TGEvans Posted May 12, 2013 Report Share Posted May 12, 2013 I know that the 99% will opt for shorter barrels!But surely there must be advantages for a long barrel?My main reason for asking is I am going to purchase a new .22lr,CZ 455 more than likely and can't decide on 20 or 16 inch barrel.Why would they offer the 20 as standard if there was no use for it?Main use will be at the range and rabbits,not too concerned about weight issues.Thanks guys,Tim. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alpha Mule Posted May 12, 2013 Report Share Posted May 12, 2013 Tin hat on, strap done up: Penis envy! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anth6568 Posted May 12, 2013 Report Share Posted May 12, 2013 I have just bought the CZ 455 17HMR 20inch barrel the other day and have fitted it with a SAK mod and find the overall length fine. If your working from a vehicle then im sure that the 16inch would be better. I know that the 99% will opt for shorter barrels!But surely there must be advantages for a long barrel?My main reason for asking is I am going to purchase a new .22lr,CZ 455 more than likely and can't decide on 20 or 16 inch barrel.Why would they offer the 20 as standard if there was no use for it?Main use will be at the range and rabbits,not too concerned about weight issues.Thanks guys,Tim. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted May 12, 2013 Report Share Posted May 12, 2013 (edited) Personal preference;go for which ever one floats your boat.It's only a .22 . I only had mine shortened to make it more vehicle friendly. Edited May 12, 2013 by Scully Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregthegreat Posted May 12, 2013 Report Share Posted May 12, 2013 A longer barrel will (in theory) give greater accuracy due to barrel harmonics and increased velocity due to time of the bullet in the barrel (giving a flatter trajectory). Will it make much difference in a .22 and at .22 ranges? No. I'd opt got the shorter barrel for the times you go rabbit shooting. Greg. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silverhawk Posted May 12, 2013 Report Share Posted May 12, 2013 I found my 13 inch barrel shoots subs just as good as my 19inch barrel but the 13inch hates high velocity ammo and give a shotgun pattern. Also had my 223 shorten from 20 inch to 16inch and found it now shoots better then before.and makes a lot less noise then before even with the moderator off.I thought it would have made it louder but I'm not complaining. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshwarrior Posted May 12, 2013 Report Share Posted May 12, 2013 My 12.5" out shoots my 18" I believe a lot it this is due to a better crown on the shorter barrel. There is no real world difference in the velocities of the 2 (only tried with CCI subs on chrono). So go for what you like I prefer the look of my 18" but the 12.5" is used more as its easier in the jeep. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hillmouse Posted May 12, 2013 Report Share Posted May 12, 2013 Short barreled .22's still give amazing accuracy but with added convenience when used, as many are, from a vehicle. They also balance better when fitted with a moderator and carried on a sling. Either factory supplied or shortened by a competent rifle smith you really will not have any real world accuracy issues but will find it massively more convenient. If your chosen brand is not producing good groups, which is not uncommon, I find it can be worthwhile trying alternative brands until you find one that suits your rifle. A 20" barelled .22 with a moderator on is a cumbersome thing. I had a beautiful Sako Finnfire but exchanged it for a CZ 16" Thumbhole simply for the convenience of the short barrel and a feeling of cutting down the Sako to be a bit like sacrilage. Without a moderator the Sako was lovely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dadioles Posted May 12, 2013 Report Share Posted May 12, 2013 A longer barrel will (in theory) give greater accuracy due to barrel harmonics and increased velocity due to time of the bullet in the barrel (giving a flatter trajectory). Not true in the case of .22lr. - partly true in the case of centrefire and big slow burning powder loads. Barrel harmonics are related to barrel length as well as a whole load of other things. For accurate shooting the barrel harmonics must be repeatable, the same for every shot, length is not a deciding factor. Increased velocity due to time in the barrel is not true either. Velocity will continue to increase only as long as powder is being burned. In the case of .22lr the "bang" is all used up in about the first 12" (or less) and after that the velocity will decrease due to friction with the barrel. In the days of iron sights a longer barrel was useful as a greater distance between the front and rear sights made more accurate shooting easier. Weight, balance and convenience are the important factors when choosing a barrel length for .22lr. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bicykillgaz Posted May 12, 2013 Report Share Posted May 12, 2013 I use a 20" varmint barrel on mine, I've thought about chopping it but have never got round to doing it as its never been a big issue. If I was buying again I'd probably go for the 16" standard barrel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Underdog Posted May 12, 2013 Report Share Posted May 12, 2013 The slightly longer may help aiming off hand, other than that,,,,,, U. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregthegreat Posted May 12, 2013 Report Share Posted May 12, 2013 (edited) Not true in the case of .22lr. - partly true in the case of centrefire and big slow burning powder loads. Barrel harmonics are related to barrel length as well as a whole load of other things. For accurate shooting the barrel harmonics must be repeatable, the same for every shot, length is not a deciding factor. Increased velocity due to time in the barrel is not true either. Velocity will continue to increase only as long as powder is being burned. In the case of .22lr the "bang" is all used up in about the first 12" (or less) and after that the velocity will decrease due to friction with the barrel. In the days of iron sights a longer barrel was useful as a greater distance between the front and rear sights made more accurate shooting easier. Weight, balance and convenience are the important factors when choosing a barrel length for .22lr. So why offer a 20" barrel then? There are arguments against your velocity theory. In a semi - maybe, but in a bolt action it's not the case. The bullet will continue to accelerate in a 20" barrel compared to a 16" barrel. The bullet will also stabilise better in a longer barrel. Greg. Edited May 12, 2013 by Gregthegreat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Underdog Posted May 12, 2013 Report Share Posted May 12, 2013 The bullet will not stablise any better in a 20" barrel than compared to a 16". Utter jibbajabba! U. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlieT Posted May 12, 2013 Report Share Posted May 12, 2013 So why offer a 20" barrel then? There are arguments against your velocity theory. In a semi - maybe, but in a bolt action it's not the case. The bullet will continue to accelerate in a 20" barrel compared to a 16" barrel. The bullet will also stabilise better in a longer barrel. Greg. I'm afraid your wrong. Peak velocity is reached at 16" then after that barrel length/friction slows the bullet down. Increases in velocity from 12" - 16" are only marginal and for all intents and purposes irrelevant in use. The reason for longer barrels is historical, from the days of open sights where a better sight picture is gained by having a longer barrel. Twist rate stabilises the bullet, not a couple of extra inches of barrel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sitsinhedges Posted May 12, 2013 Report Share Posted May 12, 2013 Not all countries can have moderators, ones with a far bigger firearms marketplace than ours. Now why wouldn't they make a barrel length the folks of that country want to buy as a standard size Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TGEvans Posted May 12, 2013 Author Report Share Posted May 12, 2013 So..what I am getting from this is if I buy a cz silouhette or a cz 455 heavy barrel,whether they have 16 or 20 inch tubes ,will both be as accurate as each other up to and over 100 plus meters/yards? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted May 13, 2013 Report Share Posted May 13, 2013 So..what I am getting from this is if I buy a cz silouhette or a cz 455 heavy barrel,whether they have 16 or 20 inch tubes ,will both be as accurate as each other up to and over 100 plus meters/yards? Put it this way....neither you,nor the rabbits,will be abe to tell the difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregthegreat Posted May 13, 2013 Report Share Posted May 13, 2013 I'm afraid your wrong. Peak velocity is reached at 16" then after that barrel length/friction slows the bullet down. Increases in velocity from 12" - 16" are only marginal and for all intents and purposes irrelevant in use. The reason for longer barrels is historical, from the days of open sights where a better sight picture is gained by having a longer barrel. Twist rate stabilises the bullet, not a couple of extra inches of barrel. Perhaps I am wrong. Perhaps I'm not. My understanding is that in a bolt action rifle the pressure will cause the bullet to continue to accelerate beyond 16". Granted the 'bang' is over before this point but that doesn't mean the bullet instantly slows down. It continues to accelerate briefly. If a longer barrel is used it does help to stabilise the bullet when taking into account these pressure changes at a given point. When the process is looked at as a sequence of events it makes sense to have a longer barrel. Not all countries can have moderators, ones with a far bigger firearms marketplace than ours. Now why wouldn't they make a barrel length the folks of that country want to buy as a standard size That doesn't explain why they are available in a country that DOES allow moderators. The bullet will not stablise any better in a 20" barrel than compared to a 16". Utter jibbajabba! U. Based on what theory? