What are the magical qualities of a 28g ?

[30-6]

As per title a lot of threads on here seem to adour their little 28g. So what is so magical about them ?

 

I think i have read something about a longer shot string before. But also all chokes supposed to throw the same pattern in all gauges.

 

So why do people favour the little 28g probably choked very tight, isn't more lead in the air better ?

[welshwarrior]

The patterns on mine are cleaner and more even than most guns in any gauge in the same price range, I don't shoot it with tight choke 1/4 and 1/2 or 3/8 tightest I go is 3/4 for December pheasants.

 

It's light fast handling but still smooth. For me the vital part the concussion effect is a lots less so my tinnitus is not as badly effected as it is with a 12 bore.

 

For me and I don't know why the 28 is magical it just does things so right and kills very cleanly.

[aris]

I don't have one (yet), but some of the qualities I like about 28ga:

 

• It is usually a lighter gun. That might not matter for some, but for people who can't carry a heavy gun it is a bonus. Great for kids, or those getting on in years
• Good selection of shot weights. Anything from 14g to 28g are easily available (i.e. JustCartridges) - so if you want ultra-low recoil, you can have it, or if you want a full-load you can have that too.
• Safety. In a mixed gun environment, you will never cross-load a 28g in a 12g gun. A 28g cartridge will fall right through a 12g barrel, whereas a 20g will wedge itself in there.

The only downside is the price of cartridges. You can mitigate this somewhat by re-loading of course, otherwise just pay your monies.

 

I'm surprised more grounds don't give newcomers (particularly kids or petite ladies) 28ga's. They usually give them 20's or 410's which may not always be appropriate

Edited July 3, 2014 by aris

[seeker]

Agree with both replies. Ive used a 28 for 10 years now and wish I'd discovered it earlier.

I use the same loads in the 28 as in a 12, when I had one, and I find the same as WW .. far less concussive effect on me, my tinnitus and I , possibly because it uses half the powder?

I tend to stick with more open chokes, it's not fussy and throws even patterns with most cartridges. I use loads between 18 and 24 gm, though the 25gm Pure Gold is both smooth and effective.

Down side ... I have become more choosy over the shots I take ...

Upside ... its put more pleasure back into shooting.

[Underdog]

For years we are taught bigger is better and so a snobbery developes.

I have only seen 28g in action and it is just the same on the target what ever it be as a common gauge.

Common sense really. Three or four pellets on the bird will do the job....be it a 28 or 12 there is way more pellets than is needed to down the bird!

My smallish muzzleloaders always amaze me with thier performance....years of engrained predjudice still linger in the background maybe!

[casts_by_fly]

There is no magic in a 28, just surprise from the people using them. For the range where most people shoot birds (<40 yards) 25g is more than enough to get good density. The fact that you can do that in a small, lively gun that is so 'underpowered' (or so commonly thought) is what surprises people.

 

thanks,

rick

[Guest cookoff013]

For years we are taught bigger is better and so a snobbery developes.

I have only seen 28g in action and it is just the same on the target what ever it be as a common gauge.

Common sense really. Three or four pellets on the bird will do the job....be it a 28 or 12 there is way more pellets than is needed to down the bird!

My smallish muzzleloaders always amaze me with thier performance....years of engrained predjudice still linger in the background maybe!

 

we can agree on that.

however, the 28gauge is limited to smaller shotsizes, ie 5-6-7 etc. any bigger and the shotcount is seriously low. not ideal.

where the 28gauge shines is the guns, they are light, as for any advantage over the 12-16-20-? virtually none.

 

12gauge can fire 66grams to 18grams . the 28 can do maybe 14 to 28 grams... ideally suited small sporting game.

there were a few articles recently where 12grams of #7 steel reloads have taken geese with a 28.

 

thats a skeet load.

