Canada's and the GL

[artschool]

How much damage, to what and when ?

 

Farmers have different perceptions of crop damage. I have never seen damage to crops which I would call significant from resident geese.

eating grain, defecating over crop, walking over new growth etc.

[anser2]

A couple of rocket scarers will do a better job than shooting. As for defecating over the crop they are doing the farmer good as goose droppings are rich in nitrogen which will help the crop grow.

[CharlieT]

A couple of rocket scarers will do a better job than shooting. As for defecating over the crop they are doing the farmer good as goose droppings are rich in nitrogen which will help the crop grow.

 

You have obviously never seen a goose **** !

[scolopax]

Maybe I am alone in this I have never seen a goose eating grain except that spilled on a stubble or put into a flight pond. As for a bit of **** and walking on the crop, I can hardly see that as significant damage. How many acres had to be re drilled I would wonder if this would satisfy the terms of the general license?

[islandgun]

deleted as not relevant to OP

Edited April 29, 2014 by islandgun

[Fisheruk]

 

One must differentiate between Wildfowling (sport) and pest control. Like the Woodpigeon, the Canada is on the GL because, in certain situations and for varying reasons, it conflicts with man.

The ability to control Canada numbers, by the various legal methods, means land managers can tackle the problem as and when it happens and in a suitable way. The whole point of the exercise is to reduce numbers to an acceptable level, it's not much fun having 150 upwards roosting locally and having them feed over local crops.

 

By being able to control numbers in the summer for example gives land managers the opportunity to round up and cull them when they are flightless, thus allowing them to really get to grips with cull numbers.

 

Wildfowlers must learn to view the Canada as they do the Woody, as a pest species and get away from the rather selfish view that large numbers should be maintained for the sole purpose of providing them with sport during the season.

 

+ 1

Canadas aren't daft. Often a cf round over their heads is enough to move them on and they can find that the marsh is the safest place to be out of season. The problem is when they can't fly, when they find their way onto crops with dozens of goslings they have to be dealt with. On the marsh you may not see their grazing damage, but it can be very costly as they graze sprouting crops. There's a difference from killing them just for sport and proper vermin control. IMHO

[thepasty]

I find it in interesting that wildfowlers dont see a reason/need to control Canada etc when they're doing damage or the like (which is why they're put on the GL) yet find it perfectly acceptable to shoot wildfowl in season for no other reason than they're allowed to for 'sport'.

[Penelope]

We do where needed, and licences are available via DEFRA to sort these instances out. It works, why change?

 

As anser2 says, to save money is the most likely reason.

 

I find it in interesting that wildfowlers dont see a reason/need to control Canada etc when they're doing damage or the like (which is why they're put on the GL) yet find it perfectly acceptable to shoot wildfowl in season for no other reason than they're allowed to for 'sport'.

[holloway]

I find it in interesting that wildfowlers dont see a reason/need to control Canada etc when they're doing damage or the like (which is why they're put on the GL) yet find it perfectly acceptable to shoot wildfowl in season for no other reason than they're allowed to for 'sport'.

The problems start when they are shot with the excuse of crop protection ,nothing wrong with crop protection or sporting shooting .

[Grandalf]

We will be having this same discussion about greylags in a few years if people don't start remonstrating with BASC and Natural England very rapidly.

Greylags are destined for the GL too.

See another topic under fowling for all the details and links.

[thepasty]

The problems start when they are shot with the excuse of crop protection

 

and the evidence for this happening on a scale big enough to drastically impact numbers is where?

 

Am I right in thinking these would be resident Canada staying in the UK when they should have migrated with the rest of them? Why would this not be invasive like the rabbit etc?

 

My questions are purely out of interest, I have no opinion one way or the other.

[kent]

and the evidence for this happening on a scale big enough to drastically impact numbers is where?

 

Am I right in thinking these would be resident Canada staying in the UK when they should have migrated with the rest of them? Why would this not be invasive like the rabbit etc?

 

My questions are purely out of interest, I have no opinion one way or the other.

Sorry to say it but your post shows the lack of knowledge most are making their choices on. Canada geese don't come over from Canada each year they live all over that continent called North America. They are full time residents here after being introduced hundreds of years back and do not fly back across the ocean.

