scotslad Posted November 15, 2013 Report Share Posted November 15, 2013 (edited) Alright Just looking for a bit of advice, shooting away from my own shoot this sat, and the captain there wondered if i'd mind looking after a slightly inexperienced gun for a few drives. Ideally he should off had a lesson or 2 with a proper qualified coach first. I'm confident on safety, but from wot i have been told lad is safe but struggling to hit birds which has knocked his confidence a bit. Wot are the top tips u would advise to try and help someone hit birds? I'm only talking real simple tips here not advanced stuff I'm a self taught natural shooter and probably have more bad habits than u can name, but i do tend to hit my share off game, I have not done a lot off clays. You often hear folk at the clays trying to say where the shot went but i can never see b ugger all apart from the wad which has nothing to do with where ur shot went, and to be fair i think some off them are making it up too Edited November 15, 2013 by scotslad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekers Posted November 15, 2013 Report Share Posted November 15, 2013 Alright Just looking for a bit of advice, shooting away from my own shoot this sat, and the captain there wondered if i'd mind looking after a slightly inexperienced gun for a few drives. Ideally he should off had a lesson or 2 with a proper qualified coach first. I'm confident on safety, but from wot i have been told lad is safe but struggling to hit birds which has knocked his confidence a bit. Wot are the top tips u would advise to try and help someone hit birds? I'm only talking real simple tips here not advanced stuff I'm a self taught natural shooter and probably have more bad habits than u can name, but i do tend to hit my share off game, I have not done a lot off clays. You often hear folk at the clays trying to say where the shot went but i can never see b ugger all apart from the wad which has nothing to do with where ur shot went, and to be fair i think some off them are making it up too The shot and wad do not necessarily take exactly the same line or indeed travel the same arc or distance, but the wad will commonly put you in the ball park! Which is a darn sight better than standing there and saying.. I don't have a clue where that went.... which you will also hear a lot down the clays! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted November 15, 2013 Report Share Posted November 15, 2013 If his gun doesn't fit or his mount is inconsistent then there's not a lot you can do in the time allocated, and if you're stood behind him trying to spot his shot string YOU wont be shooting. Just tell him to take his time mounting the gun and once on the bird to SWEEP through it like he's using a big brush and pull the trigger as soon as it disappears. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landrover Posted November 15, 2013 Report Share Posted November 15, 2013 shoot where it's going, not where it's been. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshwarrior Posted November 15, 2013 Report Share Posted November 15, 2013 If you can't see shot lots of people can't, and you need the right light conditions get on his shoulder and look down the rib/side of barrels as best you can, you should be able to work it out. But if his gun doesn't fit you will be peeing into the wind. Problem with natural shots you often don't know how you hit the birds what technique you use etc. so it's very hard to explain it to someone struggling. Have a google for pictures of swing through and pull ahead they may help you explain what you want him to shoot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bakerboy Posted November 15, 2013 Report Share Posted November 15, 2013 When you shoot clays you look at the target, (hard focus), the end of the barrel is in "soft focus" When you want to see where people are shooting, look at the end of the barrel "hard focus" and the target in "soft focus", if necessary close your left eye if he is right handed and vice versa if left handed, forget the wad it tells you nothing, and you will not see the shot stream. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kes Posted November 15, 2013 Report Share Posted November 15, 2013 Check his stance first - left foot slightly in front of right, both a comfy distance apart and the centre of the stance pointed at the birds. Tell him to mount the gun and move left and right - if no obvious problems, ask him how much of the bead he sees - he should see an eighth of an inch of rib and all the bead. Check he swings in a level plane and tell him to pick up the bird and follow it with the gun, pulling through and firing as the bead passes its head but to keep on swinging smoothly and steadily. Tell him its hard to get the knack but once you do you are sorted - tell him also to remember the 'sight picture'. If all thats too difficult, tell him to wait till it lands !!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotslad Posted November 15, 2013 Author Report Share Posted November 15, 2013 Cheers folks, thats my problem i just pick the gun up and shoot and to be honest have no idea how i do it. Does seem to work thou (althou not all the time and i do struggle on really high birds but don't get them over me very often). And i realise that proper coaches train for ages to get their tickets just want to try and help the boy the best i can Must admit i have never stood right on someone shoulder and really looked for the shot string. Will mibee try it if things not going well, not that bothered about pulling the trigger nowadays anyway I do know the different techniques, pull throu, maintied lead etc, but as i said with me just making my technique up as i go doesn't help. I tend just to try and look/focus on the bird eye/head and go for it I have heard most of the tips above but had totally forgot most off them so cheers Are pheasants on the ground considered 'ground game'? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul223 Posted November 15, 2013 Report Share Posted November 15, 2013 Explain that you want him to focus / concentrate on the birds and not the barrel, just like he would focus on a tennis ball if you threw one at him for him to catch, and as his hands and arms would react and extend to catch that ball naturally as the ball approached, he needs to mount the gun and shoot to catch the bird, his arms are the gun and his hands the shot You could even take a tennis ball in yer pocket, it may help him realise Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