[Underdog]

 

we can agree on that.

however, the 28gauge is limited to smaller shotsizes, ie 5-6-7 etc. any bigger and the shotcount is seriously low. not ideal.

where the 28gauge shines is the guns, they are light, as for any advantage over the 12-16-20-? virtually none.

 

12gauge can fire 66grams to 18grams . the 28 can do maybe 14 to 28 grams... ideally suited small sporting game.

there were a few articles recently where 12grams of #7 steel reloads have taken geese with a 28.

 

thats a skeet load.

you call it a skeet load matey but I would call it thier goose load as it took geese lol.

Fair points.

The op wonderes if more lead in the air is better.

The angle I was trying to approach is only a few pellets are required to do the job so throwing more is in one view just wasting more.

 

The example you give demonstrates this and proves conventional wisdom is not always right!

[wymberley]

 

Common sense really. Three or four pellets on the bird will do the job....be it a 28 or 12 there is way more pellets than is needed to down the bird!

 

How often on average do you need 3 or 4 pellets?

[Guest cookoff013]

you call it a skeet load matey but I would call it thier goose load as it took geese lol.

Fair points.

The op wonderes if more lead in the air is better.

The angle I was trying to approach is only a few pellets are required to do the job so throwing more is in one view just wasting more.

 

The example you give demonstrates this and proves conventional wisdom is not always right!

 

Wisdom? right?

 

just because someone shot a goose with a 28 gauge, 12grams of #7 steel does not mean its automatically a goose load. it was a load designed for pigeons.

the original load is discussed here. http://claygame.co.uk/blog/news-1

 

people shoot trapped foxes with a .410, but that doesnt ultimately mean that a .410 is a "fox gun".

 

in the uk there are no steel 28gauge shells designed or marketed for waterfowl.

there is in the state.

http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/product/7-AWE28GT7

 

now the positive stuff. the 28gauge does shine well with premium nontoxic shot (tmx itm itmx..) !

[Underdog]

How often on average do you need 3 or 4 pellets?

I have no idea.

[snarepeg]

Any one buying a 28 gauge(, and intending to keep it )should reload, along with the 410 it really is cost cutting.

21 gram of 6s will account for most game on the majority of shoots.

 

The steel loads work well within their limits, but it is not a foreshore gun, the 12 gauge up really counts where you have travelled a long distance for one shot? (Or none)

 

Why shoot 32 gram of 6s when 21 will do, I like my 28 shooting home grown fodder.

[Guest cookoff013]

Any one buying a 28 gauge(, and intending to keep it )should reload, along with the 410 it really is cost cutting.

21 gram of 6s will account for most game on the majority of shoots.

 

The steel loads work well within their limits, but it is not a foreshore gun, the 12 gauge up really counts where you have travelled a long distance for one shot? (Or none)

 

Why shoot 32 gram of 6s when 21 will do, I like my 28 shooting home grown fodder.

 

i`ve shot rabbits with all manor of cartridges, 30-32g #6, 36g #4 and #2s, i`ve also used 42g BB on other "game" where the 28 would have been useless.

[wymberley]

I have no idea.

From your earlier post I thought that you would have said every shot. (This assumes for the species that you would consider require that number.)

 

Our historical traditional perceived wisdom is that the requirement for several species is a 3 shot requirement to kill. It is now known that choosing a gun/choke/cartridge to achieve that figure is not valid as it will do so only on average and actually less than 60% of the time. This is why BASC now suggest an average 6 shot count is necessary to reasonably expect the required hit rate.

[Underdog]

From your earlier post I thought that you would have said every shot. (This assumes for the species that you would consider require that number.)

 

Our historical traditional perceived wisdom is that the requirement for several species is a 3 shot requirement to kill. It is now known that choosing a gun/choke/cartridge to achieve that figure is not valid as it will do so only on average and actually less than 60% of the time. This is why BASC now suggest an average 6 shot count is necessary to reasonably expect the required hit rate.

