Control of Cormorants

[scorpius]

I own a 4 acre lake in which their are a fair amount of mixed fish including carp,tench,roach, ect. I applied for a licence to control the number of Cormorants taking fish, when the licence was granted by Natural England the following conditions applied: no birds could be shot unless 2 or more were present,a maxi of 1 bird can shot per month, although I posses a F.A.C. licence I must use either 12 or 20 gauge shotgun using shot size No4. I am not adverse to killing but cruelty unacceptable, and the chances of injuring a bird at 70 yds plur is great, the sound of a shotgun does not deter them. Can somebody explain the logic?.

[Cranfield]

I would guess only Natural England could explain their logic.

Its possible, if they inspected your land, that they considered using an FAC weapon there was unsafe.

I have not heard of the "no FAC" condition before.

[Kes]

Go back to them and explain a rifle would be more effective and humane - it may be that they dont allow FAC near or on water - ricochets - but a chat with them might allow you to use the more effective weapon.

Otherwise, a bait station, hide and trail cam would be useful and not too impractical from your setup.

Edited November 10, 2013 by Kes

[Nikk]

I own a 4 acre lake in which their are a fair amount of mixed fish including carp,tench,roach, ect. I applied for a licence to control the number of Cormorants taking fish, when the licence was granted by Natural England the following conditions applied: no birds could be shot unless 2 or more were present,a maxi of 1 bird can shot per month, although I posses a F.A.C. licence I must use either 12 or 20 gauge shotgun using shot size No4. I am not adverse to killing but cruelty unacceptable, and the chances of injuring a bird at 70 yds plur is great, the sound of a shotgun does not deter them. Can somebody explain the logic?.

 

 

These conditions they put are ridiculous :(

[samboy]

I control 2 fishing lakes for Cormorants but am only allowed to use a 12 gauge, There are 6 of us on license and we can only shoot 6 per season.

Thats not 6 each thats 6 between us and are supposed to shoot to scare first. I could not use my fac because of richochets.

Like yourself there must be 2 or more birds on the lake or in the air before i can shoot them. I use no 4 shot although i have used no 6.

The rules and regs are a joke, whoever makes them up are obviously not fishermen.

They are wising up over my 2 lakes and as soon as they see you they are gone.

We have a couple of dummies in hi viz gear around the lake and a dummie in a boat in the middle of the lake to try and help keep them away.

You just have to spend as much time as you can over the lake to try and keep them away.

There is another lake which is not shot over and the Corms are plentyful.

[Dekers]

I don't have any specific requirement to control them but I have noticed their numbers appear to be growing along much of the Thames!

[mark@mbb]

Does any body have any details as where you apply for this control licence as we are suffering quite a lot at the moments

[CharlieT]

Does any body have any details as where you apply for this control licence as we are suffering quite a lot at the moments

 

http://www.naturalengland.org.uk/ourwork/regulation/wildlife/licences/applicationforms.aspx#7

 

http://www.naturalengland.org.uk/Images/wmla06_tcm6-9666.pdf

[kent]

I own a 4 acre lake in which their are a fair amount of mixed fish including carp,tench,roach, ect. I applied for a licence to control the number of Cormorants taking fish, when the licence was granted by Natural England the following conditions applied: no birds could be shot unless 2 or more were present,a maxi of 1 bird can shot per month, although I posses a F.A.C. licence I must use either 12 or 20 gauge shotgun using shot size No4. I am not adverse to killing but cruelty unacceptable, and the chances of injuring a bird at 70 yds plur is great, the sound of a shotgun does not deter them. Can somebody explain the logic?.

You can only explain such rubbish if your a bureaucrat. Make sure you fill in the correct amount and always put your return in. Does the licence specify the shot must also leave the shotcup? LOL

[evo]

I have two permissions where we have permission to shoot cormo,s,

 

1 is a 3 acre lake and a 1/2 acre lake (commercial) we have a licence to shoot 5 per year,

 

the other is another commercial with 6 lakes totalling 11 acres and we are licenced to shoot 2

 

now where is the logic in that

 

we have noticed a large increase on the birds visiting and two of our local park lakes have been devastated by these birds, our council spent a fortune improving the parks and stocking them with fish and these hungry birds have all but eaten the fish put in the lakes, I had a phone call from a secretary telling me he counted 40+ birds on one island in the park,

 

someone seriously needs to get it sorted, they are a sea bird and are coming further and further inland to destroy commercial fishing lakes and also natural lakes too,

 

I have found that letting them feed first and then shooting them to be the best method as they do not take off, mind you sometimes you can let a cart off and they just flinch and don't even bother flying off because they are that hard faced,

 

atb Evo

[Guest cookoff013]

is that 4s only or 4s minumum?

and is that steel?

[samboy]

On my license it states, shot of an appropriate size should be used, avoiding size 6 or smaller shot and very large shot such as BB.Shot size 3 or 4 will normally be most appropriate.

You should be aware of restrictions on the use of lead shot over wetlands. The Environmental Protection (restriction on use of lead shot) (England) Regulations 1999, as amended,

prohibits the use of lead shot for shooting with a shotgun, on or over sites of Special Scientific Interest (SSSI) included in Schedule 1 of the regulations or over any area below

high - water mark.

