Interesting miss

[cockercas]

front on with the 243 should leave a dead fox with a clipped jaw type shot

Had a shot do this to. Last summer with a pw member present.

Fox was still alive but unable to move.

Again 58gr vmax

[al4x]

front on with the 243 should leave a dead fox with a clipped jaw type shot

 

you may remember 6 or 7 years ago i had a strange shot, first thing in the morning sitting watching a pen and took the shot at about 90 yards iirc, managed to hit the pig netting, the fox was about two foot behind, i was amazed the fragments didn't drop him (.223) after some time he came back around to sniff where he had been stood so dropped him

 

I have to say I'd whistled it to stop it and it was facing me entirely so I don't think it could be jaw, its very rare I go for head shots and the only one I can remember with any life left was like cockercass enough trauma to the spinal cord to immobilise it and the dog sorted it out fast. That was one in a thistle patch just peeking out and thinking it was hidden. The hair in this case was also all long and proper ginger so it will remain a bit of a mystery I've only seen one drop and then jump up and run as though unhit before and that was years ago when a mate was shooting. Without the snow in daylight you just don't see the evidence to start piecing whats occurred together. Anyway had another last night after checking zero they are everywhere here at the moment.

[jam1e]

I will leave the rectum business to your good self as you are quite obviously well qualified, no wonder, you do plenty of talking out of yours. Did you say that you had your DSC1, they cover obsticles infront of the target and you should have been tested on that. You may condone your actions but its just shoddy practice, if you were on any of my ground you would be feeling the blunt end of a boot up your specialised topic.

 

Just stumbled across this topic.

Talk about p*** my pants!

Now what was it you posted on one of my threads the other week al4x. When you were looking down on me from aaaall the way up there..... Oh yes, i recall now.

 

Posted 18 January 2013 - 07:06 PM

"Indeed shame I've got to go out and attempt to shoot some foxes as this thread and the other have some mileage"

 

Speaks volumes. Enough said...............

[Paul223]

Just stumbled across this topic.

Talk about p*** my pants!

Now what was it you posted on one of my threads the other week al4x. When you were looking down on me from aaaall the way up there..... Oh yes, i recall now.

 

Posted 18 January 2013 - 07:06 PM

"Indeed shame I've got to go out and attempt to shoot some foxes as this thread and the other have some mileage"

 

Speaks volumes. Enough said...............

 

lol, you shoot enough you miss, simples ..............one of these days if you manage not to blow your rifle up, well you may just find that out

[al4x]

That's about it Paul in this case I have no issue with a miss its just the rest that made it of interest. I think I've missed 3 in the last year but that kill ratio isn't bad in my eyes

[kent]

Its not a miss if the fox dropped and hair was evident. Though yeah it happens, its actually quite hard to get a total clean miss on quarry the size of a fox upwards. Its like head shooting deer I am fed up of hearing its dead or a clean miss- it just aint true

[sako751sg]

Someones got PMT this week fella.I hope their husbands safe.

Theres always the odd shot that leaves you wondering what has happened to the pill,and i believe a lot of times look between the barrel and the target,although at times the route the pill takes when entering the target takes a bit of believing.Stayed up all night with Mac on Thursday at the foxes,and took a shot at one at around 60 yards with the .17hmr,and clean missed.Mac recorded it on the Pulsar and we couldnt understand how it missed,but found in the morning id hit a stalk of old ragwart that was inbetween and obviously fluffed it.

[Redgum]

Someones got PMT this week fella.I hope their husbands safe.

Theres always the odd shot that leaves you wondering what has happened to the pill,and i believe a lot of times look between the barrel and the target,although at times the route the pill takes when entering the target takes a bit of believing.Stayed up all night with Mac on Thursday at the foxes,and took a shot at one at around 60 yards with the .17hmr,and clean missed.Mac recorded it on the Pulsar and we couldnt understand how it missed,but found in the morning id hit a stalk of old ragwart that was inbetween and obviously fluffed it.

[Redgum]

Someones got PMT this week fella.I hope their husbands safe.

Theres always the odd shot that leaves you wondering what has happened to the pill,and i believe a lot of times look between the barrel and the target,although at times the route the pill takes when entering the target takes a bit of believing.Stayed up all night with Mac on Thursday at the foxes,and took a shot at one at around 60 yards with the .17hmr,and clean missed.Mac recorded it on the Pulsar and we couldnt understand how it missed,but found in the morning id hit a stalk of old ragwart that was inbetween and obviously fluffed it.

