I am getting a Sprocker. Am I mad?

[ditchman]

nice to re-read this old thread .....

[bigbird]

On 13/09/2013 at 13:35, Paul223 said:

As with any pup you need to know what the parents are like, other than that he'll act, train and work just like a cocker, only quicker over the ground, 7 out of my litter of 8 went to working homes, 6 of those are doing damn well and the 7th will with some luck be rehomed soon with 2 of his siblings and will be working, all have been easy to train!

 

Would I have another sprocker? Yes indeed, I'm well chuffed with the way mine have come on, first season coming up and I'll forgo a few days to ensure the dogs get what they need.

I recognise that profile pic! 😂😂👍

[simcgunner]

Sorry mix of sporting dogs rarely produce a good working dog. These mongrels can work out sometimes but it is unlikely. They will make good pets but breeding standards for sporting dogs were arrived at by breeders using dispassionate sometimes ruthless methods to get to the traits desired.  breeding a designer dog by crossing two purebred but different breeds (labadoodle ,Sprocker terrierWhippet. etc)..  Is not a good way to get a gundog.IMHO. When in doubt get a lab.   My Choice are GSPs for a dog).

[JDog]

25 minutes ago, simcgunner said:

Sorry mix of sporting dogs rarely produce a good working dog. These mongrels can work out sometimes but it is unlikely. They will make good pets but breeding standards for sporting dogs were arrived at by breeders using dispassionate sometimes ruthless methods to get to the traits desired.  breeding a designer dog by crossing two purebred but different breeds (labadoodle ,Sprocker terrierWhippet. etc)..  Is not a good way to get a gundog.IMHO. When in doubt get a lab.   My Choice are GSPs for a dog).

If you knew my dogs you would eat your words.

[ditchman]

29 minutes ago, simcgunner said:

Sorry mix of sporting dogs rarely produce a good working dog. These mongrels can work out sometimes but it is unlikely. They will make good pets but breeding standards for sporting dogs were arrived at by breeders using dispassionate sometimes ruthless methods to get to the traits desired.  breeding a designer dog by crossing two purebred but different breeds (labadoodle ,Sprocker terrierWhippet. etc)..  Is not a good way to get a gundog.IMHO. When in doubt get a lab.   My Choice are GSPs for a dog).

no dont accept that..............i have had 3 sprockers on after the other and found them a joy..............i have also seen working german shepards from mrs Barrington in southern ireland working as gun dogs....amazing..........its the brain and the phisic that determins a working gundog not the name

[Lloyd90]

4 hours ago, JDog said:

I waited until my dogs developed a brain and I was in tune with them before I did anything other than sit and stay and return. Certainly over 12 months.

 

What does that mean then JDog? Do you take your dogs on walks and let them free run? Do you take them to ground with game on and let them hunt or avoid it like the plague? 

 

I wish I had let mine do a lot more free hunting when a pup to build his confidence especially around cover etc. 

[JDog]

7 minutes ago, Lloyd90 said:

 

What does that mean then JDog? Do you take your dogs on walks and let them free run? Do you take them to ground with game on and let them hunt or avoid it like the plague? 

 

I wish I had let mine do a lot more free hunting when a pup to build his confidence especially around cover etc. 

All of my walks in this part of the world are covered in game and I have never avoided any of them.

Jasper just knows not to chase game and as I said Barney just has it in his own head to return to me when has has flushed something. 

As for their exercise regime, they are at heel for the first few minutes, then they run free like mad things, then they return to heel to go back to the car.

I am no expert in dog training but all of my dogs have given me exactly what I wanted from them including my Border terrier who was a better finder and retriever than a lot of highly trained pedigree gun dogs.

Edited January 17, 2020 by JDog

[Lloyd90]

4 minutes ago, JDog said:

All of my walks in this part of the world are covered in game and I have never avoided any of them.

Jasper just knows not to chase game and as I said Barney just has it in his own head to return to me when has has flushed something. 

As for their exercise regime, they are at heel for the first few minutes, then they run free like mad things, then they return to heel to go back to the car.

I am no expert in dog training but all of my dogs have given me exactly what I wanted from them including my Border terrier who was a better finder and retriever than a lot of highly trained pedigree gun dogs.

 

Brilliant, your lucky to have a lot of game about, I found that they don't become such exciting things to chase when the dog sees them all the time lol 

[JTaylor91]

18 minutes ago, JDog said:

All of my walks in this part of the world are covered in game and I have never avoided any of them.

Jasper just knows not to chase game and as I said Barney just has it in his own head to return to me when has has flushed something. 

As for their exercise regime, they are at heel for the first few minutes, then they run free like mad things, then they return to heel to go back to the car.

I am no expert in dog training but all of my dogs have given me exactly what I wanted from them including my Border terrier who was a better finder and retriever than a lot of highly trained pedigree gun dogs.

Mine does something similar, she has flushed a few partridge and pheasants while doing her own thing. She doesn’t run back but just stops, looks at the birds and then looks back at me. Would you train them to return or stop when they have flushed something?

[JDog]

4 minutes ago, JTaylor91 said:

Mine does something similar, she has flushed a few partridge and pheasants while doing her own thing. She doesn’t run back but just stops, looks at the birds and then looks back at me. Would you train them to return or stop when they have flushed something?

You should ask one of the experts on the forum.

[ditchman]

im no dog expert either ....but the one thing i have always avoided when "training" my dogs ...is never train them on short grass.....they get skylark fever

[Lloyd90]

17 minutes ago, JTaylor91 said:

Mine does something similar, she has flushed a few partridge and pheasants while doing her own thing. She doesn’t run back but just stops, looks at the birds and then looks back at me. Would you train them to return or stop when they have flushed something?

