moeggesit Posted November 13, 2006 Report Share Posted November 13, 2006 I notice that a lot of people refuses to pay for shooting and gets upset when other people do pay for shooting. I've moved to England from South Africa about five years ago, where believe it or not we do pay for shooting, which in turn encourages people (read land owners) to better manage game and land for shooting. I do not agree with people asking silly money for shooting but everyone needs to make money from their businesses and that includes farmers! If they set land aside especially for shooting then they could have used that land better for farming after all. Also do you ever take beginners with you shooting or do you believe that the sport will survive without any encouragement from ourselves? Do you see people new to the sport as competition that should be eliminated (read discouraged)? Regards ps. I've been unable to get shooting for myself so far and have received no help so far from people alredy in the sport who believes, in my opinion, that it would mean less shoothing for themselves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Millomite Posted November 13, 2006 Report Share Posted November 13, 2006 I would pay for shooting, although it would largely depends on how much land, how much game and how much freedom I was allowed over the land. As well as these factors, the amount of money involved would be a major factor. You do not say what sort of shooting you require. My advice would be to contact farmers, either by letter or in person (lots of topics on how to do this on the forum). I would also try to get involved with beating. You get a lot people with countryside interests in one place who you can get to know. Once you build up a relationship with these people you will find that you may get the odd invite etc Joining NOBs would be a good idea if you are new to beating Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AVB Posted November 13, 2006 Report Share Posted November 13, 2006 I pay for all of my shooting for the following simple reasons: 1) I am a relative novice and appreciate the advice that a guide gives you 2) I do not have the time to go around gaining shooting rights of my own. I wish I did have but I don't 3) I have the benefit of being able to afford to. Therefore as paying for it enables me to shoot then I do. If all or any of the above did not apply then I probably wouldn't pay (as I wouldn't have to). AVB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocksaplenty Posted November 13, 2006 Report Share Posted November 13, 2006 I pay for the vermin rights on a local farm. The farmer is a good mate. He knows that he can get a syndicate to lease his land for more than I pay and I know that the syndicate wouldn't control his vermin - so we are both happy!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markbivvy Posted November 13, 2006 Report Share Posted November 13, 2006 I notice that a lot of people refuses to pay for shooting and gets upset when other people do pay for shooting. I've moved to England from South Africa about five years ago, where believe it or not we do pay for shooting, which in turn encourages people (read land owners) to better manage game and land for shooting. I do not agree with people asking silly money for shooting but everyone needs to make money from their businesses and that includes farmers! If they set land aside especially for shooting then they could have used that land better for farming after all. Also do you ever take beginners with you shooting or do you believe that the sport will survive without any encouragement from ourselves? Do you see people new to the sport as competition that should be eliminated (read discouraged)? Regards ps. I've been unable to get shooting for myself so far and have received no help so far from people alredy in the sport who believes, in my opinion, that it would mean less shoothing for themselves. plenty to be had for free, if you look hard enough. i have taken a good few people out shooting, but looking at your profile i would not think of asking you as i know nothing about you . and maybe ask my self could you be trusted not to try and buy any off my shooting places. by all means pay for it. but where does it end then. rich mans sport. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mossy835 Posted November 13, 2006 Report Share Posted November 13, 2006 i shoot 18 farms i can shoot duck, phesants any thing i like the farmers dont mined, thats why i voted no.iv had most of the farms for 13 years and more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mag-man Posted November 13, 2006 Report Share Posted November 13, 2006 I got enough land to suit me, but problem is is all rape and wheat, and no birds are on it. Last monday though when I was at UK Shootwarehouse, I met Will Beasley, and shot through his business on saturday. I opted for the sort yourself route, and it cost me £40, which I could afford. I will pay for it again in a heartbeat if I aint having anyluck with the pigeons on my permissions Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poacher Posted November 13, 2006 Report Share Posted November 13, 2006 I would never pay for vermin, as its pest control and your doing the farmer a favour...If people start paying then as markbivvy said it becomes richmans sport and only gives the antis more fuel If it was a driven day or a walked up shoot with good potential then yeah i'd pay, In general if i'm paying then it has to be for a reason i.e good prospects or effort people have put into organising it. I'm not going to pay to do someone a favour ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mossy835 Posted November 13, 2006 Report Share Posted November 13, 2006 I would never pay for vermin, as its pest control and your doing the farmer a favour...If people start paying then as markbivvy said it becomes richmans sport and only gives the antis more fuel If it was a driven day or a walked up shoot with good potential then yeah i'd pay, In general if i'm paying then it has to be for a reason i.e good prospects or effort people have put into organising it. I'm not going to pay to do someone a favour ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luckytrigger Posted November 13, 2006 Report Share Posted November 13, 2006 I would never pay for shooting.. I shoot for a couple of local farmers providing free vermin control at first with my airrifle.3 months down the line and the farmer offered to assist me in aquiring my fac..Bingo! The rest is history. All it took was a bit of shoe leather over a couple of sunday afternoons.End result 1000+ acres. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magman Posted November 13, 2006 Report Share Posted November 13, 2006 I would never pay for vermin, as its pest control and your doing the farmer a favour...If people start paying then as markbivvy said it becomes richmans sport and only gives the antis more fuel If it was a driven day or a walked up shoot with good potential then yeah i'd pay, In general if i'm paying then it has to be for a reason i.e good prospects or effort people have put into organising it. I'm not going to pay to do someone a favour ! oh and if there are any pheasant,s on your shoot don't feed them up just shoot the thing,s out ? on one shoot i had i fed them for two years without shooting them only to be told there's a few pheasant,s about now got a syndicate after the right,s would you like to pay me to shoot the pheasant,s you have been feeding for the last two years . no was my answer and shot approx 50 birds in 2 week,s . not much left for the syndicate but who give,s a toss Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
new to the flock Posted November 13, 2006 Report Share Posted November 13, 2006 I would never pay for vermin, as its pest control and your doing the farmer a favour...If people start paying then as markbivvy said it becomes richmans sport and only gives the antis more fuel If it was a driven day or a walked up shoot with good potential then yeah i'd pay, In general if i'm paying then it has to be for a reason i.e good prospects or effort people have put into organising it. I'm not going to pay to do someone a favour ! Mossy835 and Poacher, You have both stated that you would not pay for vermin and that you are doing the farmer a favour. Have you ever stopped to think that maybe the farmer is doing both of you a favour as well. Is he not letting you enjoy your sport on the property that HE owns. Are you not getting out doing something that you enjoy using someone elses land. Me thinks that you might be doing each other a favour. I also know that shooters that come onto our farms and ask permission do not last long with the I am doing you a favour by being here attitude. I can quite happily control the "vermin" on our properties, but I am also quiet happy to share some of it if it is with someone having trouble getting land, or who has limited resources. Now I do not look for monitary gain from this, but those that stop in and give my Dad a hand when I am not around, or stop at the end of the day letting us know what is going on, or come out and clean up a blown down tree, will get an invite back while those that take it for granted never step foot on the property again. Remember it is a two way street and there are a lot more cars in the looking for land lane than the I own land lane. NTTF Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moeggesit Posted November 13, 2006 Author Report Share Posted November 13, 2006 plenty to be had for free, if you look hard enough. i have taken a good few people out shooting, but looking at your profile i would not think of asking you as i know nothing about you . and maybe ask my self could you be trusted not to try and buy any off my shooting places. by all means pay for it. but where does it end then. rich mans sport. You may have misunderstood some of what I said, I do not pay for shooting unless necessary and I would be very surprised indeed if anyone invites just anyone off any forum just by looking at their profile. It does not matter what you put in the profile, you would still know very little (read nothing) of the person. As for 'try and buy any off my shooting places' that falls into the catagory of thieving . It is unetical and such a person should be castrated ( A well aimed kick might serve just as well). Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chippy18 Posted November 13, 2006 Report Share Posted November 13, 2006 I can't see how it becomes a rich mans sport if someone pays a couple of hundred quid to shoot some land. It is not as easy in some areas to just get some land by a bit of shoe leather. I am lucky i have 3 shoots for which i don't pay any fee, but i know people who do pay a couple of hundred for the privilege of the land owner taking a chance and letting a armed stranger walk around their land. What harm does this cause, if someone who enjoys the sport but is unable to get their own land not through want of trying, pays a small fee. Lets face it some of us already spend a fortune on shooting just by the bits and bobs we all buy. If the anti's want to tar us with the 'rich mans sport' we already give them that opportunity. Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markbivvy Posted November 13, 2006 Report Share Posted November 13, 2006 can't see how it becomes a rich mans sport if someone pays a couple of hundred quid to shoot some land. you pay 200 i will pay 400, the next man might pay a grand.easy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poacher Posted November 13, 2006 Report Share Posted November 13, 2006 thanks for your concern NTTF but having lived in the country all my life i've never considered even having that ignorant attitude of 'i'm doing you a favour' you speak of. I control the pests on peoples land out friendship and of a mutual agreement. I regularly fix damaged fences, rescue stuck sheep etc its part of the unwritten rule of living in the country . By controlling pests and hence being on the land i act as a keeper and an extra pair of eyes, which in a 24/7 job is invaluable. I regularly meet the local farmers at the pub and buy them drinks.....port at christmas....etc I won't bother going on you understand.......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markbivvy Posted November 13, 2006 Report Share Posted November 13, 2006 I would be very surprised indeed if anyone invites just anyone off any forum just by looking at their profile. i have, and know others on here who have done the same. As for 'try and buy any off my shooting places' that falls into the catagory of thieving . It is unetical and such a person should be castrated ( A well aimed kick might serve just as well). we agree here mate. It does not matter what you put in the profile, you would still know very little (read nothing) of the person. it does, if iam looking for a shooter to take out, its a start for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
