overandunder2012 Posted July 21, 2014 Report Share Posted July 21, 2014 (edited) What would you guys suggest as an alternative to striking ? a good point if striking dont work what will? i guess they will just have to suck it up like the government want and do as they are told like good citizens and not complain and not want more as they cant have it as the cash is earmarked for the mp's pay rises . Edited July 21, 2014 by overandunder2012 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
islandgun Posted July 21, 2014 Report Share Posted July 21, 2014 I was a Maths teacher for forty years. I took part in short strikes. One to enable teachers to leave the building at lunchtime without having to ask permission; to abolish forced mealtime duty; to reduce the crippling percentage of salary paid to superannuation when statistics showed that most staff died within nine years of retiring. Over the years, I witnessed the erosion of lesson time given to core subjects and the increase in adopted hairy fairy subjects. I was still expected to deliver the results in reduced lesson time. As for long holidays, I needed to work with other teachers in shut down factories, often in boilers and furnaces. My pay for a weekend exceeded that for a fortnight as a teacher. I could never go on a cheap holiday in term time. I still enjoyed my job and often faced ridicule when past classmates and ex pupils paraded their expensive automobiles. I retired early and would exist on a poor pension but for my drug dealing and contract killing businesses which bring in good money. No doubt your most promising students showed you the ropes and you just run with it, if only all the retired showed such presence of mind Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henry d Posted July 21, 2014 Report Share Posted July 21, 2014 Current course requirements are 12 hours lectures a week, apparently. http://www.ljmu.ac.uk/courses/undergraduate/2014/zoology " Formal teaching accounts for approximately 12 hours of your study time each week; the rest should be spent in private study." And like I said, I *still* don't know of any degree course with a timetable taking up more than 12 hours in any given week. My course is 8 hours lectures x 2 each week x 18 weeks, and 20 hours per week fieldwork placement x 52 weeks less 38 days unpaid holiday. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted July 21, 2014 Report Share Posted July 21, 2014 (edited) My work consists of 6 working days mostly, and sometimes 7, dependant on work load, plus who knows how many unpaid hours per week (driving to destinations to price work etc and consulting with customers, who sometimes don't then bother to employ you or who simply intend to use you as a pricing mechanism to make an insurance claim ) plus NO paid holidays per year, plus NO sick benefits.I can also, at times get quite a bit of free time...all unpaid of course, which means the job I did over 5 days for 600 quid last week, is now working out at 600 quid for 6 days, or 7, or 8, but I still have tax to pay at the same amount, plus stamp. I'm not complaining; it goes with the job. I'm self employed. It was my choice. I'd go on strike, but who would notice? Edited July 21, 2014 by Scully Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Floating Chamber Posted July 21, 2014 Report Share Posted July 21, 2014 No doubt your most promising students showed you the ropes and you just run with it, if only all the retired showed such presence of mind I thought that may amuse a few! ;-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keg Posted July 21, 2014 Report Share Posted July 21, 2014 We got a letter from the school my two attend stating that although the school was affected by the strike, it wouldn't be known until the day as to what that effect would be, and while our kids would be expected to attend it would be advisable for a parent to be contactable in case it was necessary to send either one or both children home. I told my two not to bother going and since have been told we will be receiving a letter requesting an explanation as to why our children didn't attend. Am looking forward to it. How the hell are you supposed to plan your day without knowing if teh school/class is or is not open. Please keep us updated with that one! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted July 21, 2014 Report Share Posted July 21, 2014 Please keep us updated with that one! Will do, but I don't expect to hear anything now until the new term. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chady Posted July 21, 2014 Report Share Posted July 21, 2014 Why are they on strike for 6 weeks? Will do, but I don't expect to hear anything now until the new term. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silver pigeon69 Posted July 21, 2014 Report Share Posted July 21, 2014 Why are they on strike for 6 weeks? :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markm Posted July 21, 2014 Report Share Posted July 21, 2014 We are striking, giving you time to be a parent...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lockstockandbarrel Posted July 21, 2014 Report Share Posted July 21, 2014 anybody got any symphony for the teachers strike. I for one have none . 12 weeks paid holiday 30 - 40 presents when the kids break up. pension +benefits my job construction ,same money I was on 12 years ago no holiday pay and competing with eastern Europeans for work. I have no sympathy whatsoever,teachers and fireman for some reason think they deserve the monopoly on ever increasing benefits while the rest of us get nothing. Its not like they pick their salary out of a hat after they qualify, they are fully aware of terms and conditions before they choose their professions. if you are not happy then look for something else but please realise you get very well paid for what you do compared to most of the working population. Kindest regards Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markm Posted July 22, 2014 Report Share Posted July 22, 2014 (edited) they are fully aware of terms and conditions before they choose their professions Kindest regards If you done your research, you would find that the vast majority of teachers (and fireman) are happy with what they signed up for, but the deal has been changed for many. I signed up 20 years ago. New teachers should be happy or do something else. Edited July 22, 2014 by markm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickS Posted July 22, 2014 Report Share Posted July 22, 2014 I have no sympathy whatsoever,teachers and fireman for some reason think they deserve the monopoly on ever increasing benefits while the rest of us get nothing. Its not like they pick their salary out of a hat after they qualify, they are fully aware of terms and conditions before they choose their professions. if you are not happy then look for something else but please realise you get very well paid for what you do compared to most of the working population. Kindest regards I think you are missing the point. One of the main problems is that whilst I was aware of the terms and conditions when I became a teacher, these have now changed significantly and not for the better. It is a job I love as much as I did when I started 28 years ago, even if there are times when it drives me nuts. I am fortunate in that I do not "need" to work but do so from choice. It was also my choice to go back to being an ordinary classroom teacher but I would not say that a salary of about £34k