whats the dangers of going over 12lbs

[rabid bunny]

Thanks to the BASC website, I think that the following proves my point and information previously given.

 

So,?:yes:??, if you are going to give out information or attemt to riddicule others, at least try to get it right.

 

 

 

 

Offences and maximum penalties applicable to misuse of airguns...

blah blah blah....

Supply

 

I don't get your point?

Where does it say section one has a mandatory five year prison sentence?

 

 

How is having a overpowered airgun without a licence not an arrestable offence? Its a Section 1 firearm.

 

posession of an air rifle is not an arrestable offence. It is not a section one firearm untill it has been seized and tested by the force armourer and proved so. Several weeks later, if it is proved to be a section one air rifle, you will be asked to attend the police station for an interview and dealt with by a summons.

 

It's only an arrestable offence if you use it to commit gun crime. Then the offence is the crime, not the fact that it's a section one firearm.

[il cacciatore]

Simple possession of a Section 1 firearm without authority is a serious criminal offence carrying a maximum penalty of five years imprisonment. http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/c...xt/00324w04.htm

 

An overpowered airgun is a Section 1 firearm and therefore is subject to the same laws as other section 1 firearms. Possession of a Section 1 firearm carries the maximum 5 jail jail sentence. They dont put you in jail without arresting you first and I think that they would arrest you if you were blatantly flaunting the law.

[rabid bunny]

Simple possession of a Section 1 firearm without authority is a serious criminal offence carrying a maximum penalty of five years imprisonment. http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/c...xt/00324w04.htm

 

An overpowered airgun is a Section 1 firearm and therefore is subject to the same laws as other section 1 firearms. Possession of a Section 1 firearm carries the maximum 5 jail jail sentence. They dont put you in jail without arresting you first and I think that they would arrest you if you were blatantly flaunting the law.

 

You are absolutely correct. However, so am I. Your link says nothing about arrestable offences though, or mandatory five years prison.

[snipper]

i think my hw77k is a bit under powered..... think i'll flag down the next jam sandwich and get him to chrono it for me and see

[rabid bunny]

In general terms, an arrestable offence is only warrented if the offence carries a minimum 5 year sentence.

see here:

 

http://www.reloading.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/policeguide.pdf

 

chapter 23 at the bottom of page 20.

 

says if the police suspects the offender may not respond to a summons, then an arrest is justified.

[Lord Geordie]

I overheard a conversation between a gunshop owner and the owner of a precharged pneumatic airgun.

The owner of the airgun was told not to worry about the fact that when he chronoed his gun it was making 12.3Ftlb using bissely magnums.

Th shop owner also said that if you use a heavy pellet in a precharged airgun you get more foot poundage

And that if you use a lighter pellet in a spring gun you get more foot poundage.

Shurley the action in the airgun and how the pressure is built up within it wont have a effect on how much energy it kicks out.

This mans gun was 0.3Ftlb's over the limit, this is such a small amount but would the police still make him reduce the energy in his airgun or still confiscate it, after all this is such a smalll amount ?

 

 

I would have thought that if you were 0.3 over the 12 limit the police wouldnt be too harsh as its more likely down to the pellet type and the gun itself.

On the otherhand if your rifle is pumping out 18ft lbs that says that something has been altered to the gun to produce that sort of power.

 

In my opinion if a gun is producing more that 12ftlbs it is illegal (unless owning an FAC), there is a legal LIMIT for a reason, police should not be forgiving, they should be enforcing law

 

If someone said that they stole food from a shop becasue they were hungry the police would still enforce, i dont see any reason why they should forgive someone for having an over limit airgun, at the end of the day it is your fault if the rifle is over limit.

 

 

Yes there is a LEGAL limit but that came about NOT for safety but to protect the future of british gun manafacturers. This antiquated rule was laid down as the UK market was being flooded with foreign imports and putting companies like BSA and Webley at risk.

 

Then the Government stepped in with the 12fpe rule as MOST if not all imported guns were WAY over this limit. Hence the 12fpe rule arrived in the UK.

