kobidog Posted July 1, 2014 Report Share Posted July 1, 2014 Im 18 and have never held a FAC before just a SGC for about 4 years. I was hoping to apply for an FAC to get both a .17hmr for rabbits and .223 for muntjac and fox, however i'm abit confused would I apply for both of these seperately or in the same application? I have also heard that it can be hard to get granted a larger caliber like .223 without having had a smaller caliber such as a .17 or .22 for a few years, is this true? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saddler Posted July 1, 2014 Report Share Posted July 1, 2014 My first FAC at age 17 had about 10 slots, inc. pistols and semi auto rifles I'd not class .223 as a large caliber round, so put it down along with whatever else you may need in the next 5 years. Expect to possibly get knocked back on one or two...with me I'd been using .303s for 5 years in the cadets. Guess what on my list was pulled as not ok with them? Yip...the .303 Make sense? Nope Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fenboy Posted July 1, 2014 Report Share Posted July 1, 2014 You apply for both on the one application , some forces are not keen on allowing what they see as inexperienced shooters having the larger calibres so you may be refused the 223 or have a mentoring condition put on your ticket. You also need to put down what moderators you want on your application . Also consider if 223 is big enough , as if you want to start shooting deer bigger than muntjac and CWD you will need a bigger rifle I think . I am no expert and perhaps someone else will give you different advice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kobidog Posted July 1, 2014 Author Report Share Posted July 1, 2014 Ok thanks, and yeah I did wonder whether I would be granted a larger caliber but I thought having a SGC for a while might help me on that...and yes I would possibly be interested in shooting fallow in the not too distant future however I guess it would be even harder to get a .243 than something smaller for just fox and muntjac. Also would I have had to have passed a DSC or something like that for fallow? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robbiep Posted July 2, 2014 Report Share Posted July 2, 2014 When I applied for my FAC, I put down for 22LR and 223 - as I also shoot target, both to be conditioned for target and vermin. FEO was happy for the LR, but required some time out with more experienced CF users to grant vermin on the 223. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J_Edwards Posted July 3, 2014 Report Share Posted July 3, 2014 I'm 20, and was I granted a SGC, .22 FAC Air Rifle, .17HMR, and .223 on first attempt, no conditions (still closed ticket obviously). We have the land, and issues with vermin and foxes, and I explained that I had been shooting since I was 8 years old, and demonstrated to the FEO knowledge of ballistics, effective ranges, and safe shots, which I had researched beforehand when selecting appropriate calibres. When I was applying, a man in my village told me that you won't get an FAC without having a SGC for a couple of years, to effectively get your foot in the door, but that's nonsense. My force tends to like .223 and .243 for fox, but .243 and above for deer. You may aswell go for .243 and kill two birds with one stone, but your force might have a different attitude towards calibres. .223 is much more powerful than it's rimfire counterparts, but it's not a "large" calibre. I don't really know how the paperwork side of things work, but I've never heard of "mentoring" conditions until I started to use this forum, my force just might not be a fan. I hope it goes well, but my advice is to read up on ballistics of your centerfire calibres, trajectories, and plan where the safe shots are on your land. Take it by the horns, and show that you're responsible, safe, and have the adequate knowledge to use centerfire rifles, rather than just nodding and agreeing. Good luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rim Fire Posted July 3, 2014 Report Share Posted July 3, 2014 Ok thanks, and yeah I did wonder whether I would be granted a larger caliber but I thought having a SGC for a while might help me on that...and yes I would possibly be interested in shooting fallow in the not too distant future however I guess it would be even harder to get a .243 than something smaller for just fox and muntjac. Also would I have had to have passed a DSC or something like that for fallow? No you don't have to have a DSC for Fallow or any other Deer but it would help maybe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Berettacocker Posted July 3, 2014 Report Share Posted July 3, 2014 My friends 18yr old son has been doing a bit of paid stalking in Norfolk for the past year using estate rifles, and is well hooked! Well he just applied for his FAC in .243 with deer on his conditions, and was told he would need to do his dsc1 first. Thought this was out of order as he has shot over a dozen deer now, ( red, fallow, roe and muntjac ) . So I'd say his been mentored already. Anyway his mad keen and booked his dsc for this weekend, so good luck Jordon! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shootgun Posted July 3, 2014 Report Share Posted July 3, 2014 My friends 18yr old son has been doing a bit of paid stalking in Norfolk for the past year using estate rifles, and is well hooked! Well he just applied for his FAC in .243 with deer on his conditions, and was told he would need to do his dsc1 first. Thought this was out of order as he has shot over a dozen deer now, ( red, fallow, roe and muntjac ) . So I'd say his been mentored already. Anyway his mad keen and booked his dsc for this weekend, so good luck Jordon! There is no need for DSC mate, is just nonsense... i've got .270 at my first application and no one ask about any DSC... