Muddy Funker Posted January 25, 2013 Report Share Posted January 25, 2013 Right, I'm in the middle of a nightmare. A few weeks ago a coolant pipe split on my car and due to circumstances I couldn't stop before it overheated. A lifelong friend is an ex Peugeot mechanic (hooray some might say) and I'm ex Nissan, The coolant expansion bottle was full of black mayonnaise so logically thinking I steered the diagnosis towards head gasket and he seemed to agree although it wasn't something he'd seen on this engine before. We did the work and ran the vehicle up and everything seemed okay apart from trying to clean all this gunk out of the cooling system which was proving to be a right mission. Due to having to wait on a couple of small parts he's since gone and today is the first time I've driven the vehicle (literally less than a mile) there seemed to be more gunk than ever in the expansion bottle after I got back to the house so I had a thought and dipped the oil, it was pretty much empty,,,,,,,,, ****! So basically it's dumped all the oil back into the cooling system. This nearly reduced me to tears! Still with me? Thanks for your time :-) Now,,,,, this is the problem. I don't expect something for nothing and my mate normally cleans windows at £150 per day. The parts list even at trade price was ridiculous and he asked for £350 as it was a few days including head skim ect to do. I was expecting a little less but the fact is we're all grown ups now and he has kids and mortgage to pay for, so I was kind of happy with that. He's aware and is gutted and we're putting out heads together trying to figure out what the fault is. Another spanner to the plan is another mate more local who I've only known a couple of years is offering to pull it apart for free. I know I'm going to have to grow a pair and speak with my mate in regards to the money owed but I just don't know how to approach it? Firstly I was wondering if anyone has experienced this fault before on this engine and what might the problem be? It's the 1.4 HDI from 2006 and I believe this is used on lots of different cars, ford, citroen peugeot. Secondly I do understand cars and don't want to get into a pull it apart change something put it together situation only to find it's still the same. After looking on the bay I'm leaning towards just swapping out the engine with a scrap vehicle. Thirdly what would you say to your mate of 25 years? We haven't spoken about the money side of things yet but would you pay full amount/something for his efforts/nothing? He did travel backwards forwards, sorted out parts, took head away for skim ect,,,, Told you this was a mare lol!!! My thinking is just write off the engine as there's possibly and internal crack in an oil way/water jacket that will never be diagnosed, I do want to keep the car as It's only done 60,000 and to replace it will cost thousands not the few hundred that an engine will be. This is my longest post ever but I actually feel better about the situation now I've written it down, I'm not going to lose a lifelong mate for the sake of a few hundred sheets. Thoughts and opinions if you will. PS, anyone want a 206 1.4 HDI. Good little runner for a fair price Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted January 25, 2013 Report Share Posted January 25, 2013 Only thoughts I'd have are has it got an oil cooler on it but that's a lot of oil to loose that fast Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martyn2233 Posted January 25, 2013 Report Share Posted January 25, 2013 Me pay the money it's fair I've been there myself just with less money in my pocket at the end Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluebarrels Posted January 25, 2013 Report Share Posted January 25, 2013 (edited) 5 litres of fuel and a match and if you get caught,say you was melting the snow joking aside, good luck with getting it sorted BB Edited January 25, 2013 by Bluebarrels Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSS Posted January 25, 2013 Report Share Posted January 25, 2013 (edited) Are the barrels wet lined? Could it be oil cooler? Crack in the head? Do a pressure test and see the results. Best of luck with the money situation All the best, SSS Edited January 25, 2013 by SSS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaun4860 Posted January 25, 2013 Report Share Posted January 25, 2013 If it was me, pay the money and write it off to experience, however I wouldnt have expected a lifelong friend to charge me £350, was that just for labour or for everything eg: parts and skimming? then scrap engine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muddy Funker Posted January 25, 2013 Author Report Share Posted January 25, 2013 (edited) Only thoughts I'd have are has it got an oil cooler on it but that's a lot of oil to loose that fast The housing the oil filter (paper type) screws onto has fins so it's not water cooled as far as I can see. Are the barrels wet lined? Could it be oil cooler? Crack in the head? Do a pressure test and see the results. Best of luck with the money situation All the best, SSS Not sure with regards to wet