Brancaster

[hifly]

I know that one of the large estates on the norfolk coast now flight the geese over decoys and that is the reason they do not settle on the estury roosts, the estate in question will deny this but at morning flight you can hear the geese getting shot at inland over estate fields and the keepers freely admit to it and I bet the guns are not using non toxic, just another way of making money for the very wealthy estates.

[6.5x55SE]

Yes and I know of 2 keeper's doing it behind there bosses back's. One of which I've reported for being/shooting Geese he has NO rights to shoot on

[Jono 4]

Yes and I know of 2 keeper's doing it behind there bosses back's. One of which I've reported for being/shooting Geese he has NO rights to shoot on

would that be the one not far from you as the goose flys and his mate further up the hill?

[hifly]

you got it, mate of mine is a farmer up that way and it has been known that a driven day starts with a flight on the geese over decoys and the estate have the front to say they don't shoot the geese they must think we are stupid

[DNT]

So the takeover of another clubs shooting by Kent Wildfowlers continues, today notification issued by Norfolk County Council, East Coast Sporting Ltd are requesting the transfer of a quarter share of the same right as held by the wild spaces fund, both have common registered address, and common directors according to companies house, but East Coast Sporting was incorporated January 2014. Not happy with taking the first quarter share it seems it's free game to buy more to take over the shooting from another club, where will it end when you have to be a member of Kent Wildfowlers to go in England, it appears they will stop at nothing

Jono 4, if individuals wish to transfer their common rights to any other individual, club or group exactly where is that taking shooting from another club? We have examined the ownership from across the Country of other Common Rights holders in Norfolk in previous posts. Many of these rights are not being exercised at present. Anybody can and have bought them when available. What's the problem?

[Jono 4]

If you look back through my posts DNT you will see why I have a problem with these going from an individual to a club, I do not feel the need to repeat them as my reasons have not changed. I still believe in doing what they have the Kent Wildfowlers Association is morally and ethically corrupt, the persuit of further rights, has only strengthened my views, and their actions should cause a great deal of concern to other clubs throughout England and Wales, no shooting rights can be seen as safe as both Brancaster and Burnham club have/are finding out no doubt.

[anser2]

 

But I guess Kent will never learn or just do not care what the remainder of the wildfowling community think about them.

 

I see they have just had a press release and their empire is taking more shooting away from local people in the Washes. What is worrying they same people who have this grasping it all mindset seem to have such a big sway in BASC to the extent that have set up a seperate company conected to buy shooting within BASC but not managed by BASC staff.

Edited January 1, 2015 by anser2

[DNT]

 

But I guess Kent will never learn or just do not care what the remainder of the wildfowling community think about them.

 

I see they have just had a press release and their empire is taking more shooting away from local people in the Washes. What is worrying they same people who have this grasping it all mindset seem to have such a big sway in BASC to the extent that have set up a seperate company conected to buy shooting within BASC but not managed by BASC staff.

I'm sorry Anser 2 I have no idea what connection your talking about with a company within BASC. When you say we don't care what the Wildfowling community think of us, forgive me I didn't realise you were the spokesperson for all Wildfowlers. Judging from the correspondence I have had with other Wildfowlers they seem to be pleased that someone has the gumption to acquire Wildfowling that they can access and stop land going out of use or just not being available for shooting full stop. At Brancaster we have acquired a I/4 of a right from a private individual which gives us 1 gun on the marsh, hopefully soon there will be a second also from a private individual. If that is damaging the shooting of a club, please tell me where, when a gun is being replaced with a gun and instead of the same person visiting the marsh on each occasion our system will allow several different people to visit over the season. You accuse us of grab all at any cost (which we strongly dispute), well I accuse you and a few others of selfish sour grapes and it is obvious to the many others who have contacted me that they agree with that view. You've been asked before in other posts and not answered, well I ask again, what are you and your associates doing for the future of Wildfowling, not what you may have done in the past, But Right Now?

 

[Konnie]

Only time will tell. But I do think a list of all present KWA committee members, and heads & their people inside BASC should be printed off by all other wildfowlers, so as when wildfowling comes to a end. As KWA shrinks back due to lack of funds and leaves our marshes to be taken over by RSPB etc. We will know who is responsible. This is a long game but we should all remember where the END stared.

[anser2]

DNT Quote” I'm sorry Anser 2 I have no idea what connection your talking about with a company within BASC.”