 

The dog needs to stop when it flushes. You can buy the J regs for spaniel trials and tests from the kennel club  Sets the highest standard.

If you prefer the dog to return to you however, you can train it to do that, its your dog and you know what you want to use it for. 

 

Are you going to shoot over the dog? If so you want the dog to stop on the flush so you get a safe shot at the game without the dog being in hot pursuit and being at risk of being shot. 

If you hit the game, you want to then send the dog from where it stopped/sat. If the dog never moved then it can watch where the game is hit / falls (marking the fall) and should then retrieve on command. 

[JTaylor91]

8 minutes ago, Lloyd90 said:

 

The dog needs to stop when it flushes. You can buy the J regs for spaniel trials and tests from the kennel club  Sets the highest standard.

If you prefer the dog to return to you however, you can train it to do that, its your dog and you know what you want to use it for. 

 

Are you going to shoot over the dog? If so you want the dog to stop on the flush so you get a safe shot at the game without the dog being in hot pursuit and being at risk of being shot. 

If you hit the game, you want to then send the dog from where it stopped/sat. If the dog never moved then it can watch where the game is hit / falls (marking the fall) and should then retrieve on command. 

Thanks for the response. I will see how she matures and reinforce the stopping once game is flushed when she is older. Hopefully she won’t start chasing.

[Lloyd90]

1 minute ago, JTaylor91 said:

Thanks for the response. I will see how she matures and reinforce the stopping once game is flushed when she is older. Hopefully she won’t start chasing.

 

I would just get your dog hunting and finding birds in cover, it will give her lots of drive and the dog will have positive association of thick stuff. 

 

When the dog stops I would give her a very high value reward for stopping, so the dog associates stopping on the flush with a great reward and thinks its the best thing to do :) 

[Agriv8]

Just read through this as we are getting a sprocker most interesting the views on here.  but reading a few dog training books sprocker sounds right for what we need. We have bought her because mum and dad are both working dogs and family pets and that’s what we want. Personally I have witnessed labs with pedigree as long as your arm labs retire at 7 or 8 with hips and artists. Any dog is a bit of a lottery health wise either it has a long pedigree or not. 
 

regards Agriv8 

[Remimax]

On 17/01/2020 at 18:33, Lloyd90 said:

 

I would just get your dog hunting and finding birds in cover, it will give her lots of drive and the dog will have positive association of thick stuff. 

 

When the dog stops I would give her a very high value reward for stopping, so the dog associates stopping on the flush with a great reward and thinks its the best thing to do

i thought the first 12months was all about the ball  and retrieving make it fun so the want to stay with you in the field ,get em hunting too soon and you'll possibly lose control and end up with a hill billy bog off dog.

 

[Lloyd90]

4 minutes ago, Remimax said:

i thought the first 12months was all about the ball  and retrieving make it fun so the want to stay with you in the field ,get em hunting too soon and you'll possibly lose control and end up with a hill billy bog off dog.

 

 

It’s a fine balancing act. All depends what you want out of the dog, and on how much drive the dog has to begin with. 
 

I’ll tell you this though, there are a seriously high number of people coming to novice tests and trials with dogs that either won’t hunt or are very poor hunters. This seems to be much more so for cockers than springers. 
 

Recently read the Peter Jones cocker book, he just lets his dogs run around up-to a year old and hunt like mad. He said when he goes to a trial he knows his dog will always be one of if not the best hunter there. He said if the dog runs in, or something else he can put it right, but if the dog doesn’t hunt like a machine then what’s the point? 
 

 

 

Some people however who go beating etc are happy with a slow dog, that just plods about, stays under control all the time and comes back when they want. A lot of shoots/ beaters these days don’t really need dogs with the amount of birds being put down. 
 

 

[Remimax]

16 minutes ago, Lloyd90 said:

 

It’s a fine balancing act. All depends what you want out of the dog, and on how much drive the dog has to begin with. 
 

I’ll tell you this though, there are a seriously high number of people coming to novice tests and trials with dogs that either won’t hunt or are very poor hunters. This seems to be much more so for cockers than springers. 
 

Recently read the Peter Jones cocker book, he just lets his dogs run around up-to a year old and hunt like mad. He said when he goes to a trial he knows his dog will always be one of if not the best hunter there. He said if the dog runs in, or something else he can put it right, but if the dog doesn’t hunt like a machine then what’s the point? 
 

 

 

Some people however who go beating etc are happy with a slow dog, that just plods about, stays under control all the time and comes back when they want. A lot of shoots/ beaters these days don’t really need dogs with the amount of birds being put down. 
 

 

yep surpose everydog is different coupled with poor breeding , all we do is rough shooting so a plodding Spaniel would be about as much use as a chocolate teapot.

Edited January 24, 2020 by Remimax

[Lloyd90]

2 minutes ago, Remimax said:

yep surpose everydog is different coupled with poor breeding , all we do is rough shooting so a plodding Spaniel would be about as much use as a chocolate teapot.

Ah now, a dog that goes slowly but covers all the ground and stays within shot range, is better than a dog going 100mph that’s 50 yards out of range  

 

[Remimax]

1 minute ago, Lloyd90 said:

Ah now, a dog that goes slowly but covers all the ground and stays within shot range, is better than a dog going 100mph that’s 50 yards out of range  

 

the holy grail is the one that does both

[Lloyd90]

11 minutes ago, Remimax said:

the holy grail is the one that does both

That’s when you get awards