Brancaster

[ayano3]

I so wish there was a like button on topics . there is so many thing's on this thread .. Gentlemen can we keep it on track .. And keep the school yard antics . for play time ..

 

And Don't forget silly season is almost over 🙌 and we can all go back to our love ..

 

Then perhaps there will be something decent to read about on the wildfowling section..

 

Remember guys play nice 😁 ..

LIKE

[DNT]

As usual on this thread we (KWCA) are the villains in some peoples eyes. Anser 2 quotes "You are acquiring wildfowling for your club or large Syndicate". Well I thought that was one of my jobs. Let's be honest can a club of 500 + members and OPEN FOR MORE really be compared to a small exclusive group hell bent on keeping everybody else out. I think not. Over the last couple of weeks we have obtained two more pieces of shooting that have not been shot over for years. Two pieces of land bought back into sport that can now be shot over by yes our members and their guests. That's what we're about. I've said before we get many approaches from landowners and yes other clubs and we have to make a business/ethical decision on how best to proceed. We are not despite what some are saying looking to take over ground that is already under management, but if we are approached or land comes onto the market we may very well be interested. We have recently also been approached by two other clubs asking if we intended to proceed on two transactions in their areas. Both clubs declared an interest, they are very well managed inclusive clubs, and we respectfully withdrew from discussions to give them a clear run. Forgive me but that doesn't sound like a land grabbing greedy club to me. Obviously I can't name those clubs, particularly because discussions over the land are ongoing, and I'm sure many will say it's not true. But importantly we know it's true and so do they. Work with us or at the very least don't obstruct us, and most people find dealing with us a very useful experience. Of course in the end it's up to the individual clubs and their officers to decide what's best for them, however we won't stand aside where there is poor practice and a chance that land will slip away from the wildfowler in the true sense of the word.

[mudpatten]

Lots of great humerous banter there lads.

 

Now back to the hard work.

 

There`s a lot of talk about "local" on this thread.

 

Can someone please begin to put some flesh on the bones of the concept of keeping things "local".

 

Is it something measured in miles, does it correspond to county boundaries?

 

If we`re to continue to castigate KWA we need to have a clear system in place so that other clubs don`t inadvertantly fall foul of it.

 

Please, how does "local" work in the context of wildfowling club shooting acquisition?

Edited August 25, 2014 by mudpatten

[DNT]

We think the concept of local is all but gone in the true sense of the word. If a piece of land is on the market and the local County club/ clubs are not in a position to hold it with or without help then it's upto others to stop it from being lost to shooting, whether that be the role of BASC or a stronger club is up for debate I guess. In addition if an approach is made direct to a so called outsider club, we would say it's up to them to proceed or not. We think what is wrong is for anybody to actively take shooting from a club where it is being well managed with some form of inclusiveness. Remember once it's lost it's usually lost for good. Not sure that completely answers your question, but it forms the basis of KWCA thinking. We have watched land disappear over the years where small local clubs could not stop the onslaught and that's what it's been around the Country from the Conservation brigade. We in our small way are trying to redress things, but even the mighty KWCA can't match the funding of the big conservation boys. We must all do what we can local or otherwise.

[bobshooting]

Lots of great humerous banter there lads.

 

Now back to the hard work.

 

There`s a lot of talk about "local" on this thread.

 

Can someone please begin to put some flesh on the bones of the concept of keeping things "local".

 

Is it something measured in miles, does it correspond to county boundaries.

 

If we`re to continue to castigate KWA we need to have a clear system in place so that other clubs don`t inadvertantly fall foul of it.

 

Please, how does "local" work in the context of wildfowling club shooting acquisition?

Local is an imprecise term, we're all British, so I suppose we're all local in a way.

 

The argument here I think is that control of a marsh should stay, as far as is practically possible, with people who live close enough to exercise such control.

 

Lots of clubs around the Wash offer membership/day tickets to anyone in Basc, but day to day control remains, ''local'' and in the hands of unpaid members.

 

Remember that Common Rights in Thornham are tied to a property and cannot be sold separately, so control rested with people living in the village, albeit managed for them by the Club and open to be shot to anyone living in the village or immediate area.

 

I think that if I lived in Kent, I wouldn't be happy if Thornham or Brancaster Wildfowl Clubs bought/leased shooting Rights near me.

 

Them offering me membership wouldn't do much to ameliorate the situation, but, fair play, is to their credit.

 

However, we still feel like a one-legged man in an **** kicking competition, Kent have 500 members we had 50 and let's not talk about resources; it breeds angry resentment.

 

I don't believe Kent are some evil empire, bent on duck domination, they're Wildfowlers,(we're not bright enough to be really evil), but so am I and I want my shooting back.