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saddler Posted July 3, 2014 Report Share Posted July 3, 2014 There is no need for DSC mate, is just nonsense... i've got .270 at my first application and no one ask about any DSC... Aye - true - though I have heard that some forces are wanting the DSC1 for fox shooting!! Maybe the initials from DSC are too complex for the poor dears to understand... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Berettacocker Posted July 3, 2014 Report Share Posted July 3, 2014 There is no need for DSC mate, is just nonsense... i've got .270 at my first application and no one ask about any DSC... I know mate, but what can you do? All constabularies have different ideas ( ideas they make up as they go! ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saddler Posted July 3, 2014 Report Share Posted July 3, 2014 I know mate, but what can you do? All constabularies have different ideas ( ideas they make up as they go! ) ...yet they ALL have to work to the same Home Office Guidelines Strange that, innit? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shootgun Posted July 3, 2014 Report Share Posted July 3, 2014 ...yet they ALL have to work to the same Home Office Guidelines Strange that, innit? Post of the day! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scobydog Posted July 3, 2014 Report Share Posted July 3, 2014 There is no need for DSC mate, is just nonsense... i've got .270 at my first application and no one ask about any DSC... Same here, 270 first time no questions about dsc just had stalks booked in advance, 2 iirc with John at YDS, feo rang him to check and all good. S Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Berettacocker Posted July 3, 2014 Report Share Posted July 3, 2014 Same here, 270 first time no questions about dsc just had stalks booked in advance, 2 iirc with John at YDS, feo rang him to check and all good. S and that's how it should be! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kobidog Posted July 12, 2014 Author Report Share Posted July 12, 2014 (edited) Im filling out my application now and was thinking I might aswell put down .243 and just see what they say, is this a good idea? I have already put down .22 rimfire, .17hmr and .223 centerfire so thought it might look abit excessive putting down 4 rifles on a first application, especially when I only plan on getting 2. I've put down .22 and .17hmr because I am undecided with the 2 and have put down .223 for fox and muntjac. I would ideally like a .243 as fallow are numerous on land and I dont want to be buying another rifle in a couple of years time, but I feel that applying for 4 rifles at 18 would just look stupid Edited July 12, 2014 by kobidog Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redgum Posted July 12, 2014 Report Share Posted July 12, 2014 There is no need for DSC mate, is just nonsense... i've got .270 at my first application and no one ask about any DSC... If they tell you that they want DSC1 then you need to do it, ok its not a legal requirement but remember who is giving you the condition on your license at its at their discretion. Its not a legal requirement of the police to give everyone a rifle, you have to prove good reason to possess and they will judge you on your merits. I've heard all this bravado about telling the Firearms all about the law but at the end of the day what's the point and if you know little about deer then the course is well worth it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted July 13, 2014 Report Share Posted July 13, 2014 Nobody will be able to show you a situation were it is safe to fire a .223 rem and not a .243 win, if challenged ask them to demonstrate were that situation occurs and record their response. Although in favour of DSC1 myself it was never meant or intended to form part of licencing and has little to do with fox shooting other than the short safety test and next to nothing on night shooting when most people are chasing foxes, that is a whole different ball game that few have ever been able to do legally on deer. My opinion the shooting orgs did this to us by demonstrating, inviting police staff on days and basically to put it bluntly "pitching" the concept as they are also the training provider that earns revenue from it, I still think training is good but should never be taken as a guarantee of competency and once its forced onto the candidate it looses a lot of its effect (the candidate effectively just wants to pass not to begin his / her learning chain) The best trick is feed firearms just enough info and no more, every thing you say extra over the required to strengthen your case actually gives them a chink to get their claws into, if you are in BASC etc speak to their firearms dept for advice Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moorvale55 Posted July 13, 2014 Report Share Posted July 13, 2014 +1 with Kent, "just enough info and no more". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redgum Posted July 13, 2014 Report Share Posted July 13, 2014 Nobody will be able to show you a situation were it is safe to fire a .223 rem and not a .243 win, if challenged ask them to demonstrate were that situation occurs and record their response. Although in favour of DSC1 myself it was never meant or intended to form part of licencing and has little to do with fox shooting other than the short safety test and next to nothing on night shooting when most people are chasing foxes, that is a whole different ball game that few have ever been able to do legally on deer. My opinion the shooting orgs did this to us by demonstrating, inviting police staff on days and basically to put it bluntly "pitching" the concept as they are also the training provider that earns revenue from it, I still think training is good but should never be taken as a guarantee of competency and once its forced