I dont think it can be given an average. An average figure is arrived at by a simple addition and division of figures. There is no way to count the actual strikes on millions of head of game, pigeon and other to get an accurate figure.

Anything else is an assumption!

I have taken critters with a single pellet to the noggin and also peppered birds that have needed a very long retrieve or birds that after multiple strikes when the dog retrieves are still alive!

BASC are not an authority in this matter. Each shot has its uniquic set of circumstance.

In my humble experience!

[welshwarrior]

I shoot 25g of 6s for most of my shooting sometimes I'll use 5s not often. Even with a 12 bore I seldom used anything larger than 32g again 5s most of my shooting was 28-30g 6s.

I'm not a wild fowler.

 

My coaching 28 bore uses 18g of mostly 9s and brings smiles to lots of kids and tiny ladies.

Edited July 3, 2014 by welshwarrior

[wymberley]

I dont think it can be given an average. An average figure is arrived at by a simple addition and division of figures. There is no way to count the actual strikes on millions of head of game, pigeon and other to get an accurate figure.

Anything else is an assumption!

I have taken critters with a single pellet to the noggin and also peppered birds that have needed a very long retrieve or birds that after multiple strikes when the dog retrieves are still alive!

BASC are not an authority in this matter. Each shot has its uniquic set of circumstance.

In my humble experience!

To take that to a logical conclusion; what you're in effect saying is that we can have simply no idea how a shotgun can be expected to perform. If, however, the examples that you've given are taken as the exception rather than the rule and in the vast majority of cases the gun performs as would have been expected based upon known criteria, then an assessment relating to the particular combination of factors involved can be regarded as reasonably accurate.

 

In one respect, I do agree entirely with your comment. However, don't forget it's not the messenger that matters but the message and knowledge of its originator.

[Dangerous Brian]

To take that to a logical conclusion; what you're in effect saying is that we can have simply no idea how a shotgun can be expected to perform. If, however, the examples that you've given are taken as the exception rather than the rule and in the vast majority of cases the gun performs as would have been expected based upon known criteria, then an assessment relating to the particular combination of factors involved can be regarded as reasonably accurate.

 

In one respect, I do agree entirely with your comment. However, don't forget it's not the messenger that matters but the message and knowledge of its originator.

Sorry to be nit picking Wymberley, but I recall it was you who brought the average shot count into the argument. Underdog said you needed 3-4 pellets to get the job done which I think you will get that on the majority of occaisions if you adopt the average of 6 hits mentioned in one of your replies. Average and minimum counts are different things.

[Underdog]

To take that to a logical conclusion; what you're in effect saying is that we can have simply no idea how a shotgun can be expected to perform. If, however, the examples that you've given are taken as the exception rather than the rule and in the vast majority of cases the gun performs as would have been expected based upon known criteria, then an assessment relating to the particular combination of factors involved can be regarded as reasonably accurate.

 

In one respect, I do agree entirely with your comment. However, don't forget it's not the messenger that matters but the message and knowledge of its originator.

sure we can expect a level of performance....with a compatable shell good performance. With a poorly compatable shell bad performance!

Rounding up or down is no more than an assumption.

Thus the gauge plays little roll. Outside special loads and applications that is!

[wymberley]

Sorry to be nit picking Wymberley, but I recall it was you who brought the average shot count into the argument. Underdog said you needed 3-4 pellets to get the job done which I think you will get that on the majority of occaisions if you adopt the average of 6 hits mentioned in one of your replies. Average and minimum counts are different things.

 

Sorry to be nit picking Wymberley, but I recall it was you who brought the average shot count into the argument. Underdog said you needed 3-4 pellets to get the job done which I think you will get that on the majority of occaisions if you adopt the average of 6 hits mentioned in one of your replies. Average and minimum counts are different things.