 

Dont know what happened to that previous quote, must have just clean missed the keyboard. This will probably set the battle going again but if you take on board the opinions of others without feeling personally insulted then we could possibly keep this post going in a civil manner. If you watched the fieldsport channel issue a while back were George Digweed goes lamping on stubble you may understand my arguement about hmrs and fox's. I would say George is a man of great skill and experience, because of the likely hood of an unseen obstacle ie a piece of stubble while lamping a fox he chooses a 100gr 243 rnd. The height of a fox and its environment will put small obsticles, often hard to see or just missed in the short time you have to shoot, between you and the target. Use the corrrect calibre and bullet weight for the situation, or what may come along in that situation then job done, unless you have a clear miss.On this occasion it was not a clear miss, it was a hit resulting in an animal that was lost. In the big scheme of things the world probably will not be rocked by this fact but it all boils down to the hunters conscience and how he hunts.

[cockercas]

100gr .243 is a poor fox bullet.

Only shot a handfull with them.

Passes thru the fox with not much expansion.

Foxes are fragile.

[pestcontrol1]

you have probly pulled the shot and ran the bullet either down the side or back taking the hair out as the bullet passed through it with minimul fragmentation

[Redgum]

100gr .243 is a poor fox bullet.

Only shot a handfull with them.

Passes thru the fox with not much expansion.

Foxes are fragile.

Your sort of missing the point, its not an ideal bullet for fox but in the situation it was the right bullet. Lets just say the original posters shot was true and it hit a piece of white tape against a snowy background ? If he had been using a 85gr softnose bullet it wouldnt have happened. Of course this is theory and in practice we can't run around with a pocket full of differant heads like arrows from a quiver selecting the correct projectile for each situation. Al4x's situation was just unforturnate but I had an axe to grind with him and my comments on the hmr wind him up. A hmr, same as .22lr, will kill fox's dead in the right hands and right circumstance but most of the time, especially at night when its not easy to see small obsticles in front of the target its not the right tool and this is the general situation. Lot of first time hmr owners seem to think that because the rnd has a neck and looks like a mini centrefire it has armour pearcing capabilities. I'm starting to wonder if many of the self confessed 'experienced' foxer's on this forum understand much about ballistics.

[cockercas]

George is a man of great skill and experience, because of the likely hood of an unseen obstacle ie a piece of stubble while lamping a fox he chooses a 100gr 243 rnd.

 

Use the corrrect calibre and bullet weight for the situation

 

 

 

But a .243 isnt a 100gr gun

And 100gr bullet isnt a good bullet for foxes

Mabey it would of killed this fox but what about the others he has shot? He would have alot running before dying with 100gr

Foxes are fragile

I use 58gr out of a .243

Edited January 26, 2013 by cockercas

[kent]

A .243" is a perfectly good 100 grn gun. Good ones will put std 100grn hunting bullets through the same hole! I think this comes from H type bullets (partition type) they are not intended to be super accurate just good on outsize quarry. The fact is they are a little unstable (this is not the case with 100 grn pro-hunters etc).

George might be a heck of a shot gunner but if this is true he knows little of bullet performance. I have seen a big 6.5 deer bullet deflect on -route and kill a fallow with a perfect high neck shot - it was aimed at the heart though at about 50yds. I personally removed the entire rear leg (actually vapourising it into teeny, tiny bits, no trace of the leg could be found) it was aimed for the atlas joint on a fox sat facing directly away at a range of maybe 40yds I shot it with a 100 grn deer bullet - it hit a weed on its way in! The blood trial was very easy to follow and within seconds it got the finishing shot! Now I shot it from a long pod back against a tree while waiting for roe on a clearing. The fox had just been curled up sleeping in the sun unseen till it awoke and sat up bold upright- Like has been mentioned it happens.