 

Really for some reason somehow I do not believe you DNT. This is from my friend Jono

 

A quick Google of 'East Coast Sporting Ltd' http://www.endole.co.uk/company/08858058/east-coast-sporting-ltd throws up the below listed names of connected companies. So the take over of another clubs shooting by Kent Wildfowlers continues, today notification issued by Norfolk County Council, East Coast Sporting Ltd are requesting the transfer of a quarter share of the same right as held by the wild spaces fund, both have common registered address, and common directors according to companies house, but East Coast Sporting was incorporated January 2014.

 

The Wide Spaces Fund is part of Kent Wildfowlers and has been used to purchase shooting rights for the club. East Coast Sporting Ltd is listed as connected with ''Connected Companies


Kent Wildfowlers Association Limited
Globe House, Eclipse Park, Sittingbourne Road, Maidstone, ME14 3EN

Chattenden Syndicate Limited
8 Overcliffe, Gravesend, Kent, DA11 0HJ

Wild Spaces Fund
35 The Boundary, Tunbridge Wells, TN3 0YA

Basc Direct Limited
Marford Mill Chester Road, Rossett, Wrexham, LL12 0HL

Faversham Oyster Fishery Company
16 Mill Street, Maidstone, ME15 6XT''

 

Your chairman is a director of Basc Direct Limited. Out of interest I see a director of the chattenden Syndicate Lt has the same initials as you .

 

So do you now claim you do not know anything ?

Edited January 1, 2015 by anser2

[anser2]

Quote” You've been asked before in other posts and not answered, well I ask again, what are you and your associates doing for the future of Wildfowling, not what you may have done in the past, But Right Now?

 

I have never to my knowledge not answered any questions , though I do not read every post. On the contrary there have been many occasions when repeated questions from myself and many other forum members when you have at best evaded the question and more often maintained a stony silence.

 

You know only two well what I have done for wildfowling in the past and present , just read the back posts. Alas following a recent stroke and the fact I am no longer a young man I can not be as active as I have been in the past in wildfowling.

 

Well to answer your question in the last few years I have raised thousands of pounds for land purchase for several clubs by offering shooting days for their sporting auction. Only a couple of weeks ago I guided a auction winner on my marsh and shortly will be taking another on my shoot. This will add a couple of hundred more pounds into the kitty.

 

 

Quote “well I accuse you and a few others of selfish sour grapes and it is obvious to the many others who have contacted me that they agree with that view.”

 

 

I have no need to claim sour grapes as anyone who regularly reads my posts will know I have all the wildfowling I need ( without having to muscle in on the ground of others ). So what have I to the jealous of Kent WA for ?

 

What I do hate though is when a club or individual sets themselves up as the saviour of wildfowling ( before you dispute that just read some of the remarks you and some of your club officials have made over the past few years , for example in one quote you claimed you were going to bringing Norfolk fowlers kicking and screaming into the modern fowling world. As your club chairman said “ they are looking to take on shooting where ever it suits their business plan”

 

Lets get it straight Kent WA buys up wildfowling rights where it suits them for its members not as has been claimed in the past to “ save wildfowling”. What you seem unable to grasp in doing so local fowlers shooting comes under threat , they cannot match your buying power , and close and friendly relations with conservation organisations become strained putting even more stress on the local fowlers shooting .

 

O I forgot I do not think you beleve in local fowling do you.

[andrewluke]

DNT Quote” I'm sorry Anser 2 I have no idea what connection your talking about with a company within BASC.”

 

Really for some reason somehow I do not believe you DNT. This is from my friend Jono

 

A quick Google of 'East Coast Sporting Ltd' http://www.endole.co.uk/company/08858058/east-coast-sporting-ltd throws up the below listed names of connected companies. So the take over of another clubs shooting by Kent Wildfowlers continues, today notification issued by Norfolk County Council, East Coast Sporting Ltd are requesting the transfer of a quarter share of the same right as held by the wild spaces fund, both have common registered address, and common directors according to companies house, but East Coast Sporting was incorporated January 2014.

