American Pit Bulls

[Bradders]

Like most things in life there is a risk, not taking away the seriousness of the incident and tragic consequences but I feel that you have to balance things in life. Yes there are irresponsible owners of dogs and some breeds do attract the wrong kind of owners for the wrong kind of reasons. Any sane or reasonable person would not leave a dog that is susceptible (through reputation or previous behaviour) to attacking people (or other dogs) unsupervised or unrestrained at any time. We all take reasonable (almost paranoid) care to prevent accidents whilst shooting. Dog owners should take all precautions to ensure their dog does not "get out of control" however, we must remember that this happened in a private residence and not in a public place. In any place where the public have a legimitate right to be then owners should ensure that dogs which MAY (and I mean ALL breeds) pose a danger are kept on a lead and muzzled at all times. Should we ban these kind of dogs, well I can see both sides of the argument, however, like a lot of things in life no one wants to take their responibilities seriously and when things go tragically wrong always look for someone else to blame other than themselves. Tragically, no amount of controls aimed at protecting the public in public places would have prevented this tradegy as it did happn in a private dwelling. What charge should be levelled at the owner of this dog (or other owners whos dogs seriously injure, main or kill). Would a man slaugher charge be brought or some lesser charge of "failing to control a dog" (if such a thing exists). On a personal note some dogs make me nervous and I would prefer these to be on a lead and muzzled at all times when in public, others I feel I could easily over power if the need arose. An emotive subject and not one that will ever be settled to everyones satisfaction.

[new to the flock]

I know many Rotwiellers, Staffordfordshire Terriers and Pitbulls that are great even tempered dogs and are as gentle as kittens. As a matter of fact I have know alot of kittens that have beed down right mean and dangerous.

 

Back yard breeding and the tuffs trying to intimidate people with their abused, poorly bred trained to fight dogs give these breeds a bad reputation. It is true that they were originally bred as fighting dogs, but look at a show bred setter or cocker, can it still find the instincts to perform what it was bred for? Chows, Cockers, Shar Paies, and even Newfs have all gone through this. And once again it comes down to get the back yard breeders...you know the ones that breed anything to anything for money...,the puppy mills, drug dealers, and dog fighters cleaned up and you will clean up the breed.

 

And as LB says never leave a child unsupervised around an animal, no matter how docile they are

 

NTTF

[Hodmedod.one]

Hod, it's just my opinion, and yes, maybe it is inflammatory, but it is just an opinion. Just like your opinion that I am a grade-A ****.

 

Do you honestly expect to read consistently balanced and objective arguments on a forum? I don't. That's why I enjoy this forum. A blend of views.......

 

Thank you for nominating me for '**** Of The Year 2007' though. I'm delighted, particularly at this early stage of the competition.

 

Baldrick,

Your sweeping insults were very inbalanced and unobjective. Genocide is not very PC. Having people shot will also not go down well with your local FEO come renewal time. Having read previous posts of yours, I had the opinion that you were the owner of sufficient intelligence to realise that.

 

You are most welcome to your K-O-T-Y-2007 nomination. Credit where it's deserved and all that...

 

In an attempt to assure that you receive suitable come-uppance for your indescretion, I have spent the morning thrashing my Bull Terrier about the genitalia with a nail imbedded Tony Robinson doll. As you can see from the photo I have recently posted in Sporting Pictures, he is now in a frenzied state and looking forward to meeting you. :o

 

 

I know many Rotwiellers, Staffordfordshire Terriers and Pitbulls that are great even tempered dogs and are as gentle as kittens. As a matter of fact I have know alot of kittens that have beed down right mean and dangerous.

 

Back yard breeding and the tuffs trying to intimidate people with their abused, poorly bred trained to fight dogs give these breeds a bad reputation. It is true that they were originally bred as fighting dogs, but look at a show bred setter or cocker, can it still find the instincts to perform what it was bred for? Chows, Cockers, Shar Paies, and even Newfs have all gone through this. And once again it comes down to get the back yard breeders...you know the ones that breed anything to anything for money...,the puppy mills, drug dealers, and dog fighters cleaned up and you will clean up the breed.

