Obediance Training

[Gareth]

Thanks for this guide, it's helped me learn and understand a lot of things.

 

Just one question though, what age would you recommend starting this training from?

 

I started with Jack my lab/springer cross when he was 8 weeks old, he is now 10 weeks old. He has grasped sit (with corrections needed every now and again, and plenty of treats), and mostly got 'here', but I don't know if I should try any other commands too, such as lay down and heel.

 

I think I may have started him too young, but I will carry on with sit and here because he's getting quite good. I don't want to force too much on him if he is too young, what would you suggest?

 

Thanks,

Gareth

[new to the flock]

I start my pups between 8 and 10 weeks with these basics. Just remember to keep your lessons short 15 to 20 minutes, and to keep them fun. There is nothing wrong with letting them be a pup, just have them as a well mannered pup with basic training.

 

NTTF

[Gareth]

Thanks NTTF!

 

Jack is very good at sit and here now, and is almost laying down on command. This is almost all thanks to your guide!

 

I Have another question for you, probably silly; If I were to give the dog a command from a distance, e.g. shouting 'drop' across a field to him, how do I release him again or call him back to me? Would it be as simple as telling him 'alright' so he can carry on as normal or 'here' to get him to come over to me?

 

I saw you mentioned that you should never call a dog to you after a 'freeze', which got me thinking about the above question. Why should you not do that?

 

Many thanks,

Gareth

Edited January 6, 2011 by Gareth

[Woodcock Magnet]

May i express a view! aimed at a beginner, After aquiring your pup and just letting it grow up through it's puppy hood stage, that's just playing with it as to speak, and until such an age and time when it starts it's walking out on a lead stage. Could I recommend that you read, Training the rough shooters Gundog by Peter Moxon (my bible) I have found this book trains you the handler so you can then train your dog. Obedience must be gained before any training in the field can commence. When the time comes to do some basic training a big mistake occurs by a lot of people(in my opinion anyway)? The handler makes their pup 'sit' in an open space, then they walk away backwards a few feet from the dog, the dog is bemused but stays? then the mistake happens....You, unwittingly but intentionally..Call's the pup up to you!!! this in my book is the worst thing you can do. You seem to be happy that the pup did what you wanted it to do, then you try it all over again, the next time the pup is clever and anticipates your call to come and as you walk away again backwards the second time the pup thinks I'll just go to him and he will be pleased, Answer then, is no, your not happy, I didn't call you did I, then it all kicks off does't it. What you should do...Always...Is make the pup sit, walk away as much as you dare without your pup moving off it's sitting position, then walk back to your pup and make a big fuss of it. In other words you are on the way to making your pup...STOP..and NOT GO. Over the training periods of time, your pup will stay where ever you tell it to sit until you go back to it to releave it from it's sitting position. I am not a dog trainer in any sence of the word, but believe me, it works for me and my dog works with me as a partner and we are definately as one in the shooting field. Soz this was heavy going,Just offering my opinion, why not. Good Luck with your gundogs training. :good:

[captainhastings]

I will post this in another part of the forum

Thanks

Edited December 25, 2011 by captainhastings

[dadrew]

Would it be OK if I cross posed this training program to another forum that I go on please?

[Cranfield]

You can post a weblink to it, but I don't think you should "cut and paste" it.

[ashuk87]

Awsome advice, I work away from home but love to shoot when i do get home im thinking of getting a springer but wont be able to train the dog daily, only in blocks i.e weekends, what should i do ??

 

I must add i want to be fair to the dog.

[new to the flock]

ashuk87,

 

Is there someone else at home through the week that could work the dog?

[ashuk87]

My mrs will look after the dog during the week, take it for walks etc what do u think i should do ?? I already have a gsd and my mrs has done a good job with him but he's no working dog, we love dogs so we just want to make sure that this could work before we get one , i do want to work it and train it myself. what do you think

[new to the flock]

I would suggest your Mrs, takes on the obediance training through the week. Bringing you up to speed on the weekends so that you stay consistant with her, and you work on the field training during the weekend.