 

The Wide Spaces Fund is part of Kent Wildfowlers and has been used to purchase shooting rights for the club. East Coast Sporting Ltd is listed as connected with ''Connected Companies

 

 

Kent Wildfowlers Association Limited

Globe House, Eclipse Park, Sittingbourne Road, Maidstone, ME14 3EN

 

Chattenden Syndicate Limited

8 Overcliffe, Gravesend, Kent, DA11 0HJ

 

Wild Spaces Fund

35 The Boundary, Tunbridge Wells, TN3 0YA

 

Basc Direct Limited

Marford Mill Chester Road, Rossett, Wrexham, LL12 0HL

 

Faversham Oyster Fishery Company

16 Mill Street, Maidstone, ME15 6XT''

 

Your chairman is a director of Basc Direct Limited. Out of interest I see a director of the chattenden Syndicate Lt has the same initials as you .

 

So do you now claim you do not know anything ?

i've just done a bit of googling myself,

 

http://www.companydirectorcheck.com/david-nigel-thorpe

 

http://www.ccdni.com/director-alan-leslie-jarrett-3

[IEH]

There is one nagging question in my mind about this whole saga - if KWA have nothing to hide in acquiring these rights then why have they apparently conducted the transactions in the names of the Wild Spaces Fund and now East Coast Sporting Ltd?

[DNT]

i've just done a bit of googling myself,

 

http://www.companydirectorcheck.com/david-nigel-thorpe

 

http://www.ccdni.com/director-alan-leslie-jarrett-3

Being a Director of Companies is not a crime, I said I have no idea of any Company within BASC linked to KWCA and that's because there isen't one. I do not know the role of BASC Direct, but I believe there are several Directors from within BASC. As for all other companies, if you do a basic search for Directors all of their directorships will show. That's the law of the land. Are you so naive to believe that if anything untoward was going on we would allow ourselves to be so open. If that were the case we would use wives or friends to throw people off the scent. All of the Companies you have searched are genuine trading Companies with boards of Directors including independents where required. Let's not start the paranoia again.

[Konnie]

Seems like a smoke and mirrors club. we should have people with the knowledge and business skills to unravel this and put it in laymans terms. It will soon be at the point where all the other clubs will have to sit and talk about saving their leases from the beast that is known as KWA or what ever it is calling itself for a given transaction.

[Konnie]

Being a Director of Companies is not a crime, I said I have no idea of any Company within BASC linked to KWCA and that's because there isen't one. I do not know the role of BASC Direct, but I believe there are several Directors from within BASC. As for all other companies, if you do a basic search for Directors all of their directorships will show. That's the law of the land. Are you so naive to believe that if anything untoward was going on we would allow ourselves to be so open. If that were the case we would use wives or friends to throw people off the scent. All of the Companies you have searched are genuine trading Companies with boards of Directors including independents where required. Let's not start the paranoia again.

It all may be just on the right side of the law but in other respects I would refer to it as insider trading, as you as you are able to know clubs info as they ask for help from BASC. Conflict of interest also pops too.

[anser2]

Quote "Are you so naive to believe that if anything untoward was going on we would allow ourselves to be so open."

 

The trouble is what most wildfowlers call being untoward and what you regard as untoward are two different things.

 

No apology then for claiming I do not reply to your questions then! No surprise here then. DNT I have told you what personaly what i have recently done to help wildfowling. Over the past few years I have raised money for a number of clubs that I have no intention to shoot on ie East of Scotland \Devon WA, so I ask you the same question what in recent years have you personaly done to aid wildfowling that does not involve any gain to yourself or your own club.

Edited January 2, 2015 by anser2

[TriBsa]

Being a Director of Companies is not a crime, I said I have no idea of any Company within BASC linked to KWCA and that's because there isen't one. I do not know the role of BASC Direct, but I believe there are several Directors from within BASC. As for all other companies, if you do a basic search for Directors all of their directorships will show. That's the law of the land. Are you so naive to believe that if anything untoward was going on we would allow ourselves to be so open. If that were the case we would use wives or friends to throw people off the scent. All of the Companies you have searched are genuine trading Companies with boards of Directors including independents where required. Let's not start the paranoia again.

 

Perhaps not illegal. But this does look ever more fishy.