 

And as LB says never leave a child unsupervised around an animal, no matter how docile they are

 

NTTF

 

Well said Sir :o

[Baldrick]

I'm an intelligent chap, Hod, bloody intelligent. I never said my posts on this particular thread were balanced and objective though - far from it. It's a topic that makes my blood boil. May I offer my explanation and reasoning to the Honourable gentleman?

 

Some form of exchange programme is in order: I can head back to Norfolk to see how Pit Bull-type dogs are raised/trained/handled. You can come down to the repellent area of South London that I live in, and see how the natives down here raise/train/handle said dogs. Then we can meet up, assuming I am still mobile after your Bull Terrier has given me the love bite it's begging to give, and we can then compare notes.

 

I think that after spending time (years, in my case, as a dog-owner in this city) living on the periphery of a virtual slum in SW London, where most of the indigenous people use Pit Bull-type dogs as weapons and as something to aid their macho posturing in the dole queue, you may begin to accept my rather warped view, on both the dogs and genocide. Perhaps also I may have my opinons tempered by seeing these animals properly handled and respected in the right environment, by experienced and intelligent adults.

[Hodmedod.one]

I'm an intelligent chap, Hod, bloody intelligent. I never said my posts on this particular thread were balanced and objective though - far from it. It's a topic that makes my blood boil. May I offer my explanation and reasoning to the Honourable gentleman?

 

Some form of exchange programme is in order: I can head back to Norfolk to see how Pit Bull-type dogs are raised/trained/handled. You can come down to the repellent area of South London that I live in, and see how the natives down here raise/train/handle said dogs. Then we can meet up, assuming I am still mobile after your Bull Terrier has given me the love bite it's begging to give, and we can then compare notes.

 

I think that after spending time (years, in my case, as a dog-owner in this city) living on the periphery of a virtual slum in SW London, where most of the indigenous people use Pit Bull-type dogs as weapons and as something to aid their macho posturing in the dole queue, you may begin to accept my rather warped view, on both the dogs and genocide. Perhaps also I may have my opinons tempered by seeing these animals properly handled and respected in the right environment, by experienced and intelligent adults.

 

Sorry Balders old chap, you can't be that intelligent or you would have the sense to live outside the cess-pit commonly known as London (slight generalisation, I know).

People who use Pit-Bull type dogs as weapons are scum.

People who keep any type of dog when they are incapable of controlling or training it are not much better.

I do not keep Pit-Bull type dogs. English Bull Terriers are totally different.

Like many other ill informed people, you are tarring them all with the same brush. They are totally separate breeds. I know nothing about keeping Pit-Bulls, which is why I keep my comments within the realms of my knowledge of English Bulls. You probably know more about Pit-Bulls than I do, so feel free to comment, but don't include the other breeds.

If you want to come up to Norfolk and have a close encounter with my Bully, Barnsley and I will be thrilled to see you. Bring some spare clothes though, as he may try licking you to death.

[Cranfield]

Thank you for nominating me for '**** Of The Year 2007' though. I'm delighted, particularly at this early stage of the competition.

 

Trust me, there is no way you will be able to hang on to that title for long. :o :o

[SNAKEBITE]

I was under the impression that the "pit bull" was not an actual breed such as a Doberman or a Jack Russel but more of a generic term that the press bandied around to encourage sensationalism.

Anything that looked a bit mean was given the title "pit bull" in the late 90's whatever breed or cross it actually was.

[Baldrick]

I think this supports my argument for involuntary euthansia, Hod? He sounds like a responsible fellow.