 

Now the main bulk of so called British guns are produced abroad and some simply assembled here and add to that the common market etc then really there is NO need to have this antiquated law any more.

 

a 6fpe pistol can (if in the wrong hands) kill also of course the 12fpe Rifle can do the same so i FAIL to see how they can justify the 12fpe rule as some sort of safety level

 

It's time the 12fpe rule was abolished and a form of licencing (lesser than FAC) was introduced.

 

You get people on one hand complaining 12fpe is NOT a humane power and then you ALSO get the whinging brigade about killer guns.

 

It's not the gun it's the nutt at the butt.

 

Guns SHOULD be licenced even Airguns for the simple fact to obtain a licence you need a background check by the Issuing authority and if you are a yardie or a complete cretin then guess what "no gun for you" the way it SHOULD be the last thing we need are dipsticks running amock ruining it for the majority.

 

If your an upstanding member of the community then yes you CAN be issued with a cert or licence to obtain an airgun.

 

As it stands it all depends on the guy doing the testing as sub 12fpe means JUST THAT is should be 12fpe of under

 

Even a .1 variance can effectivley land you in the crud hence most manafacturers now ship guns producing sub 11fpe now.

 

I recently had a tangle with Falcon over a new FN19 producing 14fpe i sent it back to be told it's fine and tested it again and it was STILL over 14fpe.

 

After a third try it came back sitting over 13fpe the guy was trying to tell me it was down to over pressuring the chamber

 

I put in 180bar and they tried to tell me it was 230 i had put in

 

Told them to shove it and set the thing myself to 11.2fpe using Bisley Magnums and then tested with RWS paper punchers and was still under the limit.

 

If you KNOW the gun is over the limit OR suspect it then chrono it and if needs be get a Smithy to reduce your power.

 

LG

[SNAKEBITE]

But can you use an overpowered gun in your back garden?

 

 

See how this thread is panning out? Been here flogged it all to death with repetions of repetions.

 

If he han't got the message by now he is either 1) Daft or 2) going to do it anyway.

Either way he is not going to listen anymore no matter how it is spelled out so why notsave your breath and let him dig his own hole.

[mshadowsky]

why are you typing about me like ive got an over powerd gun or in trouble with the law because i dont and i am not. your talkin with yourself's but ive learnt alot because in this forum theres knowledge of experience and i find this place very interesting theres very good points on this post and these posts and forums. but dont always belive what you read or judge but every ones opinion counts theres alot of nice people on here anyway i bet you dont believe me and im sorry if im boring you but i mean well. mshadowsky

[rabid bunny]

But can you use an overpowered gun in your back garden?

 

See how this thread is panning out? Been here flogged it all to death with repetions of repetions.

 

If he han't got the message by now he is either 1) Daft or 2) going to do it anyway.

Either way he is not going to listen anymore no matter how it is spelled out so why notsave your breath and let him dig his own hole.

 

SNAKEBITE, perhaps you would like to answer your own question for us all? is it illegal to shoot a section one air rifle in your back garden? As it's been flogged to death, you should know the answer then?

Don't forget to back your answer up with a link to the relevent law a little challenge if you will

[henry d]

I`m not Mystic Meg,but even I can see spanked botties coming up.

 

 

Keep to the thread and grill don`t flame

[SNAKEBITE]

But can you use an overpowered gun in your back garden?

 

See how this thread is panning out? Been here flogged it all to death with repetions of repetions.

 

If he han't got the message by now he is either 1) Daft or 2) going to do it anyway.

Either way he is not going to listen anymore no matter how it is spelled out so why notsave your breath and let him dig his own hole.

 

SNAKEBITE, perhaps you would like to answer your own question for us all? is it illegal to shoot a section one air rifle in your back garden? As it's been flogged to death, you should know the answer then?

Don't forget to back your answer up with a link to the relevent law a little challenge if you will

 

It's called sarcasm sweetie

 

I used that in reference to the long winded and somewhat pointless thread that was locked off by Cranfield last week.