 

The Directors of BSAC Direct are:

 

• PHILIPPA MARY BURSEY, secretary, 2 Jul 2014-
• ALAN LESLIE JARRETT, director, 2 Jul 2014-
• MICHAEL JOHN LAWRENCE SHERMAN, director, 2 Jul 2014-
• ALISDAIR TROUP, director, 2 Jul 2014-

So you have the Chairman and Vice Chairman of the British Association for Shooting and Conservation (BASC) forming a Private Limited Company in the name of BASC Direct that is only answerable to it's shareholders, using BASC's address. What better vehicle for land/rights aquisition could you have, with Land Owners thinking they are dealing with the true BASC. It would appear that BASC is now being run as a private feifdom.

 

There is the law yes, but there are also standards of behaviour for elected officials who should; I beieve, be beyond reproach.

 

Edited January 2, 2015 by TriBsa

[Ajarrett]

My first post on Pigeon Watch!

 

Throughout the last few months I have read some good level-headed commentary, and also a great deal of greedy, selfish, hypocritical piffle from some people who should know better. They know who they are (and mostly seem to reside in Norfolk!). I will not deal with any KWCA matters as DNT is more than capable of doing so.

 

My reason for posting is to give clarity to the BASC Direct Ltd. question.

 

As I said on the wildfowling forum, BASC Direct was set up to deal with non-mutual trading (and if people don't know what that is I suggest they find out). It has not been set up to acquire land, neither will it do so. BASC can already do so in its own right if it so chooses, and has done so over the years with various stalking schemes etc. It has four Directors and one shareholder. That shareholder is BASC, which is managed through its elected (by the membership) Council and our full-time staff.

 

That means that the four directors must (and will) at all times serve the shareholder - BASC.

 

BASC Direct Ltd will enter into trading options from time to time as opportunities occur, all of which will be designed to provide additional resources to service our existing and growing membership. As BASC enters 2015 it has a membership of over 140,000. It is a large and influential organisation which provides an excellent service to members, and as a result benefits the wider shooting community - most of which does not pay a subscription to BASC but benefits from its work

 

Hope that helps, and to save people time I will not be responding to unfounded tittle-tattle. The facts are clearly set out above.

 

Happy New year to all

 

Alan

 

 

[TriBsa]

My first post on Pigeon Watch!

 

Throughout the last few months I have read some good level-headed commentary, and also a great deal of greedy, selfish, hypocritical piffle from some people who should know better. They know who they are (and mostly seem to reside in Norfolk!). I will not deal with any KWCA matters as DNT is more than capable of doing so.

 

My reason for posting is to give clarity to the BASC Direct Ltd. question.

 

As I said on the wildfowling forum, BASC Direct was set up to deal with non-mutual trading (and if people don't know what that is I suggest they find out). It has not been set up to acquire land, neither will it do so. BASC can already do so in its own right if it so chooses, and has done so over the years with various stalking schemes etc. It has four Directors and one shareholder. That shareholder is BASC, which is managed through its elected (by the membership) Council and our full-time staff.

 

That means that the four directors must (and will) at all times serve the shareholder - BASC.

 

BASC Direct Ltd will enter into trading options from time to time as opportunities occur, all of which will be designed to provide additional resources to service our existing and growing membership. As BASC enters 2015 it has a membership of over 140,000. It is a large and influential organisation which provides an excellent service to members, and as a result benefits the wider shooting community - most of which does not pay a subscription to BASC but benefits from its work

 

Hope that helps, and to save people time I will not be responding to unfounded tittle-tattle. The facts are clearly set out above.

 

Happy New year to all

 

Alan

 

 

 

Alan, apologies for my original post above now deleted. Thank you for the explanation.

 

Welcome to the forum.

 

Tom

[anser2]

Still no word from DNT then! He seems good at asking questions , ignoring the direct answers he gets, but rater poor at answering questions directed at himself.

[DNT]