 

I'm not really sure if that's answered your question, or that I've said anything I haven't said 20 times already, sorry mate, I can't see a high-horse without sanctimoniously leaping on it.

 

One week to go...........anyone seen my thigh boots? I'm sure I left them in the front room, but the wife says she hasn't seen them, sigh. Good Luck to you all, even Kent, lol.

[anser2]

DNT , Quote “ Let's be honest can a club of 500 + members and OPEN FOR MORE really be compared to a small exclusive group hell bent on keeping everybody else out. I think not.”

 

There a lot more than just 500 wildfowlers in Norfolk DNT. You just do not seem to realise they are there. This small exclusive group you are talking about consists of over 1200 club and several thousand individual fowlers, o; I forgot you do not believe individual fowlers should hold their own ground do you.

 

Quote “I’ve said before we get many approaches from landowners and yes other clubs and we have to make a business/ethical decision on how best to proceed. We are not despite what some are saying looking to take over ground that is already under management, but if we are approached or land comes onto the market we may very well be interested.”

 

According the clubs committee and their landlord indeed your club officially or unofficially have contacted the landlord. The landlord did not approach your club and from what an officer of the club concerned said you were sent said away with a flea in your ear.

 

Quote “however we won't stand aside where there is poor practice and a chance that land will slip away from the wildfowler in the true sense of the word.

 

Since when has it been up to you to decide what poor practice is or is not . You and your club seem to setting themselves up to be the judge over all wildfowling matters. And you talk about being democratic . Your club is but a tiny fraction of the wildfowling community. You have every right to deal with matters within your own club , but if another club is run poorly them its up to the club concerned not you and your club. If they make a hash over their lease then again its up to them not you.

Edited August 25, 2014 by anser2

[Barls2-9-12]

Where you have clubs such as kent there is always going to be some winners and some losers down to there actions. but on a whole there intentions are for the majority to benefit from there actions by preserving shooting for wildfowlers for generations to come.

 

As bobshooting has stated he feels he has lost his shooting to an outside club which is sad. I guess that the positive which can be taken by this is that the shooting is still available to all those who wish to shoot it rather than being in a private syndicate owned by a group of wealthy London based shooters or similar or even worse the rspb.

 

DNT is never going to convert those on here who object to the methods of Kwca land purchase. As they are seen by a few as the enemy, I can see why a certain number of people feel this way to a certain extent but the bigger picture is that they are ensuring shooting will be made available to wildfowlers for years to come rather than, just a select few for a short period of time then inevitably falling into the hands of non shooting organisations.

 

I have grown up in Norfolk and had to move down to the south east due to work not by choice so I joined the Kwca to enable me to continue wildfowling. Due to where I lived and grew up in Norfolk a lot of these clubs would never of let me joined because I fell out of there catchment area so how can this be fair. But I could of become a member of the Kwca and then gone and shot the Medway Swale even though these areas were 3 times the distance from these non inclusive clubs in Norfolk.

 

We live in a ever changing world where the cost of living costs more and more each and every year this filters down to wildfowling and all other types of shooting. It would be nice to live next to wells or Thornham but we can't all be there can we due to a number of factors.

 

I wouldn't mind if the shooting stayed in the control of what ever club local or not but as long as the shooting was inclusive to all who wish to have a go.

 

Any how good lunch to all for the 1st and the rest of the season.

[bobshooting]

Barls, there are 3 things I would ask you:

 

Why are you wishing me a good lunch in your last line?

 

How could you bear to leave Norfolk?

 

Have you seen my stuffing thigh boots?

 

Only joking, it's all getting too heated; there is sense in some of the things you say and it's good to hear differing opinions on this, or any subject.

[Barls2-9-12]

Barls, there are 3 things I would ask you:

 

Why are you wishing me a good lunch in your last line?

 

How could you bear to leave Norfolk?

 

Have you seen my stuffing thigh boots?

 

Only joking, it's all getting too heated; there is sense in some of the things you say and it's good to hear differing opinions on this, or any subject.

Hard with predictive text on the old phone lol.

 

Well I would still be there if there had of been enough work but had to look else where.