 

Do not expect the field training to go as quickly as if you were working him/her 5 days a week, but take your time and make it fun.

NTTF

[overandunder2012]

great thread

[atbh61]

The sit and stay are the same thing,why would you want your dog to sit and not stay?

Now thinking backwards as I call it.The dog way to teach this is walk you dog out in the field (all training is off the lead) and keep going till he has run enough to feel that he has to wait for you. At this point a little way from you he will sit down to wait for you (you must watch your dog) at the moment he goes to the sit position pip the whistle and lift your hand to the signal position. Now walk towards him and tell him he is a good dog when you get to him.

Now, See what you have done your dog has told you when to pip.He is not worried because you are backing away from him and he is told he is a good boy when he is in the position that you want to teach him.

The distance will grow as he grows and all done without a hand or a treat.

[Cranfield]

The sit and stay are the same thing,why would you want your dog to sit and not stay?

Now thinking backwards as I call it.The dog way to teach this is walk you dog out in the field (all training is off the lead) and keep going till he has run enough to feel that he has to wait for you. At this point a little way from you he will sit down to wait for you (you must watch your dog) at the moment he goes to the sit position pip the whistle and lift your hand to the signal position. Now walk towards him and tell him he is a good dog when you get to him.

Now, See what you have done your dog has told you when to pip.He is not worried because you are backing away from him and he is told he is a good boy when he is in the position that you want to teach him.

The distance will grow as he grows and all done without a hand or a treat.

There are many times when you will ask a dog to "sit", but remain with him.

You only want him to "sit and stay", when you intend leaving him.

 

FYI, nttf is a top working dog trainer from Canada, he can be trusted to be right all of the time.

[atbh61]

There are many times when you will ask a dog to "sit", but remain with him.

You only want him to "sit and stay", when you intend leaving him.

 

FYI, nttf is a top working dog trainer from Canada, he can be trusted to be right all of the time.

So when you are staying with him is he not staying where he is? Also a dogs concept of time is not the same as ours so from the moment his bum hits the grass he is staying so the stay word is not needed. Do you have a whistle pip for stay? so sit means stay till I ask you to do something other than that.

With regard to someone being a top trainer and always being correct. Not so many years ago so called "top Trainers" were telling us to hit dogs and press the backside down to get them to sit. The only top trainer is your Dog.

[Cranfield]

If you tell your dog to sit and stay with him, he is inclined to remain seated.

However, if you tell him to sit and then walk away, his natural instinct is to follow you.

Thats where the "stay" instruction comes in.

 

If you believe differently, then thats fine.

[atbh61]

If you tell your dog to sit and stay with him, he is inclined to remain seated.

However, if you tell him to sit and then walk away, his natural instinct is to follow you.

Thats where the "stay" instruction comes in.

 

If you believe differently, then thats fine.

so you have a whistle or hand signal for stay?

[labstaff]

Personally I don't use the stay command either, I agree with atbh61 that sit is sit until another command is given, however I don't think stay is wrong either. If you feel more comfortable/confident using the sit and stay command then that extra comfort/confidence will be passed to the dog, its horses for courses really.

[PERCE]

If you tell your dog to sit and stay with him, he is inclined to remain seated.

However, if you tell him to sit and then walk away, his natural instinct is to follow you.

Thats where the "stay" instruction comes in.

 

If you believe differently, then thats fine.

If I sit a dog up & it sets off to follow me as I walk away, I do not reinforce it's bad behaviour by giving it another command ie stay. I take the dog back to the point that it misbehaved at & make sure it knows I'm not happy. I then give the sit command again & walk away. Obviously I'm doing this with a dog that has been taught to sit where it's told until further command, there's a long chain of training events to happen before you can sit a dog up & walk away from it.