filzee Posted November 15, 2013 Report Share Posted November 15, 2013 Bum, Belly, Beak, Bang. That's all he needs to know get that into his head and he will start hitting more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Essex Hunter Posted November 15, 2013 Report Share Posted November 15, 2013 I won't do any harm to practice following a bird with his finger from his lead hand (the one on the for-stock) as this is the one that moves the gun! The bum belly beak will make a lot of difference.... Keep the gun moving, less choke and take the bird early so if he is behind then he wont be falling over backwards with the second shot... Any notion of hard or soft focus will see the gun go back in the slip....... TEH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bakerboy Posted November 15, 2013 Report Share Posted November 15, 2013 I won't do any harm to practice following a bird with his finger from his lead hand (the one on the for-stock) as this is the one that moves the gun! The bum belly beak will make a lot of difference.... Keep the gun moving, less choke and take the bird early so if he is behind then he wont be falling over backwards with the second shot... Any notion of hard or soft focus will see the gun go back in the slip....... TEH Why? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshwarrior Posted November 15, 2013 Report Share Posted November 15, 2013 Any notion of hard or soft focus will see the gun go back in the slip....... TEH What's wrong with that it's the correct technique. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Essex Hunter Posted November 15, 2013 Report Share Posted November 15, 2013 What's wrong with that it's the correct technique. There is no correct technique......as every one is different and will respond to different methods. The pressure of a driven bird with the thought of other people watching it fly over your head is totally different than "can I see that pair again as I was not ready" Min 1: 55 sums it up http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DVKPS5aPvOc TEH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDAV Posted November 15, 2013 Report Share Posted November 15, 2013 Check his gun fit, eye dominace and stance before you peg to the first peg. Watch him take a couple of shots is he lifting his head? Stopping the gun? Suggest he sees a coach either way ideally one who can properly ***** the lad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDog Posted November 15, 2013 Report Share Posted November 15, 2013 Safety is much more important than shooting ability. Concentrate on that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bakerboy Posted November 15, 2013 Report Share Posted November 15, 2013 There is no correct technique......as every one is different and will respond to different methods. The pressure of a driven bird with the thought of other people watching it fly over your head is totally different than "can I see that pair again as I was not ready" Min 1: 55 sums it up http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DVKPS5aPvOc TEH If there is, no correct technique, why was "soft focus and hard focus so wrong that the gun would go back in the slip"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Potter Posted November 15, 2013 Report Share Posted November 15, 2013 Terry, At the risk of offending the first rule in this situation has got to be KISS (keep it simple stupid!). I would respectfully suggest that, with birds streaming overhead trying to comprehend, never mind put into practice, hard & soft focus is a step too far. In the field the above advise of :- I) Safety II) Stance III) Bum, Belly, Beak, Bang is more than enough for the newbie to concentrate on. As for gunfit, if I've understood the OP correctly he is not a gun fitter, coach, instructor etc so he both won't be qualified to ***** gun fit and even if he did what's he going to do in the middle of a field with a sound of the whistle indicating the first drive is underway. Gunfit isn't the be all and end all of successful shooting anyway, knowing where your gun shoots is!! I'm not suggesting good gun fit isn't important but most people manage to shoot up to quite a high level without having a gun fitted for them and I would imagine that is virtually 100% of game, rough and pigeon shooters. Just my two pennies worth, Mr Pottera Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snippy Posted November 15, 2013 Report Share Posted November 15, 2013 I am going out tomorrow on my first shoot of the year with a new (to me) gun that hasent been fitted to me I am also taking my 11 year old son with a new gun to him going from a 410 to a 20 bore (with light load ) my advise given to me was enjoy the day :-) (my father in law has given his day up to work a new dog ) I cant give advise on how to shoot as I am not the best at that anyway ! but