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml...03/udogs103.xml

[Highlander]

Seems to me this incident and the 'shot in the face' one are somewhat similar…lethal weapons (or at least very dangerous ones) being owned and operated by total planks WITHOUT a b***** licence. When will the powers that be realise that tightening the laws around these things still doesn’t stop the mindless, worthless, space wasting elements in society accessing them! All it really does is make life more difficult for the moral majority! Unfortunately even when they’ve totally banned every damn thing there’ll still be incidents like these and the rest of us will just have to take up golf or sit around watching football (both of which I for one hate)

[SPARKIE]

my opion on this is that its not the type of dog it the type of owner and how they are trained i know people with staffys and pit bulls and there soft as **** i do think that the youth of today see them as a statement symbol tho.any dog can bite dont matter what type of breed it is its all in the training and how the dog is treated.a dog is suppose to be mans best freind .some times id sooner talk to mine than the missus (get more sense).and no there not pittys or out like that ive a lab and a jack russel pup who is learning very quickly.at the end of the day if they ban pittys n terriors of that type they would only get a rotty or a doberman or a german shepherd its the idiots who get into trouble who sould be banned from keeping such dogs.

[Dunkield]

I think this supports my argument for involuntary euthansia, Hod? He sounds like a responsible fellow.

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml...03/udogs103.xml

 

I don't wish to pigeonhole, but he certainly looks and sounds like chav scum to me

[sussex lad]

I don't wish to pigeonhole, but he certainly looks and sounds like like chav scum to me :o

[Gordon R]

This incident relates to a Pit Bull Terrier. I fail to see how English Bull and Staffordshire Terriers got dragged in to it. Try banning:-

 

Collies - been bitten by one.

Labrador - attacked my Akitas.

Bull Mastiff

Neapolitan Mastiff

Bulldog

Boxer

Airedale Terrier

German Shepherd

Rottweiler

Mastiff

Doberman

Anatolian Shepherd

Hungarian Kuvasz

Alaskan Malamute

Leonburger

Shar-Pei

Standard Poodle

Karelian Bear Dog

French Beauceron

Chow Chow

Hovawart

Rhodesian Ridgeback

Bouvier des Flandres

Estrela Mountain Dog

Tibetan Mastiff

Maremma Sheepdog

Komondor

Japanese Akita

 

And last but not least Jack Russell Terrier. All of these dogs are capable, or in some cases have, inflicted serious injuries on other dogs or persons.

[Hodmedod.one]

I think this supports my argument for involuntary euthansia, Hod? He sounds like a responsible fellow.

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml...03/udogs103.xml

 

Exactly, which is why I object to you placing me and my dog in the same pigeonhole as that cretin.

[Mungler]

Well, in this instance no one was laying odds that the owner was going to be sporting a beard, wearing sandals and photographed reading the Guardian.

 

I would hasten to add that this thread started with the question "American Pit Bulls, Why would you want one as a pet?" Not Bull Mastiff, Bull Terrier, Bulldog or Sandra Bullock.

 

This was interesting:

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6222689.stm

 

"Originally pit bulls were bred for bull-baiting, a gambling "game" where bulldogs attacked bulls in pits.

But when that was banned in 1835, breeders turned their attention to the practice of dog-fighting.

Pit bulls were bred to maximise aggression, to have a high pain threshold and a willingness to fight to the death."

 

Sounds pretty cool. I gotta get me one.

[Gordon R]

Mungler - whatever argument you had or did not, you just lost credibility with a really silly statement. In the present climate, why did you feel the need to be so stupid?

[Yorkshire Pudding]

http://www.bulldogbreeds.com/americanpitbullterrier.html

 

 

American Pit Bull Terrier

 

 

 

Description:

Known for their intelligence and loyalty American Pit Bull Terriers make excellent, loving and protective companions despite the unfair press they receive. A common question regarding the APBT is, "How is this breed different from the American Staffordshire Terrier?". In the eyes of the United Kennel Club, they are the same breed, but many disagree. Some AKC-registered American Staffordshire Terriers are dual-registered as American Pit Bull Terriers with the UKC; however, this draws criticism from many who point out that the bloodlines have been separate for too long for these to be considered the same breed. The AKC, on the other hand, does not allow a UKC-registered American Pit Bull Terrier to be registered as an American Staffordshire Terrier. To be dual-registered, the dog must first be an AKC-registered American Staffordshire Terrier and then it can be registered with the UKC as an APBT -- but not vice versa... Choose from a responsible breeder and make sure the puppy is properly socialized and handled. Solid training will produce a tranquil, good, obedient, companion dog.