No problem, and yes I did and you're absolutely right in your last sentence. Over the years we've been brainwashed into thinking that a pattern which will deliver 3 pellets into a target means that a kill will (all things being equal) ensue. Consequently, it's all too easy to choose a combination of bore/cartridge/choke which will achieve that. However, during the work undertaken by the Ballistic Research Laboratory (BRL)into NTS which started off by testing lead shot as a base material, It became apparent that shotgun patterns complied quite accurately with the law of averages. An actual strike count of 3 from a barrel/cartridge which would supposedly deliver that figure only did so 58% of the time. If you go back and look at the effective ranges from the older tables you'll see that they're based on the misguided premise that the gun will do that every shot (anyone remember the tables in the Eley Diary which are now deleted and have been for some time?) Underdog was quite correct in his 3 or 4 pellets. I asked the question, how often to you need that number hoping he'd quite rightly say, every shot thus giving me an opening to make this very point. Alas, it was not to be. With information supplied by BRL and other agencies, it is now apparent that in order to achieve the minimum (3) count 6 pellets are necessary on average. Consequently, an adjustment is required to these older tables which are at times still referred to.

Edited July 3, 2014 by wymberley

[Hamster]

There's no magic about the 28 gauge, I had one for a couple of years for those pigeon shooting occasions where I needed to keep everything light and it's true it will give good kills at moderate range using the 19-21 gram loads it is designed for but the ammo is too expensive and unless you order from specialists the supplies at local dealers are often very erratic as well as restricted.

 

Shot alongside the 12 gauge it soon becomes apparent that 28/32 gram loads are better. I sold mine because with the exception of being a lighter gun it did nothing better and I could easily and cheaply switch to 24 gram or less whilst sticking to a 12 gauge.

 

If scores are of little consequence, it is a lovely feeling being able to tip 100 shells into your pockets and just grab the 28 gauge for a jolly round a course but don't expect to rub anyones nose in picking up High Gun.

Edited July 3, 2014 by Hamster

[Guest cookoff013]

There's no magic about the 28 gauge, I had one for a couple of years for those pigeon shooting occasions where I needed to keep everything light and it's true it will give good kills at moderate range using the 19-21 gram loads it is designed for but the ammo is too expensive and unless you order from specialists the supplies at local dealers are often very erratic as well as restricted.

 

Shot alongside the 12 gauge it soon becomes apparent that 28/32 gram loads are better. I sold mine because with the exception of being a lighter gun it did nothing better and I could easily and cheaply switch to 24 gram or less whilst sticking to a 12 gauge.

 

If scores are of little consequence, it is a lovely feeling being able to tip 100 shells into your pockets and just grab the 28 gauge for a jolly round a course but don't expect to rub anyones nose in picking up High Gun.

 

you could easily say shot against a 10gauge too. !

 

12s more versatile cheaper too.

[snarepeg]

 

i`ve shot rabbits with all manor of cartridges, 30-32g #6, 36g #4 and #2s, i`ve also used 42g BB on other "game" where the 28 would have been useless.

yep, and nothing to pick up if closer.

[Hamster]

 

you could easily say shot against a 10gauge too. !

 

12s more versatile cheaper too.

 

Bigger IS better so 10 bore is theoretically going to best the faithful 12 but in practice the latter has been found to be the best compromise. It weights between 7.5 to 9 lbs depending on application and can handle loads from 24g to 36g so covers just about everything, what a 10 bore won't do is handle like a 12.

Edited July 3, 2014 by Hamster

[fortune]

Why is it that nearly every topic on here ends up with stressed out replies? All the OP asked was >>

”As per title a lot of threads on here seem to adour their little 28g. So what is so magical about them ?”

How did this end up with disagreement as to how many pellets are needed ?

I’ve got all sorts of guns but I just love the 28 for what it is, And that is because the gun is a joy to shoot. It chops stuff down and never ceases to amaze me in terms of its ability. But my main go to gun for just out shooting is an old 12 bore No 4 boxlock with pits in the barrels.

 

But this is my My magical 28

Edited July 3, 2014 by fortune