 

These threads are crass. It is important to point out the legalaties and the basic important points but when it rambles on and ventures in "opinion" then it just loses the plot and spirals into la la land.

I have just wasted five minutes of my life pointing this out and will probably be doing it again as I will not have learnt my lesson!

[deadeye ive]

Just to put the cat amongst the pigeons if some magic fairy collected all the legal limit air rifles in the country and had them chrono'd over 50% if not more would fail badly ,25% marginal and the rest under or on limit (Source of information based on human nature )

 

There will be a test case in the futre ,Lets hope it's not you

[SNAKEBITE]

I think that you are a little wide of the mark there Ive BUT I can see where you are coming from.

If you buy a gun from a dealer then it will be fine. Once you have a gun that has been fiddled with then that's where you open the can of worms. It is that urge to fiddle that spoils things!

[rabid bunny]

It's called sarcasm sweetie

 

I used that in reference to the long winded and somewhat pointless thread that was locked off by Cranfield last week.

 

These threads are crass. It is important to point out the legalaties and the basic important points but when it rambles on and ventures in "opinion" then it just loses the plot and spirals into la la land.

I have just wasted five minutes of my life pointing this out and will probably be doing it again as I will not have learnt my lesson!

 

Where is that thread now? I would like to read it

[Cranfield]

http://forums.pigeonwatch.co.uk/forums/ind...=25698&st=0

 

If I could be bothered, I would also search up and post the links to the other hundred threads on the same, or similar subject.

 

I was very tempted to post the, "Don't feed the Trolls" icon when this thread started.

[deadeye ive]

I was very tempted to post the, "Don't feed the Trolls" icon when this thread started.

The Magazines are guilty of that sometimes ..............The problem is new shooters read this and that about what a 12 ft lb will do and see articles on 50 rabbits shot humanely in one night on a regular basis ...........free standing shot's etc!etc! .........This is so far removed from the real world that it's not long before the good intentioned starter gets demoralised as he can't repeat in practice what he keeps reading about and starts looking at ways to better his bags

[rabid bunny]

 

It's called sarcasm sweetie

 

I used that in reference to the long winded and somewhat pointless thread that was locked off by Cranfield last week.

 

These threads are crass. It is important to point out the legalaties and the basic important points but when it rambles on and ventures in "opinion" then it just loses the plot and spirals into la la land.

I have just wasted five minutes of my life pointing this out and will probably be doing it again as I will not have learnt my lesson!

 

Where is that thread now? I would like to read it

 

 

SNAKEBITE I just looked that thread up. It was not about shooting a section one firearm in your garden though.

[Mungler]

If your PCP air gun came back as over 12 ft / lbs. How many re-tests could you ask for? I am thinking that if you were prosecuted, there would be a trial, and evidence as to the gun's power would have to be given on behalf of the prosecution. The Defence would also have an opportunity to test and present evidence as to the power of the airgun.

 

I reckon ask for a dozen or so rounds of testing and re-testing (pref on a cold day) and that should reduce the power nicely.

 

I digress....

 

What about adding a few drops of diesel to get the power up or mixing butane in - you might get enough to take out a badger.

 

Been here before? Thread closed ?

[digger]

before this is closed a quick question.if i buy a brand new out of the box air rifle and it is found to be over the legal limit am i to blame for not checking ? not that id have the faintest idea how to do so

[Cyber]

good question digger but unfortunately I am not sure. the only way you can check what ft/lb your gun is at is through a chronograph (purchased at a gun shop or they can test it for you)

 

I think LG has hit the nail on the head with the legality issue though, i also think it would be alot better to have to apply for a lesser version of the FAC licence as the way it works at the moment, almost anyone can get their hands on a full power air rifle which in the wrong hands can be deadly.

[CARBINE]

Well that was interesting reading perhaps we should start a lobby on the gov

to get the law change......