onto the candidate it looses a lot of its effect (the candidate effectively just wants to pass not to begin his / her learning chain) The best trick is feed firearms just enough info and no more, every thing you say extra over the required to strengthen your case actually gives them a chink to get their claws into, if you are in BASC etc speak to their firearms dept for advice That's about the size of it Kent but the 223 to 243 issue is more of what you intend to shoot rather than where. I meet so many new shooters who believe 243 is the holy grail and they haven't' really 'arrived' until they have progress to something with a large rifle primer. Pushing for a 243 win seems to be the order of the day for a newbie,' I want it for fox but one day might shoot a deer' is I want and not good reason to possess. Get what you need, what you have good reason to possess and what land/species you have permission to shoot, if you have rabbits, fox, and fallow then you should get .22lr, hmr, 243, or maybe change the 243 for a 223 and 308 which is a better combination for fox and fallow, but you will need to include a letter of permission from the land owner stating the species. Unless you have experience with deer then you will need some sort of mentoring or training regardless so legal or not its a good thing. Its frustrating starting off and we all naturally want to run before we can walk but patience is a good virtue to have. I remember getting angry and frustrated with the Firearms department but looking back on it they have only been doing their job as best they can. And as for arriving, well that won't happen until you have shot a running moose in minus 20 degrees with a 50calibre from the shoulder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted July 13, 2014 Report Share Posted July 13, 2014 Im filling out my application now and was thinking I might aswell put down .243 and just see what they say, is this a good idea? I have already put down .22 rimfire, .17hmr and .223 centerfire so thought it might look abit excessive putting down 4 rifles on a first application, especially when I only plan on getting 2. I've put down .22 and .17hmr because I am undecided with the 2 and have put down .223 for fox and muntjac. I would ideally like a .243 as fallow are numerous on land and I dont want to be buying another rifle in a couple of years time, but I feel that applying for 4 rifles at 18 would just look stupid If you have 'good reason' for any calibre then put it down, but there's a good chance your FEO will ask why you have applied for each specific calibre, and I'm afraid 'because I'm undecided' isn't 'good reason'. If it's rabbits you have in mind for the rf's then personally I'd choose the .22, and as for the cf I'd go straight for the .243 for fox and fallow, and not bother with the .223. You can of course, apply for them all, so long as you can show good reason for each calibre. As regards experience, then some forces require mentoring if you can show no level of knowledge or experience, some don't (though these are becoming rare) and others stipulate DSC qualification. Regardless of legal requirements,whatever your police force stipulates then you will have to comply, as none of the shooting organisations can or will oppose mentoring, and certainly not DSC as they have a vested interest in supplying this qualification. Good luck, and let us know how you get on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redgum Posted July 13, 2014 Report Share Posted July 13, 2014 If you have 'good reason' for any calibre then put it down, but there's a good chance your FEO will ask why you have applied for each specific calibre, and I'm afraid 'because I'm undecided' isn't 'good reason'. If it's rabbits you have in mind for the rf's then personally I'd choose the .22, and as for the cf I'd go straight for the .243 for fox and fallow, and not bother with the .223. You can of course, apply for them all, so long as you can show good reason for each calibre. As regards experience, then some forces require mentoring if you can show no level of knowledge or experience, some don't (though these are becoming rare) and others stipulate DSC qualification. Regardless of legal requirements,whatever your police force stipulates then you will have to comply, as none of the shooting organisations can or will oppose mentoring, and certainly not DSC as they have a vested interest in supplying this qualification. Good luck, and let us know how you get on. That just about hits the nail on the head nice and clearly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Essex Hunter Posted July 13, 2014 Report Share Posted July 13, 2014 If you have 'good reason' for any calibre then put it down, but there's a good chance your FEO will ask why you have applied for each specific calibre, and I'm afraid 'because I'm undecided' isn't 'good reason'. If it's rabbits you have in mind for the rf's then personally I'd choose the .22, and as for the cf I'd go straight for the .243 for fox and fallow, and not bother with the .223. You can of course, apply for them all, so long as you can show good reason for each calibre. As regards experience, then some forces require mentoring if you can show no level of knowledge or experience, some don't (though these are becoming rare) and others stipulate DSC qualification. Regardless of legal requirements,whatever your police force stipulates then you will have to comply, as none of the shooting organisations can or will oppose mentoring, and certainly not DSC as they have a vested interest in supplying this qualification. Good luck, and let us know how you get on. That is a second + 1 from me....Also look through the guide lines as a lot of answers to questions you may be asked are in there.... TEH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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