new to the flock Posted November 13, 2006 Report Share Posted November 13, 2006 Poacher, Good to hear. Sorry for the miss understanding, it was just your original post that came across wrong......(to me). And I hope you understand that my post is meant as constuctive critasism from a Farmers point of view. NTTF Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnGalway Posted November 13, 2006 Report Share Posted November 13, 2006 I voted a conditional yes. The only time I'd pay for shooting is like people have said going after phesant, duck etc. I can get them on my own bits of land anyway for free. Since I'm the acting treasurer (god help us) of the local gun club I'll be paying for shooting the clubs birds I'm sure as I'm not the one rearing them and I think that's fair. If I was in a situation where someone had specially set aside land, maintained the habitat for that particular bird/animal, fed them etc. and I had the extra cash then sure that's fair if it's somewhere I want to shoot. As for fox and vermin then no I wouldn't pay for that. I'd rather walk away. I see it as a win win situation. If a landowner is having a particular problem with fox or vermin then I'd happily do my best to sort it out. I see this as a fair transaction. I know there are lots of shooters always looking for more land, and that no one save the Dutch are making more land but still... Shooting, for me, is very expensive, I don't earn a fortune so I'm limited in what I can do. Paying for shooting just isn't viable for me. It is a rich mans sport, the rest of us make do quite happily with what we can afford As for beginners, being honest, I'd need to know them extremely well before showing them where my shooting land is. It's true for Mark, at the end of it all they could be your worse nightmare and you'd have only yourself to blame! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poacher Posted November 13, 2006 Report Share Posted November 13, 2006 NTTF I know you know that i know what we're both thinking without having to say the obvious to the not so obvious thats why i put you understand on the end, you do understand right, right ? "I would be very surprised indeed if anyone invites just anyone off any forum just by looking at their profile." that would be nothing short of a miracle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cranfield Posted November 13, 2006 Report Share Posted November 13, 2006 Most of us don't want to have to pay for vermin shooting and none of us want to lose the permissions we have. However, quite a lot of people belong to vermin shooting clubs, like National Pigeon and Pest Control and pay a subscription, so it goes on. Every few years there is pressure on Farmers to make their land give better returns (Farm Shops, fishing lakes, horse stabling, etc.,), I wonder if they will start charging for pigeon shooting and so far it hasn't happened. There were a few Farmers advertising in the Shooting Mags a few years ago , offering pigeon shooting at between £20 and £60 per gun per day. I remember one was in Surrey and one near Billericay in Essex. A friend went to the one in Essex and said that there was nothing alive on the land, no blackbirds, sparrows, nothing at all. I haven't seen those ads for a long time. I know a lot of people who have met up through these Forums and been shooting together. Check out the reports and pictures , they are there if you look. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dead-Eyed Duck Posted November 13, 2006 Report Share Posted November 13, 2006 I think that the answer may be 'It All Depends'. I lost my then main shoot to a syndicate about 15 years ago - a new farmer came along, who said that I could carry on shooting his farm for £1,000 (that previously cost me nothing) - "Take it or leave it". So I left it. I then joined a small vermin shoot in North Wales for the sum of £2/week on three farms, and then expanded this to another 8 farms in the locality by reputation - all for free. I am sure that I could increase this to more farms, but I do not have the time to do a thorough job, and so don't do it. I also shoot on 3 farms near to where I live - for one I pay £100/year, and for the other two I pay nothing. I pay on the one farm as a means to stop the farmer letting anyone shoot that knocked on the door. He hated saying "No", and paying £100 was a means to an end, and well worth it (to me). Those that have been at the shooting game for a long time know that it is very easy to lose permission - hence the reluctance to let others join them unless they are absolutely trustworthy, and this only comes with time. Too many shoots have been lost by the stupidity of others. One neighbouring farm to me has been lost to all shooters as both farm dogs were poisoned by bait left for foxes. The shooters involved were too bone idle to do fox control the proper way, and were lucky not to have been prosecuted. We all have to guard the shooting rights that we have - I wince when I see some shooters who are prepared to pay c.£30/day for pigeon shooting, but that is the penalty that you have to pay if you aren't prepared to put the work in to find your own shoot. There are plenty out there who are prepared to pay it. Don Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
digger Posted November 13, 2006 Report Share Posted November 13, 2006 would i pay in folding ? probably not. i pay by helping out on the farm,from lambing to corn cart and any building work thats needed.ive relaid drains,spent mind numbing hours in a hymac ditching and acted as a security guard.good old fashioned bartering=he gets jobs done for nowt and i get some sport.worked then and it works now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lurcherboy Posted November 13, 2006 Report Share Posted November 13, 2006 I have and would if I was starting over again. Once in a spot you can drop names and ask the neighbouring farms. You eventually fall over permissions if you do the job right in your first spot. Don't give up as we all have had the knock backs and you got to keep getting up and pushing on. Good luck LB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocksaplenty Posted November 14, 2006 Report Share Posted November 14, 2006 If you are working on the farm - then you are paying Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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