 

I will say though the best bullets for fox in the 6mm tend to be around 70 grns, 55-58's for crow and high stock level fields- maybe were wind is mostly very light. 95 or 100 grn for deer. I have yet to test 87 grn 6mm v-max but have tried just about everything else

Edited January 26, 2013 by kent

[al4x]

George's situation was interesting and we had the same issue, when cutting rape the higher you cut it the faster the combine can go so some do cut it at a height that makes foxing hard. Really there isn't a good bullet to use as rape stems are pretty nasty you have to try your hardest to avoid trying to shoot through them. Personally foxing bullets in 6mm I prefer 75grn vmax though I did use some 85grn sierra soft points for a while and they also worked very well, damage largely depends where you put them and at what range, for foxing there is little need to go heavier

[kent]

Al4x said "for foxing there is little need to go heavier" in deed to go heavier with a .6mm is detrimental - the deer bullets are too hard and pencil. The most weighty I have found that was reliable on fox is the 95 grn Nosler b/tip, an excellent Roe bullet. You get quick fragmentation but without the splash wounds varmint bullets can and do create. 75 v-max was a firm favourite with me but just haven't found any in some time now. I have been converted to 70 grn Noslers

[colin lad]

I had an interesting one this morning on a fox that due to the snow and a few things left me wondering what happened. I took a shot on a fox and it dropped and a few seconds later jumped up, range was simple 100 yards decent rest etc. Missing isn't the real issue the evidence at the site showed in the snow where it had dropped and behind it hair spread for a good 12 feet loads of it, the second thing was due to it being in front of a post and rail fence I also know the bullet had fragmented and pieces were embedded and some had gone through with an approx 4"spread now this bit has me confused, surely fox hair wouldn't cause a relatively slow 75grn vmav to break up. I'm wondering if I clipped something on the way to it but its really strange, the one thing there wasn't was any blood at all. Verging on quite annoying as I had a 250 yarder the night before which typically wasn't after my mothers chickens like this one!

 

stick to 30 yards mate they dont get up at that range as you well know hehe

 

colin

[Sako7mm]

If you shoot enough, you'll have an occasional strange occurrence due to a bad cartridge, pulled shot or something.

It happens and happened to me last week.

A broadside fox at only about 80 yards dropped to a well supported shot from a centrefire rifle at it's chest then 5 minutes later got up and ran apparently uninjured. I followed it's tracks in the snow for as far as I could and spent over an hour on foot checking the surrounding fields to no avail. There were just 3 tiny specks of blood in the snow left just after it got up, then nothing but tracks.

Last night, on the same field, I killed a fox with a well on the way to healing up graze on a front leg. I am sure that was the same animal.

The rifle shot crows out to 200 yards the same day as it wounded the fox and when checked the following day was bang on, shooting sub inch groups at 100 yards.

When fox pelts fetched good money, a keeper I knew shot a fox which dropped in the snow at his shot. Walking to it, he found it alive and killed it with his stick. Skinned, the only injury was a superficial graze to the top of a paw. Animals do strange things sometimes.

**** happens.

[kent]

If you shoot enough, you'll have an occasional strange occurrence due to a bad cartridge, pulled shot or something.

It happens and happened to me last week.

A broadside fox at only about 80 yards dropped to a well supported shot from a centrefire rifle at it's chest then 5 minutes later got up and ran apparently uninjured. I followed it's tracks in the snow for as far as I could and spent over an hour on foot checking the surrounding fields to no avail. There were just 3 tiny specks of blood in the snow left just after it got up, then nothing but tracks.

Last night, on the same field, I killed a fox with a well on the way to healing up graze on a front leg. I am sure that was the same animal.

The rifle shot crows out to 200 yards the same day as it wounded the fox and when checked the following day was bang on, shooting sub inch groups at 100 yards.

When fox pelts fetched good money, a keeper I knew shot a fox which dropped in the snow at his shot. Walking to it, he found it alive and killed it with his stick. Skinned, the only injury was a superficial graze to the top of a paw. Animals do strange things sometimes.

**** happens.

Dropping immediate to the shot, then getting up and bolting after minutes rather than seconds usually means the spine was clipped but not destroyed. Not always just usually, its common when the shooter holds high thinking the target is further away than it actually is. Getting up after seconds on the ground is a sign of a round pencilling, often the back of the lungs- bleed out or the lungs filling with blood will often take a fair time! little blood if any will be found as the small leak hole is mostly higher than the pooling and can effectively close up with clotting and collapse of the hole. Animals are far tougher than humans and I have photos of deer lungs with healed up broad head scars - through the back of the lungs! the arrow having passed clean through. I know this sounds hard to believe but thousands of years of real natural selection puts our prey in a different league.