Anser2 sorry for delay in getting back, family bereavement took me offline. I have had the good fortune to be involved with several aspects of sport clubs from cricket, fishing, game, vermin and of course Wildfowling. Whilst I will freely admit the vast amount of time has gone on work relating to the clubs I am a member of (after all that would be the job of a Committee member), I would not say all of that work was self interest of the particular club. In fact I would say that a large amount would be to further the sport and make it available to as many people as possible and not necessarily with the group I'm working with. Now we all seem to have beat our chests and I hope accepted that we all work for the future of all sports we are involved in I hope we can find some good from each other's points of view. It is difficult to accept change, but it is even more difficult to accept unwarranted criticism and deliberate misinformation and accusations which are completely unfounded. I trust Alan's post settled the BASC comments and I am pleased to see one gentleman big enough to apologise and withdraw his post. But I feel this gentlemans comments and others came about from deliberate mischief making from as Alan put it "people who should know better". I have said on many occasions KWCA is not trying to take away anyone's shooting and if you examine the facts has never done so. We do not have a secret agenda to take over Norfolk or anywhere else for that matter. We do not have an inside link to special information within BASC or any other organisation. We do pursue land opportunities but not at the expense of a club that still holds the shooting rights. We will do all in our power to stop land leaving shooting. We will offer assistance to others where we can in an effort to help them hold onto land or expand. We will do all we can to make Wildfowling and other shooting available to as many as possible whilst working within the constraints of numbers wishing to partake in the sport in a given area. Finally we will not apologise to a few mischief makers who seem to be more intent on their exclusive holdings than the future of the sport in general.

[Elphinlad]

Anser2 sorry for delay in getting back, family bereavement took me offline. I have had the good fortune to be involved with several aspects of sport clubs from cricket, fishing, game, vermin and of course Wildfowling. Whilst I will freely admit the vast amount of time has gone on work relating to the clubs I am a member of (after all that would be the job of a Committee member), I would not say all of that work was self interest of the particular club. In fact I would say that a large amount would be to further the sport and make it available to as many people as possible and not necessarily with the group I'm working with. Now we all seem to have beat our chests and I hope accepted that we all work for the future of all sports we are involved in I hope we can find some good from each other's points of view. It is difficult to accept change, but it is even more difficult to accept unwarranted criticism and deliberate misinformation and accusations which are completely unfounded. I trust Alan's post settled the BASC comments and I am pleased to see one gentleman big enough to apologise and withdraw his post. But I feel this gentlemans comments and others came about from deliberate mischief making from as Alan put it "people who should know better". I have said on many occasions KWCA is not trying to take away anyone's shooting and if you examine the facts has never done so. We do not have a secret agenda to take over Norfolk or anywhere else for that matter. We do not have an inside link to special information within BASC or any other organisation. We do pursue land opportunities but not at the expense of a club that still holds the shooting rights. We will do all in our power to stop land leaving shooting. We will offer assistance to others where we can in an effort to help them hold onto land or expand. We will do all we can to make Wildfowling and other shooting available to as many as possible whilst working within the constraints of numbers wishing to partake in the sport in a given area. Finally we will not apologise to a few mischief makers who seem to be more intent on their exclusive holdings than the future of the sport in general.

Let me add my support to DNT and let me also declare an interest, as I am a KWCA committee member, a trustee of Wild Spaces Fund and company secretary of East Coast Sporting Ltd. I am also a solicitor so don't get legal with me unless you really know your stuff.

 

There are no behing the scenes dealings, insider trading or anything like that between KWCA and BASC. See also Alan Jarrett's post above. To use a common phrase -"end of"!

 

KWCA membership is open to all genuine fowlers and you don't have to live in Kent. We aren't a closed shop unlike some, as access to our membership isn't a matter of having to know someone already in the club or living locally or waiting to fill dead mens shoes and all our members have equal access to all of our shooting grounds.

 

Wild Spaces Fund has always been associated with KWCA since KWCA set it up as their conservation arm. A few years ago, we turned it into a registered charity and it now operates at arm's length from KWCA with independent trustees handling anything where KWCA is the other party. Its objects are conservation but of course friendly to wildfowling and we conservation manage 6 reserves in Kent which are owned by KWCA. We also intend to carry out relevant conservation activities at Brancaster, though as it is common land, those activities obviously can't be of the same nature/intensity as the 6 reserves which are exclusive to us. WSF has its own website and Facebook page.

 

East Coast Sporting Ltd is in effect a wholly owned subsidiary of KWCA - as KWCA is a club and thus not a legal person in its own right it can't be a member of ECS itself, so there are nominee shareholders for the KWCA.

 

In answer to Anser2, I've donated to various fundraising activities of BASC in recent years for the benefit of wildfowling across the country and I've also donated money of my own to Wild Spaces Fund and GWCT, as well as various angling bodies for conservation activities.

 

KWCA intends to exercise the shooting rights associated with the rights of WSF and ECS consistent with what an individual holder would do, so you aren't going to be flooded with KWCA members shooting there.