 

And to be honest I am not sure if I would go back even if I had the chance

[DNT]

Anser 2, I regret to say I have no idea what land/club your talking about. We have not made any enquiries for land in Norfolk or anywhere else that is under lease to an existing club to the best of my knowledge. We talk to a lot of people about management of land and I think I would remember being sent packing in the way you claim we were. On the other matters once again we are miles apart, I have no problem with individual Wildfowlers having their own ground, on their own or with friends. What I have a problem with is a selected few calling themselves a club whilst having restrictions that stop anyone but a selected few joining. Then I hear that some outsiders do manage to get in because they have friends in high places, usual story of not what you know but who, and you have the nerve to ask me about democracy. When you say why do we make comments like best practice etc and who are we to judge. Well let me tell you. Best practice in our opinion is not complicated, it's very simple. Don't masquerade as a club when your a syndicate, don't jump into bed with the people that would stop our sport, unless it's a last resort. Be transparent and equitable at all times and help others into the sport. If small clubs around are struggling, help if you can and if you can't, don't stand in the way of those that can/will local or not. Has I said it's not a long or difficult list to run with, in fact it could almost be a guide to the correct way, with a few tweaks to run a truly inclusive club. You talk about the numbers of Wildfowlers and clubs in Norfolk, but that's part of the problem, just like Essex where we also have helped other clubs increase their shooting whilst at the same time expanding ourselves. You end up in competition with each other and then there's more resentment and mistrust. The larger clubs get stronger and the small ones hang onto the death losing more and more shooting to the ever increasing demand for land both for conservation bodies and industrialisation. Do you really believe the likes of NE won't get around to you boys in Norfolk sooner or later? From some posts on here they've already started long before we arrived. It is probably true that our arrival may have accelerated their interest, but we have the strength and the backing to take them on and make sure they are transparent and fair in their dealings. We were told that part of the failed deal put forward by the Wildfowlers and their agent in the Thornham situation included buffer zones to be put in place where there were none before, that's your idea of NE etc looking after the little club is it. Of course there has got to be some give and take in any discussions ( don't we know it)' but don't preach about great relations with all these bodies, when you know only to well that at best they tolerate what they would have difficulty in stopping completely. Make no mistake wild fowling would stop tomorrow along with many other types of shooting if the conservation lobbies get their way. If you think I'm wrong fair enough, but take a look at the land that been lost around the Country and then the restrictions that have been put in place in many others and then hand on heart tell me KWCA are the real enemy of wildfowling anywhere. I would add that we also get on well in general with several local conservation officers from various groups, but it's the decision makers at the top who call the shots.

 

Bob, do I understand correctly you've invited me for lunch when I'm in the area? You must be careful, I'm not sure if anyone will speak to you again. But don't worry membership is growing as we gain more shooting in the shires and I expect many would welcome a friendly local wildfowler. Being on the spot I can't imagine why you haven't joined so that you can once again take advantage of the sport at Thornham and now Brancaster and hopefully others (or perhaps I can). Anyway all the best for the season to you and everybody else, and sorry, no I didn't take your waders whilst on reconnaissance in the area. I think you should look nearer to home for the answer.

[Big Mat]

Do you really believe the likes of NE won't get around to you boys in Norfolk sooner or later?

 

We know they will come after us eventually, but what we do not want is that timescale being made shorter due to the actions of cowboys. From what i have read and heard elsewhere Kents actions are a considerable risk to our sport due to upsetting the balance between wildfowling and conservation which clubs have worked long and hard to gain.

 

However this won't make the slightest bit of difference as kent and their chairman do not give a toss

Edited August 25, 2014 by Big Mat

[6.5x55SE]

DNT this is a serious and genuine question. Do Kent offer Day/Guest Tickets on ALL their shooting site to non Kent members

[DNT]

We know they will come after us eventually, but what we do not want is that timescale being made shorter due to the actions of cowboys. From what i have read and heard elsewhere Kents actions are a considerable risk to our sport due to upsetting the balance between wildfowling and conservation which clubs have worked long and hard to gain.

 

However this won't make the slightest bit of difference as kent and their chairman do not give a toss

How wrong you are Mat, if we didn't give a toss we wouldn't even bother to explain our thinking to you, we'd just ride roughshot over everybody we could. We wouldn't bother to offer assistance to other clubs. In fact I wouldn't even bother to come on the Forum and answer questions. So yes we do give a toss and calling us cowboys won't help relations improve.

[Konnie]

just a thought as KWA is like a wildfowling business has any thought been given to scaling such a thing down if needs find, as they have pushed rent prices up in other areas I assume that they will be then taken on by the likes of rspb and lost forever. All because one club had grand ideas its a legacy that will outlive yourself.

[DNT]

just a thought as KWA is like a wildfowling business has any thought been given to scaling such a thing down if needs find, as they have pushed rent prices up in other areas I assume that they will be then taken on by the likes of rspb and lost forever. All because one club had grand ideas its a legacy that will outlive yourself.