[Bewsher500]

glad the handbagging has stopped.

 

the energy transfer from even a fur cutter shot is enough to drop a fox in its tracks.

especially anywhere shoulder and above with the nervous system around the neck and head (say what you like about hydrostatic shock, but if you slap a water filled vessel hard enough you will induce shock)

 

I dont buy the spine or pencilling lung shot

75gr Vmax dont pencil, and even a slight clip of the spine or the flesh around it would destroy enough and impart enough shock to drop and never get up

 

I have had front on skull shots zing off the head leaving fur and fox with a severe head ache, same symptoms as you describe when hit

for arguements sake If you are zeroed for 200 and shot a high bib shot at 90 its possible with a bit off drift the hit low neck, not much meat there and plenty of fur. It would certainly drop it in its tracks like a karate chop to the neck.

 

As for 100gr SP rounds on foxes. Depends entirely on the bullet quality and placement, never had a pencil wound with 100gr .243 Interlocks or 130gr .270 interlocks. even a small fox presents enough mass for a decent quality SP to expand if it is hit centre mass rather than neck.

130gr inters decapitate on head shots! not pleasant

Edited January 27, 2013 by Bewsher500

[Redgum]

Bullets rely on hydrostatic effect to work,we should all know that, ever wondered why a .17hmr bullet will pass straight through a 2inch piece of timber yet blow a big hole in a rabbit, maybe this could explain why some problems occur when shooting foxs, the bullet hits a non fleshy piece of fox and goes straight through.As said, hit mass and the bullet does its job.

[Bazooka Joe]

the evidence at the site showed in the snow where it had dropped and behind it hair spread for a good 12 feet loads of it,

 

I would have been back the next morning with the dog to track it down, did you not return to find out.?

 

The Fox could have been a 100yds away, dead, lying in a ditch.

[henry d]

glad the handbagging has stopped.

Me too, group hug?

 

If you had used a decent calibre such as a triple then the story would be a non event. Poop happens mate, had a doe drop to a head shot (cull doe in heavy woodland lying down at 60yds for those who want to know) and the only mark on her was a light graze to her skull between her lugs, stone dead, not a twitch.

 

Don`t beat yourself up on a single shot, how many times have you seen an odd shot from paper punching?

[kent]

glad the handbagging has stopped.

 

the energy transfer from even a fur cutter shot is enough to drop a fox in its tracks.

especially anywhere shoulder and above with the nervous system around the neck and head (say what you like about hydrostatic shock, but if you slap a water filled vessel hard enough you will induce shock)

 

I dont buy the spine or pencilling lung shot

75gr Vmax dont pencil, and even a slight clip of the spine or the flesh around it would destroy enough and impart enough shock to drop and never get up

 

I have had front on skull shots zing off the head leaving fur and fox with a severe head ache, same symptoms as you describe when hit

for arguements sake If you are zeroed for 200 and shot a high bib shot at 90 its possible with a bit off drift the hit low neck, not much meat there and plenty of fur. It would certainly drop it in its tracks like a karate chop to the neck.

 

As for 100gr SP rounds on foxes. Depends entirely on the bullet quality and placement, never had a pencil wound with 100gr .243 Interlocks or 130gr .270 interlocks. even a small fox presents enough mass for a decent quality SP to expand if it is hit centre mass rather than neck.

130gr inters decapitate on head shots! not pleasant

 

I haven't had a v-max pencil either but it can happen bullet performance can never be 100%. Its common to get 100 grn deer bullets pencilling though, most well experienced stalkers used to the foibles of the .243" have experienced this many times on fox. The very idea of tougher bullets is slower less dramatic expansion. Simply put if they fragment inside the narrow chest of a fox at a couple of inches to any great extent they are unlikely to get through the shoulder of a big stag very effectively.

[al4x]

 

I would have been back the next morning with the dog to track it down, did you not return to find out.?

 

The Fox could have been a 100yds away, dead, lying in a ditch.

 

First thing I did but it was straight into a neighbours garden, well I say garden woodland and a few acres. Checked the woodland the other side though but could have dropped in their bramble.