 

Height: 18 - 22 inches

 

Weight: 30 - 60 lbs.

 

Colors:

Any color

 

Coat:

Thick, short, shiny hair

 

Temperament:

Courageous, loyal, full of energy; Should be socialized early on with children and other animals.

 

Care and Exercise:

Regular brushing with a bristle brush or rubbing down his coat with a chamois will keep the coat shiny and clean. Bath only when necessary. Needs a substantial amount of vigorous exercise which needs to be on-leash. Enjoys running along side a bicycle.

 

Health Issues:

Mange and heart murmurs. Breeders should be concerned with doing health testing on the sire or dam such as OFA, PENN HIP

 

History/Origin:

His ancestors were brought to the Unites States in the mid - 1800's by Boston-Irish immigrants. Originally bred from a variety of bulldogs and terriers, American breeders increased his weight and gave him a more powerful head. A forbearer to the Staffordshire Bull Terrier, they were originally bred to be a fighting dog. Bull baiting was banned in England in 1835 and these dogs are no longer been bred to fights. There is some complication in registries of this breed. The AKC considers the American Staffordshire Terrier as separate and distinct from the American Pit Bull Terrier, yet the UKC will register both as American Pit Bull Terriers (APBTs).

In America, the Pit Bull flourished. It was one of the most popular breeds, highly prized by a wide variety of people. The Pit Bull was used to represent the US in WW1 artwork; popular companies like RCA and the Buster Brown Shoe Company used the breed as their mascots. A Pit Bull named Petie starred in the popular children's television series, Our Gang; a Pit Bull mix named Stubby became a decorated WW1 hero. Pit Bulls accompanied pioneer familes on their explorations. Laura Ingalls Wilder of the popular Little House books owned a working Pit Bulldog named Jack. Famous individuals like Theodore Roosevelt and Helen Keller owned the breed. It was during this time that the Pit Bull truly became America?s sweetheart breed, admired, respected and loved.

In 1898 the United Kennel Club was formed with the express intent of providing registration and fighting guidelines for the now officially-named American Pit Bull Terrier. Later, those who wished to distance themselves from the fighting aspect of the breed petitioned the American Kennel Club for recognition of the Pit Bull so that it would be eligible for dog shows and other performance events. The AKC conceded in 1936 but only under the stipulation that the dogs registered with them be called "Staffordshire Terriers", the name of the province in England the breed supposedly originated in. Upon acceptance of the breed, many people dual-registered their dogs with both the AKC and the UKC. Lucenay's Peter (the dog that starred in the Our Gang series) was the first dual-registered Pit Bull/Staffordshire Terrier. The UKC evolved, eventually beginning to register other working-type breeds, and later holding shows similar to those of the AKC. Currently, the UKC is the second largest purebred dog registry in the United States, complete with strict bylaws that ban anyone who is convicted of dog fighting. The American Dog Breeders Association was formed in 1909 because of certain fanciers' opinions that the UKC was not doing it's job protecting and preserving the Pit Bull breed as they felt it should be preserved. The ADBA's goal is the same now is at was then: to register, promote and preserve the original American Pit Bull Terrier fighting-type dog.

The AKC eventually closed it's studbooks to American Pit Bull Terriers. They allowed registration only to those dogs with parents registered as Staffordshire Terriers. For a short period in the 1970's, the AKC reopened its studbooks to American Pit Bull Terriers. In 1973 the AKC added the prefix "American" to the breed's name in an effort to distinguish it from the newly recognized Staffordshire Bull Terrier. Today, only those dogs with AmStaff parents are eligible for registration. Both the UKC and the ADBA allow registration of AmStaffs, but in these organizations the dogs carry the original name, "American Pit Bull Terrier."