What's the alternative, sit back have no ideas and fiddle while they pick everyone off at their leisure. It's been going on for years and we have fought them all the way in Kent. Now we try to tackle them elsewhere, that's wrong. Many of my friends have said for years, in the end shooters will finish themselves, if it's not failing to recognise the true enemy it will be the lead issue or something else yet to appear over the horizon. We must get the facts and the science to defeat or at least hold back the tide of lost land. In answer to your question, no we have given no thought to scaling back because whilst there's still one piece of foreshore to fight for we'll be there to the bitter end. But if some of you don't soon wake up or stand aside for those with the ideas and drive to see them through, I suggest that in not that long a period the last sport shooter in the UK turns out the light as they leave. And some would say serve us right.

[DNT]

DNT this is a serious and genuine question. Do Kent offer Day/Guest Tickets on ALL their shooting site to non Kent members

We are discussing that point at the moment. In theory most areas are open for our Try Wildfowling Scheme which gives a taster day to a newcomer with one of our guides. However in reality whilst dealing with BASC guests (same scheme in reality), inter club guests and the above mentioned Try Wildfowling Scheme, not to mention the new members intake requiring guides, we have only so many guides and they are very busy. So obviously we have to restrict any extra permits/areas to a manageable level. This varies from season to season.

[6.5x55SE]

Thanks DNT. So if a non member of Kent is BASC member and he/she knows a Kent member they could get a Day Ticket on ANY of Kents ground/lease provided all tickets for said area not gone and they are accompanied by Full Kent member all is good !!!!!!! Thanks in advance

[DNT]

Thanks DNT. So if a non member of Kent is BASC member and he/she knows a Kent member they could get a Day Ticket on ANY of Kents ground/lease provided all tickets for said area not gone and they are accompanied by Full Kent member all is good !!!!!!! Thanks in advance

Yes that is correct, subject to our maximum two guest permits per person per season rule.

[motty]

Yes that is correct, subject to our maximum two guest permits per person per season rule.

Two guests per person per season? That sounds a little stingy!

[DNT]

Two guests per person per season? That sounds a little stingy!

Two guests per person per season? That sounds a little stingy!

[DNT]

Two guests per person per season? That sounds a little stingy!

Let me explain in more detail, each KWCA member is entitled to 4 guest permits per year, but they can only take the same person twice. The reason for this is simple, although we are pleased for members to take a friend or visiting family member or anybody else for that matter, it still needs to be fitted in with all of the other types of guests I mentioned in an earlier post. Also the main reason for the guest system in the first place is to give friends and family of members a taster of Wildfowling. We then hope that they will join the association. Members guest permits cost £15 each and 2 are for seawall shooting and 2 for the islands/saltings.

[6.5x55SE]

DNT so to me that seems like you're pushing people to join Kent. As how anybody can get a feel for a Marsh in 2 days !!!!! EG I have a ticket for say Shellness decide know not for me then get a Ticket for another site yep I'd like to get to know this Marsh unless I pay £242 as a full member my learning curve is over also that £242 doesn't insure I'll get tickets for my chosen Marsh. So do you not think this unfair !!!! On coastal shooting I don't know of onther Club with restrictions like Kent to members or BASC Members. Any fowler worth his salt knows it takes time to learn a Marsh and use Day tickets to see if the Marsh and Shooting on offer is for them before joining that Club

IMHO often the more areas you can shoot don't offer value for money when carrying restrictions as Kent do. I'm all for any club giving chances to non members BUT fair chances of getting to know a Marsh safely over time with Full club members and not 1-2 days depending on where you choose on Kent ground. For £150 IF I choose that route I could get 20 days on Day tickets of numerous coastal clubs !!!!!! Where I believe I'd be a safer experienced user of that Marsh than in 2 days.

[Barls2-9-12]

DNT so to me that seems like you're pushing people to join Kent. As how anybody can get a feel for a Marsh in 2 days !!!!! EG I have a ticket for say Shellness decide know not for me then get a Ticket for another site yep I'd like to get to know this Marsh unless I pay £242 as a full member my learning curve is over also that £242 doesn't insure I'll get tickets for my chosen Marsh. So do you not think this unfair !!!! On coastal shooting I don't know of onther Club with restrictions like Kent to members or BASC Members. Any fowler worth his salt knows it takes time to learn a Marsh and use Day tickets to see if the Marsh and Shooting on offer is for them before joining that Club

IMHO often the more areas you can shoot don't offer value for money when carrying restrictions as Kent do. I'm all for any club giving chances to non members BUT fair chances of getting to know a Marsh safely over time with Full club members and not 1-2 days depending on where you choose on Kent ground. For £150 IF I choose that route I could get 20 days on Day tickets of numerous coastal clubs !!!!!! Where I believe I'd be a safer experienced user of that Marsh than in 2 days.