lined barrels? Have considered the other options but I can't face going through the strip down and diagnosing route again. If it was me, pay the money and write it off to experience, however I wouldnt have expected a lifelong friend to charge me £350, was that just for labour or for everything eg: parts and skimming? then scrap engine Me neither, however I do understand he has bills to pay ( a lot of them!) That price was for labour alone, but to be fair it's not a five minute job, plus he had all the travelling around with the head and picking up parts ect, and he isn't round the corner. I dare say the figure would have been a hell of a lot more if I went to some random or a main dealer. But the problem isn't fixed so I'm gonna offer a couple of hundred as I did partially diagnose the fault which turned out to be wrong. If he wasn't a mate I'd be like, what the **** fella? Fix my car! Edit: I think I've answered my own question with regards to the fix, sacrifice engine and get one off the bay. That's a risk in itself but less of a risk than pulling apart the existing one and hoping/expecting to see what the problem is. Aside from all the mess and expense that will cause!! The mate and money situation I'll have to sleep on Edited January 25, 2013 by Muddy Funker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barney 66 Posted January 26, 2013 Report Share Posted January 26, 2013 I would agree with the comment earlier probably liners if it has them,looks like a complete strip, probably worth it if its low miles Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beerdeor Posted January 26, 2013 Report Share Posted January 26, 2013 IIRC there is an oil cooler on the oil filter housing.....do you have acsess to a coolant pressure tester atb Jim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philm Posted January 26, 2013 Report Share Posted January 26, 2013 Wrong head gasket!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rupert Posted January 26, 2013 Report Share Posted January 26, 2013 He has charged you to swap the head gasket and as long as that part is now fine i think you should pay the lad,diagnosis is a dark art muddied by knowledge,experience and a wether eye on costs.Generally with this kind of thing you start at the most obvious, and proceed from there. If he has got the wrong gasket,or made some other error then these seem to be the only grounds for non or reduced payment,if you feel the amount is excessive then perhaps you should have had the cost disscussion before you got the spanners out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tweedledee Posted January 26, 2013 Report Share Posted January 26, 2013 Unless somethin obvious was ignored id say live and learn.depends how much you value the friendship? If it was me id pay and walk on .life is too short and you need all the friends you can get Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
washerboy Posted January 26, 2013 Report Share Posted January 26, 2013 OUCH...hate cars, there like children i scrapped mine because the back axle, went common problem with the 206 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mickh Posted January 26, 2013 Report Share Posted January 26, 2013 Cheaper option. Find the same or similar model in scrap yard and take the oil cooler off it and fit it to yours. The amount of head gaskets i have seen changed for this fault are many. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swampy Posted January 26, 2013 Report Share Posted January 26, 2013 (edited) i had citroen xantia with same problem. after some advise from local mechanic went to scrap yard bought secound hand oil cooler job done, did take 6 days to wash out all the oil from water bottle hope this helps ps oil cooler only cost me £10 Edited January 26, 2013 by swampy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muddy Funker Posted January 26, 2013 Author Report Share Posted January 26, 2013 Thanks everyone for your answers they really are appreciated!! Cheaper option. Find the same or similar model in scrap yard and take the oil cooler off it and fit it to yours. The amount of head gaskets i have seen changed for this fault are many. This answer has really pricked my ears because this is something else i've heard mentioned, unfortunately after the head gasket job. Can I ask, do you know why this happens as in what is the actual failure of the oil cooler? This is a major buggerance but the fact you say you've seen this many times helps me feel a little less like a dumb***, everything was pointing to it being the head. Can overheating cause the oil cooler to fail as that was the reason we went straight for the head, the fact it overheated. Thanks for your time. i had citroen xantia with same problem. after some advise from local mechanic went to scrap yard bought secound hand oil cooler job done, did take 6 days to wash out all the oil from water bottle hope this helps ps oil cooler only cost me £10 Thank you, we could be getting to the bottom of this haha!