Today the Pit Bull has evolved into a marvelous working and companion dog, used for purposes as varied as those it originally performed. Pit Bulls are employed as police/armed services dogs, search and rescuers, therapy animals, and livestock workers. They compete in all manner of organized dog sports, from herding to agility to conformation to obedience and the bite sports like Schutzhund and French Ring. They make loving pets for children and seniors, and everyone in between. The are indeed one of the most versatile breeds on the planet. Much of this is owed to the activities it once performed. The harshness and physical demands of the activities molded a strong, healthy, stable animal, one anyone should be proud to own.

 

Category: Terrier

 

Registries: UCA, UKC, ADBA, CKC

 

Living Environment: Either Indoor or Outdoor

 

 

Sounds pretty cool gotta get me one .

 

Mungler i've never owned an apbt , but have had experience of a lot of the bull breeds , i have never had a problem nor any of the owners with "misguided" aggression . Although if i was a burgler trying to break into one of the houses where bulls are housed , i'd be pooing myself .

 

all the best yis yp

[Mungler]

Mungler - whatever argument you had or did not, you just lost credibility with a really silly statement. In the present climate, why did you feel the need to be so stupid?

 

Which bit of the statement or just the whole lot?

 

Credibility, well I never had any to lose.

 

I believe I was aiming for sarcasm but if it missed the mark, then apologies

[webber]

It has been reported on the North West BBC television news that Merseyside police have siezed 8 Pitbull terrier dogs in raids on premises in St. Helens and Widnes.

 

webber

[Dunkield]

Does this mean we have days more of this thread?

 

Mungler, your sarcasm hit the mark, and I got it, I am not sure about some of the others though...

[Mungler]

Indeed, ring the bell, it has to be thread closing time.

 

I remain surprised that in a disucssion forum people get quite so upset when others refuse to see a subject or situation 100% their way. That is not reasonable behaviour. In any discussion or argument there are points to be made and taken on both sides.

 

I remain unconvinced that I would want a pit bull or indeed a bull terrier as a pet. That is my opinion. I do not dislike or hate or feel compelled to throw insults at any who disagree with my view.

 

I take YP's point that "banning" anything does not work and the more you ban the less civil liberties society has as a whole (that is what I took the Sieg Heil can you smell gas comments to mean) - look at hand guns and in particular look at recent events - the amercian pit bull that killed the girl was a prohibited dog under the Dangerous Dogs Act. Fat lot of good that piece of legislation is and that attempt to "ban".

 

Is now an appropriate time to call GordonR a gaylord?

[Shotgun-Sean]

i have a friend that had a American pit bull for 15 years and i know for a fact that she was a loyal and friendly companion she never bit anyone ok she might jump up but the worst she would do would be to lick you with her tail shaking like mad

I believe its the way you bring them up, like a child if you give it love, time and affection it grows into a responsible member of the family

if you treat it with disrespect, beat it and abuse it then i am afraid it wears a hoody and mugs old people

the same with a dog ANY dog give it love and respect and treat it well and you will have a well mannered dog, yet miss treat it and you have got a lunatic with teeth on an A.S.B.O. rampage

 

I think bring back the dog Licence and make it at a price that only serious dog owners would pay ie £150 and other rules like all dogs to be insured and chipped

 

going to stop now before i get right on my bucket

 

Cheers sean

[SNAKEBITE]

Does this mean we have days more of this thread?

 

Well I hope so because to be honest I am enjoying this spectacle.

[al4x]

In a way the dangerous dogs act didn't set out to ban them straight away, it put in place procedures so the dogs would be safe in public and stopped breeding of them which should have meant the breed in the UK died out about now. But with people wanting to own them they crossed them with all sorts to get round the law etc and the breed hasn't disapeared it flourishes in Chav areas of the UK with the only people who want to own them being entirely unsuitable. Realistically you don't have one as a caring pet its as a status symbol, for protection or for dog fighting. The main problem is that the police have far better things to do than start looking for people owning and breeding pit bulls so its been left alone till sadly this happened. I've seen one that flipped and it wasn't pretty that was shot in someones kitchen after the police tried to seize it and couldn't

They aren't family pets and this country is simply too highly populated for them.

[Gordon R]

Mungler - for someone who does not insult others, you do seem to be having a junior dig. If you have something on your mind - just spit it out and stop being a ****.