[birdsallpl]

Has anyone actually witnessed Canada's being slaughtered in a mass way?

Since I posted the above no one has said they have witnessed any so called slaughter. It appears to me that a lot of emotion is being created about what could happen instead of the reality. I think what I said in an even earlier post to be true. The responsible shooter will take control of the situation anyway.

Still be interested to hear of any so called mass slaughter though

[thepasty]

Sorry to say it but your post shows the lack of knowledge most are making their choices on. Canada geese don't come over from Canada each year they live all over that continent called North America. They are full time residents here after being introduced hundreds of years back and do not fly back across the ocean.

 

 

Dont apologise, there is no shame or embarrassment caused by a lack of knowledge on a subject, that is why I ask questions, learning is one of the most enjoyable things in life... Hence my reference to being interested in the subject and wanting to understand/learn more.

 

To a person more sensitive your post could seem unnecessarily condescending but that says more about your social skills than anything else..... the tougher skinned amongst us simply see it as 'kent' and his 'special' ways.

Edited April 29, 2014 by thepasty

[thepasty]

now I've been enlightened, why should the Canada be offered any more protection than the humble rabbit?

[birdsallpl]

Dont apologise, there is no shame or embarrassment caused by a lack of knowledge on a subject, that is why I ask questions, learning is one of the most enjoyable things in life... Hence my reference to being interested in the subject and wanting to understand/learn more.

 

To a person more sensitive your post could seem unnecessarily condescending but that says more about your social skills than anything else..... the tougher skinned amongst us simply see it as 'kent' and his 'special' ways.

I think Kent is spot on. I'm sure none of us would want to offend anyone, but sometimes points have to be made. Me using the word emotion may offend some, but I believe it to be correct in this instance.

[birdsallpl]

now I've been enlightened, why should the Canada be offered any more protection than the humble rabbit?

They shouldn't be.

I think the thing is that to a lot of Wildfowlers Canada geese are still thought of as tame. It's a bit like going into someone's garden and shooting a load of kids tame rabbits that were on Grandad's allotment. There is 'it's not right' involved.

About 20 or 30 years ago I used to shoot a lot on the Humber estuary. Us Wildfowlers would not even raise the gun if a skein of Canada's flew over. They were too low not even considered wild birds (even in Season) They are now one of the main Quarry species in parts of the Humber so I'm lead to believe. Times change and they have now grown into pest proportions and need to be dealt with.

[kent]

now I've been enlightened, why should the Canada be offered any more protection than the humble rabbit?

In short re-production rates, Geese take a long while before they are sexually mature (changes with genus but many not in their first adult summer) and produce only one brood. Rabbits? well they breed like rabbits! If you think you shot every rabbit on a place one spring summer and even got to the stage were you did not even see one all winter, chances are next May they will be popping up all over the place.

[kent]

They shouldn't be.

I think the thing is that to a lot of Wildfowlers Canada geese are still thought of as tame. It's a bit like going into someone's garden and shooting a load of kids tame rabbits that were on Grandad's allotment. There is 'it's not right' involved.

About 20 or 30 years ago I used to shoot a lot on the Humber estuary. Us Wildfowlers would not even raise the gun if a skein of Canada's flew over. They were too low not even considered wild birds (even in Season) They are now one of the main Quarry species in parts of the Humber so I'm lead to believe. Times change and they have now grown into pest proportions and need to be dealt with.

Many see this tameness or even flightless as an advantage I hate to say. Geese being long lived have a good memory and with the younger birds in tow learning the ways of the world in their first winter they soon learn the score. Canadas are no dumber nor no clever than any goose, perhaps the Pinkfoot is the most wary but that just circumstance and being a sort after migrant of the winter shooting season I feel.

Sir Peter Scot described the Brent goose as the most wary of all the fowl but this last winter I had them eating zoo right at the feet of me and the dog, a few decades of protection changes any birds habits. The dog of course though they should be shot but then again dogs are not known for any higher level of thought or sportsmanship

[kent]

We will be having this same discussion about greylags in a few years if people don't start remonstrating with BASC and Natural England very rapidly.

