, 2013 Report Share Posted January 17, 2013 Like I said before most Americans support the tighter background checks, it's the registration that they don't like, also the fact the AWB limits cosmetics and not the function of a riffle. How it a semi auto hunting riffle any more of a risk than a Ar-15. The American shooting community are not a spineless "I'm alright jack" kind of group so I doubt this will get through Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steppenwolf Posted January 17, 2013 Report Share Posted January 17, 2013 Err... yeah, that old "Hitler tried to ban guns" myth, again... sorry mate, but that was debunked long ago too. Don't any of you guys check your sources before making wild claims? Yeah he didn't ban guns he only took them from political opponents and jews. That is so much better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steppenwolf Posted January 17, 2013 Report Share Posted January 17, 2013 There are roughly 30,000 gun deaths a year in America, of those over 20,000 are accidents. Thats why they need tighter laws, its not about crime or self defence, its about leaving loaded guns around where kids can find them. Thats nothing to do with political rights its just neglegence. That is actually incorrect. There were about 35000 total deaths last year in USA out of those 8700 gun deaths, 260 justifiable homicide by gun owner, 420 justifiable homicide by police. 69 % suicides, leaves you with about 2058 gun deaths, of those 74% are gang related so again left with about 600 gun deaths although much higher than UK not a statistically big number considering the US population and its status as the number 1 most heaviliy armed country in the world. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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