[Fisherman Mike]

Just tell Caesar what Caesar needs to know.. shoot them at dawn when they are most active.. I may be member of the BTO and RSPB but Cormorants are salt water birds and should be at sea... They should be eradicated inland in my opinion.

[Fisheruk]

I have avian species on my FAC for my 17hmr. Less chance of a richocet than the 22lr. I would ask for avian on your FAC then go back to Natural England.

[goodo123]

Surely we are missing the point... Why are they coming so far inland? Are there natural food supplies dwindleing? Are there simply too many of them and need to be controlled? Are they evolving?

[evo]

Just tell Caesar what Caesar needs to know.. shoot them at dawn when they are most active.. I may be member of the BTO and RSPB but Cormorants are salt water birds and should be at sea... They should be eradicated inland in my opinion.

+ 1,,,totally agree

[kent]

I have avian species on my FAC for my 17hmr. Less chance of a richocet than the 22lr. I would ask for avian on your FAC then go back to Natural England.

 

 

Very few places were you can take a safe shot (certainly not on the water) and its not safe (or compliant with most licence requirements) to shoot skywards on the roost in 99% of locations. The ricochet risk difference is mute between .22 lr and .17 hmr as it cant be utilised in any worthwhile way on shot taken or otherwise because it occurs in both

[Penelope]

Their is a chain of thought that the cormorants that we get inland, are in fact a European sub species from the continent that favours freshwater that is increasing it's range in the same way as the collard dove did.

 

I have two permissions where we have permission to shoot cormo,s,

 

1 is a 3 acre lake and a 1/2 acre lake (commercial) we have a licence to shoot 5 per year,

 

the other is another commercial with 6 lakes totalling 11 acres and we are licenced to shoot 2

 

now where is the logic in that

 

we have noticed a large increase on the birds visiting and two of our local park lakes have been devastated by these birds, our council spent a fortune improving the parks and stocking them with fish and these hungry birds have all but eaten the fish put in the lakes, I had a phone call from a secretary telling me he counted 40+ birds on one island in the park,

 

someone seriously needs to get it sorted, they are a sea bird and are coming further and further inland to destroy commercial fishing lakes and also natural lakes too,

 

I have found that letting them feed first and then shooting them to be the best method as they do not take off, mind you sometimes you can let a cart off and they just flinch and don't even bother flying off because they are that hard faced,

 

atb Evo

[strangford wildfowler]

I own a 4 acre lake in which their are a fair amount of mixed fish including carp,tench,roach, ect. I applied for a licence to control the number of Cormorants taking fish, when the licence was granted by Natural England the following conditions applied: no birds could be shot unless 2 or more were present,a maxi of 1 bird can shot per month, although I posses a F.A.C. licence I must use either 12 or 20 gauge shotgun using shot size No4. I am not adverse to killing but cruelty unacceptable, and the chances of injuring a bird at 70 yds plur is great, the sound of a shotgun does not deter them. Can somebody explain the logic?.

I have a friend who was in the same dilemma as yourself he was wanting clean kills all the time so he uses and recommends

Alfamax BB

Using a .17 rifle

And wax slugs he says you can use the worst shells out and they still work, only problem is I cant tell you how to make them as I dont know how.

[kent]

I think we get both types depending on area. The issue is man made though, dig a hole in the ground and overstock it so fish are easy to catch for poor anglers then empty the seas inshore. Its like ringing the dinner bell! In the process you get the head of rivers emptied of smolts and parr and other shoaling fish like dace decimated as the water is shallow and clear (far easier fishing to the freshly re-stocked muddy holes in the ground the cormorants then return to once these are gone).

Man really is his own worst enemy

[Bazooka]

Massive problem these days. Try and find their roosting point and make sure someone on that point has permission to control them.Next best is to let them feed and get as close as is possible. The weight of the fish they eat in their belly's makes flying away a low slow process.

A bigger problem to fish stocks is the gooseander.This bird is a killing-eating machine.From a very early age.

[Penelope]

Goosanders are likely to be an isolated problem, Cormorants are country wide, from the smallest commercial puddle to the largest reservoir/gravel pit and all rivers.

 

Massive problem these days. Try and find their roosting point and make sure someone on that point has permission to control them.Next best is to let them feed and get as close as is possible. The weight of the fish they eat in their belly's makes flying away a low slow process.

A bigger problem to fish stocks is the gooseander.This bird is a killing-eating machine.From a very early age.

Edited April 14, 2014 by Penelope

[kent]

I am with you on the gooseander, very bad on the upper reaches of spate rivers and I know of nobody who has been given a licence. Birds are unusual as predators because they can just fly on elsewhere once the food is depleted, hence how do you get balance?

[Bazooka]

Do not be fooled. The gooseander will predate anywhere.Lower reaches of tidal waters,stillwaters,you name it.They've got fantastic survival rates.Mothers watch each others young so the young are very rarely ever predated on.One major thing in their favour is that they look from a glance, like harmless ducks.This is why there is such a misconception that cases are isolated.They are by far the biggest threat to young smolt and par and will consume an estimated 20-30 times more the amount of fish per day/month/year/ than that of the cormorant.Cormorants are responsible for starting diseases in fish populations though as well as scoffing them.

[grrclark]

Without wanting to distract the conversation thread, I couldn't help but smile when I saw the forum contents page for this topic (see pic below). I thought that how on earth did you get that included onto a FAC........