I am a member of Kent and I understand your point of the restriction as I have friends who live in other parts of the country and find the two day rule to be restrictive but I guess you have to draw the line somewhere.

You have to look at the point that these days are guided days if you come via the basc permit scheme route of you are accompanied by an experienced member who knows the marsh well.

And if you are a guest of friend, that person in most case has a good idea of where to go and when as they are a full member.

If it was open to an unlimited number of days or a higher amount of guest tickets you would have to find enough experienced members to take these people out which can sometimes be very difficult. There is also a country level membership if you come from further a field where there is no kent ground to shoot this allows for 6 days shooting for a fee of around 50-60 pound plus you’re insurance.

Your point about learning a marsh in two flights or two days shooting is impossible but in my opinion to learn some of the marshes I shoot you would not learn them if you had 6 permits a season as they are rather complex. So your best bet is to become a member and learn the marsh at your own leisure. If you wanted to spend £150 on day tickets that is also an option but for another £30 plus your BASC fee you could become a full member of Kent and have unlimited shooting.

Most times of the year you can get a permit for your desired area you wish to shoot with the only exception being the 1^st of September as this is a busy period. I can’t remember a time when I was not able to get a permit for an area I wished to shoot with exception for the 1^st, and I go on average 2-3 days a week all season long I can only speak from my own experience. There also has to be some method of control on some areas to prevent over shooting, who would want to turn up to a marsh what was packed out and over shot, I wouldn’t some areas are open on a month long permits and there is no restriction as these areas can cope with a large number of guns.

[6.5x55SE]

Come on Barns anyone with common sense would know full membership offers best value But this not the case with Kent. As 2 guests tickets you HAVE to part with £242 to continue to explore so your hand is being forced by Kent to be a member where as other clubs it's YOUR CHOICE. Also as stated IF I or others chose eg Thornham there is no guarantee of getting a ticket. I not a member of Kent but do know several members very very well if one has just spoken to me he is very very experienced in Wildfowling his comments on Thornham. !!!!!! Shambles and a lottery to get a Ticket !!!!!! Now I've had and still have a ambition to shoot a Sheppey Whitefronts and waiting are various Kent members to take me If they feel the chance is on But unless I achieved my goal in 2 tickets I've got to pay £242 to attempt to achieve my goal. As for full car parks well when that first Wink Wink of Pinks is heard most car parks are full always have been and always will. I take you was not a Shellness 3-4 years ago when 1200 Whitefronts turned up boxing day !!!!! Kent never stopped that place being over run it guns did it. Unfortunately fact of life Geese brings the crowds and in most cases one helluva lot of Jealousy FACT

[Barls2-9-12]

My mate is a member of Rockland and you can only take the same guest once and thats it unless it has changed in the last couple of years?

 

I think that you can only take the same member twice per season or is that your understanding already or do you see it as being twice then that’s your lot until you join?

there is currently no restriction on the shellness permit area as it is on a monthly ticket due to the size of the area and like you said when the geese come in the guns turn out, but to be fair that area holds a lot of members and is there local ground to them, there is normally always a few guns there. I was not there when they turned up 3-4 years ago. I did go last season but to no avail, there were a few last season but as they say it’s a wild goose chase. getting a ticket to thornham it can be hard to get them on a Saturday but normally you can get them when you want them if you don’t leave it to the last minute, it can sometimes be difficult when your booking for 3 guns but on a whole i do normally get a ticket when I want one.

 

Come on Barns anyone with common sense would know full membership offers best value But this not the case with Kent. As 2 guests tickets you HAVE to part with £242 to continue to explore so your hand is being forced by Kent to be a member where as other clubs it's YOUR CHOICE. Also as stated IF I or others chose eg Thornham there is no guarantee of getting a ticket. I not a member of Kent but do know several members very very well if one has just spoken to me he is very very experienced in Wildfowling his comments on Thornham. !!!!!! Shambles and a lottery to get a Ticket !!!!!! Now I've had and still have a ambition to shoot a Sheppey Whitefronts and waiting are various Kent members to take me If they feel the chance is on But unless I achieved my goal in 2 tickets I've got to pay £242 to attempt to achieve my goal. As for full car parks well when that first Wink Wink of Pinks is heard most car parks are full always have been and always will. I take you was not a Shellness 3-4 years ago when 1200 Whitefronts turned up boxing day !!!!! Kent never stopped that place being over run it guns did it. Unfortunately fact of life Geese brings the crowds and in most cases one helluva lot of Jealousy FACT