Greylags are destined for the GL too.

See another topic under fowling for all the details and links.

I have sent my own thoughts in to BASC about their actions, its like I have woken up from a deep sleep and the world has been turned upside down

[kent]

Dont apologise, there is no shame or embarrassment caused by a lack of knowledge on a subject, that is why I ask questions, learning is one of the most enjoyable things in life... Hence my reference to being interested in the subject and wanting to understand/learn more.

 

To a person more sensitive your post could seem unnecessarily condescending but that says more about your social skills than anything else..... the tougher skinned amongst us simply see it as 'kent' and his 'special' ways.

I rarely if ever mean offence but sometimes the point needs to be clear to be made, n few words if you "go around the houses the point is soon lost"

Edited April 29, 2014 by kent

[CharlieT]

Maybe I am alone in this I have never seen a goose eating grain except that spilled on a stubble or put into a flight pond. As for a bit of **** and walking on the crop, I can hardly see that as significant damage. How many acres had to be re drilled I would wonder if this would satisfy the terms of the general license?

 

Just a small example, we have a lake on the farm which holds about a dozen or so Canadas in the spring/summer. Every year these geese and their offspring graze off around an acre of corn adjacent to the lake. Which equates to a loss of in excess of £600, imagine what the cost would be I let 100 stay there.............

 

now I've been enlightened, why should the Canada be offered any more protection than the humble rabbit?

 

I think you have hit the nail on the head. Many posting on this subject have no experience of the damage these birds can cause, a resident flock of Canadas can cause far greater damage than rabbits.............after all they are both grazers.

 

As I said in an earlier post, when I was a lad the national flock amounted to 2000 birds, the most recent count put the number at 80,000. All descendents from ornamental collections.

[kent]

Just a small example, we have a lake on the farm which holds about a dozen or so Canadas in the spring/summer. Every year these geese and their offspring graze off around an acre of corn adjacent to the lake. Which equates to a loss of in excess of £600, imagine what the cost would be I let 100 stay there.............

 

 

I think you have hit the nail on the head. Many posting on this subject have no experience of the damage these birds can cause, a resident flock of Canadas can cause far greater damage than rabbits.............after all they are both grazers.

 

As I said in an earlier post, when I was a lad the national flock amounted to 2000 birds, the most recent count put the number at 80,000. All descendents from ornamental collections.

 

I don't think Canada Geese rate with a large uncontrolled population of rabbits that can breed after only a couple of months. So you are scaring off those Dozen or so? maybe killing the odd one in a good and noisy way to make the point its not safe nesting?

 

Those Ornamental collections started hundreds of years back, making the non native argument could be levied at much UK wildlife, even Rabbits!

Edited April 29, 2014 by kent

[CharlieT]

I don't think Canada Geese rate with a large uncontrolled population of rabbits that can breed after only a couple of months. So you are scaring off those Dozen or so? maybe killing the odd one in a good and noisy way to make the point its not safe nesting?

 

Those Ornamental collections started hundreds of years back, making the non native argument could be levied at much UK wildlife, even Rabbits!

 

I was trying to point out that Canada geese, like rabbits, can cause serious financial loss. Both, if left uncontrolled, will cause serious financial loss and the ability to control them should be available to land managers, not a bunch of whining wildfowlers who want them preserved for their personal sport.

 

And no, I don't drive them off or shoot them, the lake gives me much pleasure throughout the year. I like to see the Canadas and all the other wildlife about and for that reason I am prepared to accept the financial loss.

 

Nothing better than casting a fly on the lake on a May evening and watching the geese, kingfishers, coots and swallows going about their business.

[kent]

So your point is? I think your quite wrong about wildfowlers just wanting to preserve them for sport. When your out there you learn a lot about all the birds and how hard it is to survive in such an environment. Watching them change into the summer love struck dummies can warm the heart and soul of many and yet make others see an easy target, such is the difference in people. I have Canadas breeding here at present and for the first time greys, they are dead safe even in the winter. You do right to enjoy them, that is after all why are ancestors brought them over