 

Whilst atbh61 as gone at things in a bull at a gate fashion, I can agree with him that some of the pinned advice is not fantastic. Until now I've never bothered reading an awful lot of it but having done so I see several techniques that I certainly wouldn't be doing with anything I own & I certainly wouldn't be recommending to many of the first time dog trainers that ask questions on this forum.

[darren m]

The sit and stay are the same thing,why would you want your dog to sit and not stay?

Now thinking backwards as I call it.The dog way to teach this is walk you dog out in the field (all training is off the lead) and keep going till he has run enough to feel that he has to wait for you. At this point a little way from you he will sit down to wait for you (you must watch your dog) at the moment he goes to the sit position pip the whistle and lift your hand to the signal position. Now walk towards him and tell him he is a good dog when you get to him.

Now, See what you have done your dog has told you when to pip.He is not worried because you are backing away from him and he is told he is a good boy when he is in the position that you want to teach him.

The distance will grow as he grows and all done without a hand or a treat.

 

 

atbh61 - sorry but i dont think you realise how much knowledge as a collective we have on this forum , a lot of us have been training dogs for a lot of years .

 

i agree sit is sit ( do not move until commanded )

for a spaniel i use hup ( which means sit and stay ) or 1 blast of the stop whistle or both .

 

alas i dont get the bit about teaching the sit or sit /stop whistle by letting your dog decide wondering up front.

 

we need spaniels to hunt close and not free run too much or they will for ever be out of range , if i had to wait for the dog to choose to feel he had gone on enough and that it must be time to sit and wait for you so i could enforce the stop whistle -- well , that would be a long walk

[sako751sg]

If you tell your dog to sit and stay with him, he is inclined to remain seated.

However, if you tell him to sit and then walk away, his natural instinct is to follow you.

Thats where the "stay" instruction comes in.

 

If you believe differently, then thats fine.

Absolutely spot on fella.Maybe these threads should contain pictures for the hard of learning.

[kent]

I tried this but I still find "stay" very usefull. If the dog is stood (like in the truck) I can say "stay" to prevent early disembarkation if it looks less than steady while getting my kit out, if its laid out in the hide and tries to wiggle to a different location I can correct him by saying "no, stay" As far as a dogs mind goes a little snaking is still laid down, so why not make it crystal what you require?

 

Yes, sit means sit but to a dog that associates the movement of sit with lowering its rear end "stay" has its uses. To my dogs "stay" means stop there sit or lie even stand but don't you move from that spot. I don't always use it as the dog soon learns the score and a low raised hand at waist level or even a certain look means the same once conditioned. Just like pointing at my toes means come here and sit down there is nothing wrong with using extra or alternative / additional commands (as long as you are consistent and your dog understand that which is being asked).

 

If I am walking through wet ground or water I can command "stay" and the dog will stop in whichever posture he likes (which is unlikely to be sitting). What do you do if it only gets "sit"?

 

As for the stop whistle that means Stop I am about to give you another command or directional help, so stop look at me is the requirement. I care little if the retriever chooses to sit every time (they aint going to sit in 12ft of water are they now?)

Edited September 25, 2013 by kent

[rossymcg]

There are many times when you will ask a dog to "sit", but remain with him.

You only want him to "sit and stay", when you intend leaving him.

 

FYI, nttf is a top working dog trainer from Canada, he can be trusted to be right all of the time.

[rossymcg]

No one is right all the time especially when it comes to training dogs. I'm sure NTTF will be the 1st to admit that,

Everything he says makes perfect sense but it's not the way I do it but we'll get the same results.

 

There are many times when you will ask a dog to "sit", but remain with him.

You only want him to "sit and stay", when you intend leaving him.

 

FYI, nttf is a top working dog trainer from Canada, he can be trusted to be right all of the time.

[BoonYNWA]

I've just finished the first day of training with my 13 month old JRT & she's already a completely different dog compared to when she woke up. She's done especially well with the heel command. Only problem I've got is that she wont leave my side whilst on the lead so teaching the recall command may be a little difficult.

 

I can't recommend this enough and can't wait to see what my dog's like after a couple of weeks.