[kdubya]

before this is closed a quick question.if i buy a brand new out of the box air rifle and it is found to be over the legal limit am i to blame for not checking ? not that id have the faintest idea how to do so

 

Unfortunately YES you are, I personally dont agree with this concept but regardless of my opinion the legal

position is its down to YOU I also have factual recorded evidence regards this as my local gun shop sold a lad an s16, lad gets a pull; (dont know why) gun goes to get tested ( I know the tester it went to) it was found to be slightly over12.5ft/lbs police destroyed gun oh and no the lad did not get five years!! lads father complained to the local press that his son had been sold and illegal firearm and was demanding recompense ie his money back, shop owner says hang on we dont test them its down to you so sod off! lads dad goes to

logun and gets nowhere, now as said I dont personally agree as it should be right and bought as sold ie a sub 12lb gun, but law is law end of, perhaps if our indigeonous gun manufacturers had not been so afraid

of the yanks and their input into the domestic market, and more eductated knowledge of airguns demanded PRIOR to them simply being sold then perhaps then the silly 12lb rule would not exist, as it had little to do with lethality more to do with market capture.

cheers KW

[Lord Geordie]

before this is closed a quick question.if i buy a brand new out of the box air rifle and it is found to be over the legal limit am i to blame for not checking ? not that id have the faintest idea how to do so

 

Unfortunately YES you are, I personally dont agree with this concept but regardless of my opinion the legal

position is its down to YOU I also have factual recorded evidence regards this as my local gun shop sold a lad an s16, lad gets a pull; (dont know why) gun goes to get tested ( I know the tester it went to) it was found to be slightly over12.5ft/lbs police destroyed gun oh and no the lad did not get five years!! lads father complained to the local press that his son had been sold and illegal firearm and was demanding recompense ie his money back, shop owner says hang on we dont test them its down to you so sod off! lads dad goes to

logun and gets nowhere, now as said I dont personally agree as it should be right and bought as sold ie a sub 12lb gun, but law is law end of, perhaps if our indigeonous gun manufacturers had not been so afraid

of the yanks and their input into the domestic market, and more eductated knowledge of airguns demanded PRIOR to them simply being sold then perhaps then the silly 12lb rule would not exist, as it had little to do with lethality more to do with market capture.

cheers KW

 

 

I remember a case in the Local paper where a woman bought her Husband an Air rifle for his Birthday from a well established newcastle gun shop (i won't mention the name) but the top and bottom of it was the gun was taken away for a balistic test (guy hadn't been doing anything stupid) and the gun came back OVER the limit.

 

Case went full out into court and the court found him not guilty and passed the blame onto the gun shop for selling him a second hand rifle without making sure it was within the legal limit.

 

If you buy a new gun and it's over the limit as long as YOU aint fiddled with it then it SHOULD fall onto the seller OR manafacturer for poor QC and letting it out the factory in the first place.

 

BUT as i say when ever you buy a secondhand gun be SURE to check it yourself or if buying from a shop insist it is chrono'd

 

Consider what may happen if the seller claims he never altered it then the FULL blame may fall to you depending on the courts OR police's findings

 

Like i said in an earlier post My FN19 was brand new and over the limit. Having sent it back if i had NOT checked it a further time and was caught (this is where it gets interesting) then because i had KNOWN it was over powered and sent back and not checked again myself to be sure it was on or under the limit and USED it then I would become the person at fault because the Factory would claim (we tested it and lowered the power to meet regulations) leaving ME in a right pickle.

 

For the sake of £35ish for a Combro is it worth a criminal record?

 

LG

[digger]

i totally agree its an archaic law and one that seems to have more loopholes than a loopholey thing.i cant fathom how the factories can send out air rifles and gunshops sell the same with no assurance they are under or on the legal limit.makes me wonder do gunshops chrono the rifles they sell as second hand to cover their backs ? also makes me wonder how the hell you chrono a rifle ?

can you get the same readings using the same technique for a .177 as a .357 big game gun ? pardon my ignorance

edited to add i dont expect a .177 to give the same reading as a .357 rigby but are the principals the same ?

[kirky640]

none just dont get caut buy anyone