 

With regard to the commons, I've now seen loads of applications to transfer rights or shares in rights via official notifications from Norfolk County Council and I guess others of you who are also common rights holders will have seen them too. There seems to be a flourishing activity in transferring and recently one of those I saw involved a transfer from a rights holder giving an address in Australia. If you have any legitimate complaint about us in Kent acquiring rights (and I don't think you can have any beyond sour grapes), you should be going nuclear about someone in Australia having rights there! Would you rather the rights that are put on the market are bought by true wildfowlers, or would you rather have a bunch of rich City boys or even the RSPB as co-owners?

[harrycatcat1]

Let me add my support to DNT and let me also declare an interest, as I am a KWCA committee member, a trustee of Wild Spaces Fund and company secretary of East Coast Sporting Ltd. I am also a solicitor so don't get legal with me unless you really know your stuff.

 

There are no behing the scenes dealings, insider trading or anything like that between KWCA and BASC. See also Alan Jarrett's post above. To use a common phrase -"end of"!

 

KWCA membership is open to all genuine fowlers and you don't have to live in Kent. We aren't a closed shop unlike some, as access to our membership isn't a matter of having to know someone already in the club or living locally or waiting to fill dead mens shoes and all our members have equal access to all of our shooting grounds.

 

Wild Spaces Fund has always been associated with KWCA since KWCA set it up as their conservation arm. A few years ago, we turned it into a registered charity and it now operates at arm's length from KWCA with independent trustees handling anything where KWCA is the other party. Its objects are conservation but of course friendly to wildfowling and we conservation manage 6 reserves in Kent which are owned by KWCA. We also intend to carry out relevant conservation activities at Brancaster, though as it is common land, those activities obviously can't be of the same nature/intensity as the 6 reserves which are exclusive to us. WSF has its own website and Facebook page.

 

East Coast Sporting Ltd is in effect a wholly owned subsidiary of KWCA - as KWCA is a club and thus not a legal person in its own right it can't be a member of ECS itself, so there are nominee shareholders for the KWCA.

 

In answer to Anser2, I've donated to various fundraising activities of BASC in recent years for the benefit of wildfowling across the country and I've also donated money of my own to Wild Spaces Fund and GWCT, as well as various angling bodies for conservation activities.

 

KWCA intends to exercise the shooting rights associated with the rights of WSF and ECS consistent with what an individual holder would do, so you aren't going to be flooded with KWCA members shooting there.

 

With regard to the commons, I've now seen loads of applications to transfer rights or shares in rights via official notifications from Norfolk County Council and I guess others of you who are also common rights holders will have seen them too. There seems to be a flourishing activity in transferring and recently one of those I saw involved a transfer from a rights holder giving an address in Australia. If you have any legitimate complaint about us in Kent acquiring rights (and I don't think you can have any beyond sour grapes), you should be going nuclear about someone in Australia having rights there! Would you rather the rights that are put on the market are bought by true wildfowlers, or would you rather have a bunch of rich City boys or even the RSPB as co-owners?

 

Dont worry I am not out to argue with you as to be honest I am not as up to speed with the situation as some are.

I will point out though as an observer the language and terms that are used by your gang are inflamatory to say the least and dont in my opinion help your cause.

 

Regards

 

H

[Jono 4]

Thank you for your clarification of the position of the east coast sporting ltd and Kent Wildfowlers etc, my "gripe" as you put it has never been that of the legal position of doing what the kwca have done it's always been the moral one, you have forced your club onto ground which currently has two clubs shooting the ground, would kwca have done this if they were BASC affiliated? through using a legal not moral right. I will declare my interest in that I have a share, I don't live in the village I live within 30 mins of the marsh, anyone could have bought rights, in the same way I did, I shoot the marsh usually 6 times a season, I am one individual suddenly you now have a club with control of 2 1/4 shares, which will be accessed by 500 members so I suspect Kwca will excercise thier rights a lot more than I an individual. How can this be good for the wildlife of the site and a reasonable sustainable usage? As for you sight of loads of transfers, I have seen 3 since you bought your first set and 2 of them have been yours, and as for the transfer to someone in Australia, you forgot to mention that it was under the will in 1977 for the husband and subsequent will for the wife in January 2014 transfer, and the Australian gentleman has the same family name, as the two deceased and the other recipient is a female living local so it's fair to assume a son and daughter inherited their fathers rights, so please don't **** up my back and tell me it's raining.