I would instill in the lad to enjoy himself Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bakerboy Posted November 15, 2013 Report Share Posted November 15, 2013 (edited) Terry, At the risk of offending the first rule in this situation has got to be KISS (keep it simple stupid!). I would respectfully suggest that, with birds streaming overhead trying to comprehend, never mind put into practice, hard & soft focus is a step too far. In the field the above advise of :- I) Safety II) Stance III) Bum, Belly, Beak, Bang is more than enough for the newbie to concentrate on. As for gunfit, if I've understood the OP correctly he is not a gun fitter, coach, instructor etc so he both won't be qualified to ***** gun fit and even if he did what's he going to do in the middle of a field with a sound of the whistle indicating the first drive is underway. Gunfit isn't the be all and end all of successful shooting anyway, knowing where your gun shoots is!! I'm not suggesting good gun fit isn't important but most people manage to shoot up to quite a high level without having a gun fitted for them and I would imagine that is virtually 100% of game, rough and pigeon shooters. Just my two pennies worth, Mr Pottera Hi Mr Potter You are correct in all you say, and I am certainly not offended. I was more addressing the comment,"You often hear folk at the clays trying to say where the shot went but i can never see b ugger all apart from the wad which has nothing to do with where ur shot went, and to be fair i think some off them are making it up too " I probably did not express/explain myself very clearly. Edited November 15, 2013 by bakerboy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hillmouse Posted November 15, 2013 Report Share Posted November 15, 2013 Given that it will be rare for any two birds to follow the same line, height and speed you cannot expect to achieve a lot. I agree with Mr. Potter , (Keep It Simple Stupid) and on his first two points. Safety. Goes without saying, this comes first. Stance. Relative to where the main flow of birds comes from. (Hope there are plenty) Establish the zone most birds arrive from and pick a gun hold and kill zone. I find I get best results with novice game shots by restricting their attention to a limited zone. This is both safer and in the main, more successful. If he is moving all over trying for birds at all heights and angles, not only can it all get a bit hectic but success is harder to achieve. I use the "window" description. Describe an imaginary window frame with a horizontal bar half way up. Gun hold is on the window sill, he should have addressed the bird and judged line and speed by the horizontal and applied lead and fired at it by the top of the frame. Anything outside the window is ignored. If/when he starts getting on target with straighter birds you can broaden the window. Lead is very subjective and ones mans foot is another mans yard. If bum, belly, beak bang works stick with it. Suggest he increases or decreases lead by saying "add half of what you gave it, double what you gave it" etc. Watch for him rushing the mount and mis-mounting, lifting his head or stopping the gun. They tend to be the more common and immediately sortable ones. Good luck. It's harder than people think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Potter Posted November 15, 2013 Report Share Posted November 15, 2013 Terry, I think that there are very few people who can see the shot except in very specific circumstances (drizzly rain and the right light conditions) you may be able to learn to see the shot by using the techniques you mention but I would guess there are very few who have/can master it. I am a reasonable experienced clay shot of 25+ years and I'll hold my hands up and say that I cannot tell where someone is missing even when I'm sat on their shoulder. My mate still says to me "get behind me and tell me where I'm missing". I perch on his shoulder and concentrate on the end of his barrel in relationship to the clay and pronounce "you're miles I front of that". He cuts his lead and I tell him he's still infront (which I genuinely believe), he eventually doubles his original lead and munches the clay up!!! I'm sure he thinks I'm trying to mess with his head but I genuinely can't see. If I had a pound for every time I've been told by well meaning mates to "give it more" when I'm already missing in front I'd have enough for a Perazzi. Most experienced clay shooter think they can coach but the sad truth is that very few really can. Coaching, especially at beginner level, has very little to do with the coaches own scores and a lot to do with the coaches ability as a coach, if that makes sense. Totally different kettle of fish when coaching an already competent, experience shot up to competition winning standard though. Mr Potter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Louiej Posted November 15, 2013 Report Share Posted November 15, 2013 The you tube clip is a bit 80's, but I tried mikes technique & it helped more be far more constant http://m.youtube.com/user/Mike***********#/watch?feature=c4-feed-u&v=xfmFXDnKRmg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Louiej Posted November 15, 2013 Report Share Posted November 15, 2013 Opps try this one not the buffalo hunting!! http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=xfmFXDnKRmg&feature=c4-feed-u Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDAV Posted November 15, 2013 Report Share Posted November 15, 2013 If you want to see where you are missing you need http://tru-shot.com/ I am very very surprised anyone can see shot...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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