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlieT Posted May 13, 2013 Report Share Posted May 13, 2013 Perhaps I am wrong. Perhaps I'm not. My understanding is that in a bolt action rifle the pressure will cause the bullet to continue to accelerate beyond 16". Granted the 'bang' is over before this point but that doesn't mean the bullet instantly slows down. It continues to accelerate briefly. If a longer barrel is used it does help to stabilise the bullet when taking into account these pressure changes at a given point. When the process is looked at as a sequence of events it makes sense to have a longer barrel. That doesn't explain why they are available in a country that DOES allow moderators. Based on what theory? You obviously have far greater knowledge then the rest of us, so you must be right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Livefast123 Posted May 13, 2013 Report Share Posted May 13, 2013 I had my CZ 511 chopped down from 22" to 14" and have not looked back, the rifle to my mind is more accurate, is far better balanced and is so much easier to use and carry with the SAK attached. There was a test done a while ago that tested .22LR barrel lengths and it showed that anything longer than 16" just slowed the rounds down. I couldn't find the article but there is a thread about it here http://www.kifaruforums.net/archive/index.php/t-6867.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshwarrior Posted May 13, 2013 Report Share Posted May 13, 2013 Perhaps I am wrong. Perhaps I'm not. My understanding is that in a bolt action rifle the pressure will cause the bullet to continue to accelerate beyond 16". Granted the 'bang' is over before this point but that doesn't mean the bullet instantly slows down. It continues to accelerate briefly. That doesn't explain why they are available in a country that DOES allow moderators. ? Greg You are wrong with the 22 rimfire once the bang as you put it is over the round starts to slow due to friction etc this roughly the 16" point. Anything over 16" if used with a scope is cosmetic. Most rifles are aimed at large markets USA etc little markets that can have moderators like the UK are so small they get what is on offer ie 22" etc and we accept it (our fault not the manufactures) it also easy to shorten a barrel and not very expensive either so why would they bother if we keep buying their guns. Perhaps I am wrong. Perhaps I'm not. My understanding is that in a bolt action rifle the pressure will cause the bullet to continue to accelerate beyond 16". Granted the 'bang' is over before this point but that doesn't mean the bullet instantly slows down. It continues to accelerate briefly. That doesn't explain why they are available in a country that DOES allow moderators. ? Greg You are wrong with the 22 rimfire once the bang as you put it is over the round starts to slow due to friction etc this roughly the 16" point. Anything over 16" if used with a scope is cosmetic. Most rifles are aimed at large markets USA etc little markets that can have moderators like the UK are so small they get what is on offer ie 22" etc and we accept it (our fault not the manufactures) it also easy to shorten a barrel and not very expensive either so why would they bother if we keep buying their guns. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riz Posted May 13, 2013 Report Share Posted May 13, 2013 How about some empirical evidence!?? Does no-one have half an hour, a chrono, a tin of ammo and a hacksaw? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Underdog Posted May 13, 2013 Report Share Posted May 13, 2013 Barrel lengthxbullet stability=jibbajabba! U. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlieT Posted May 13, 2013 Report Share Posted May 13, 2013 How about some empirical evidence!?? Does no-one have half an hour, a chrono, a tin of ammo and a hacksaw? This has been done and the results are available on the web and in published works. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekers Posted May 13, 2013 Report Share Posted May 13, 2013 (edited) I don't think it is worth getting too strung up about, there is a lot of information available on the web and within normal(ish) parameters in the field the difference in barrel length will manifest itself more in aesthetics than performance! Edited May 13, 2013 by Dekers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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