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rupert Posted January 26, 2013 Report Share Posted January 26, 2013 Thanks everyone for your answers they really are appreciated!! This answer has really pricked my ears because this is something else i've heard mentioned, unfortunately after the head gasket job. Can I ask, do you know why this happens as in what is the actual failure of the oil cooler? Oil cooler is cooled by the cooling system,it is this way on my car. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neil w Posted January 26, 2013 Report Share Posted January 26, 2013 i had citroen xantia with same problem. after some advise from local mechanic went to scrap yard bought secound hand oil cooler job done, did take 6 days to wash out all the oil from water bottle hope this helps ps oil cooler only cost me £10 put a dish washer tablet in the cooling system run the engine up to temperature , drain remove header tank flush out . repeat process done well under an hour Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muddy Funker Posted January 26, 2013 Author Report Share Posted January 26, 2013 Oil cooler is cooled by the cooling system,it is this way on my car. I understand that, what I'm curious about is what has actually happened to the cooler to allow it to dump all and I mean all the oil into the coolant? Does it crack internally or something? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rupert Posted January 26, 2013 Report Share Posted January 26, 2013 I would suspect some internal failure. High volumes of high pressure oil and the water is pumped away taking oil with it. Oil cooler is just my theory Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crashking Posted January 26, 2013 Report Share Posted January 26, 2013 what type of injectors has the engine got? as its HDl i would say it has oil seals somewhere in the mix also the copper sealing washers give this problem at the bottom of the injectors. The best thing to use to remove engine oil from a cooling system is a dishwasher tablet. and run the engine to operating temp drain and flush with clean water. Thats what we use on Cat earthmovers and some of them cost in excess of £100,000 for an engine if its good enough for fine crystal glass its good enough for an engine. Hope this helps. if you need any more info drop me a mail. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Mongrel- Posted January 26, 2013 Report Share Posted January 26, 2013 He has charged you to swap the head gasket and as long as that part is now fine i think you should pay the lad,diagnosis is a dark art muddied by knowledge,experience and a weather eye on costs. Agreed, particulary when you have effectively told him that it was blown HG that needed doing. You also, I assume, agreed to the price before he did all the work? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Livefast123 Posted January 26, 2013 Report Share Posted January 26, 2013 (edited) Personally I would be going down the oil cooler route before going Rambo on the engine. I've not got personal experience with that engine but I have seen numerous faults like this where the oil cooler goes and leaks oil into the coolant although you have lost a hell of a lot of oil. Most of the coolers are sealed by O rings which have a habit of perishing and letting go which could have been caused with the increased pressures when your car overheated. Pick one up s/h and try that first. If not then I would suspect a warped / cracked head or a cheap / faulty / wrong headgasket, I guess that it won't cost anything to strip the head so you may as well have a look so at least the can discount the latter. Was the person who did the skim reputable? He did torque the headbolts, didn't he Edited January 26, 2013 by Livefast123 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mickh Posted January 27, 2013 Report Share Posted January 27, 2013 Thanks everyone for your answers they really are appreciated!! This answer has really pricked my ears because this is something else i've heard mentioned, unfortunately after the head gasket job. Can I ask, do you know why this happens as in what is the actual failure of the oil cooler? This is a major buggerance but the fact you say you've seen this many times helps me feel a little less like a dumb***, everything was pointing to it being the head. Can overheating cause the oil cooler to fail as that was the reason we went straight for the head, the fact it overheated. Thanks for your time. Thank you, we could be getting to the bottom of this haha!!! When the internal seal fails because oil pressure can be upto five bar and water pressure only one bar when the engine is warm oil passes into the water galleries. An engine flush from the likes of halfords in the cooling system should clean out any oil residue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted January 27, 2013 Report Share Posted January 27, 2013 Yes they crack internally always used to be a regular issue on older peugeots and it suggests nothing has changed. Out of interest did you see the old head gasket a failure should be fairly obvious Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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