is particularly grand for a graduate profession. The reason I don't strike is that I don't believe it hits the employers, just the "customers". The reason I don't up sticks and leave is because I love what I do more than I dislike the continuous stream of nonsense we get from those same employers and "customers". Your suggestion that if people are unhappy, they should get another job is fair but who do we replace them with? Those we lose are often the brightest and the best, who are willing to throw their energies into running the clubs and activities, preparing challenging courses and providing a positive rôle model for the next generation. Get rid of those and what are you left with? Don't kid yourself that the are people lining up to replace those who leave. We don't even bother with advertising maths and science vacancies as, when we have, nobody replied. The only reason I am working at my present school is that somebody knew that I had moved into the area and was getting a bit bored. Mine is not an inner-city school with lots of problems, either. It is hugely oversubscribed, in a generally pleasant area, behaviour is rarely an issue and our recent OFSTED inspection judged us outstanding in every way. What chance do those less fortunate have? I also love how people think they know all about teaching and education simply because they went to school - it is no more valid than believing you know how to be a pilot because you have flown on a jet to go on holiday or a surgeon because you have been to hospital. Nick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIGHTCHOKE Posted July 22, 2014 Report Share Posted July 22, 2014 Bravo NickS That is by far the most sensible post in these 9 pages! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flashman Posted July 22, 2014 Report Share Posted July 22, 2014 I think you are missing the point. One of the main problems is that whilst I was aware of the terms and conditions when I became a teacher, these have now changed significantly and not for the better. It is a job I love as much as I did when I started 28 years ago, even if there are times when it drives me nuts. I am fortunate in that I do not "need" to work but do so from choice. It was also my choice to go back to being an ordinary classroom teacher but I would not say that a salary of about £34k is particularly grand for a graduate profession. The reason I don't strike is that I don't believe it hits the employers, just the "customers". The reason I don't up sticks and leave is because I love what I do more than I dislike the continuous stream of nonsense we get from those same employers and "customers". Your suggestion that if people are unhappy, they should get another job is fair but who do we replace them with? Those we lose are often the brightest and the best, who are willing to throw their energies into running the clubs and activities, preparing challenging courses and providing a positive rôle model for the next generation. Get rid of those and what are you left with? Don't kid yourself that the are people lining up to replace those who leave. We don't even bother with advertising maths and science vacancies as, when we have, nobody replied. The only reason I am working at my present school is that somebody knew that I had moved into the area and was getting a bit bored. Mine is not an inner-city school with lots of problems, either. It is hugely oversubscribed, in a generally pleasant area, behaviour is rarely an issue and our recent OFSTED inspection judged us outstanding in every way. What chance do those less fortunate have? I also love how people think they know all about teaching and education simply because they went to school - it is no more valid than believing you know how to be a pilot because you have flown on a jet to go on holiday or a surgeon because you have been to hospital. Nick Surely the "brightest and best" teach in private schools, where they're better paid and don't strike? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aris Posted July 22, 2014 Report Share Posted July 22, 2014 Even with the changes coming in, teachers still have pensions that people in the private sector could only dream of. Traditionally, this is why state jobs paid less than private. The overall deal was good. I understand this has changed slightly, but still a good deal compared to private pensions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dashman1 Posted July 22, 2014 Report Share Posted July 22, 2014 Once again bone idle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markm Posted July 22, 2014 Report Share Posted July 22, 2014 (edited) As I have mentioned previously, if I take a big lump sum after 40 years, I will be £50,000 worse off. I don't call that slight. A genuine question - how does 80th's compare to the private sector? Edited July 22, 2014 by markm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aris Posted July 22, 2014 Report Share Posted July 22, 2014 As I have mentioned previously, if I take a big lump sum after 40 years, I will be £50,000 worse off. I don't call that slight. A genuine question - how does 80th's compare to the private sector? From what I understand, you have a final salary scheme guaranteed by the state. Hardly anyone in the private sector have final salary schemes. In the private sector, we pay a percentage of our salary along with our employers who pay in a percentage, and it gets managed by a pension fund who take a percentage for their "efforts" of investing and managing our money. At the end of it all, you hope it was invested wisely and you have enough to retire on, either by buying an annuity, or (the rules appear to be changing now), take a taxed lump sum. I think you'll find that final salary pensions are VERY generous if you compare it to what people in the private sector would have to save in their pension fund to equal that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markm Posted July 22, 2014 Report Share Posted July 22, 2014 Aris - that's all talk not facts. The key thing is most public sector workers salaries are out in the public domain. Private are not. Whilst I get the deal I signed up for was good (which has been changed) I see an awful lot of private pension pullers quiet well off. So I need to work full time in the same job for 40 years to get half my final wage. During this time I also pay to a private company (teachers pensions) which I'm sure is part of capita. Do public have to work 50 years plus who have been through FE? Whilst I understand these issues are private to people, it will be interesting to see how many 'bashers' explain their deal, I also wonder how many are not paying in and just going to rely on the state. I love to know from the "bone idle" commentator. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Floating Chamber Posted July 22, 2014 Report Share Posted July 22, 2014 If you can read this, thank a teacher. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aris Posted July 22, 2014 Report Share Posted July 22, 2014 Aris - that's all talk not facts. The key thing is most public sector workers salaries are out in the public domain. Private are not. Whilst I get the deal I signed up for was good (which has been changed) I see an awful lot of private pension pullers quiet well off. So I need to work full time in the same job for 40 years to get half my final wage. During this time I also pay to a private company (teachers pensions) which I'm sure is part of capita. Do public have to work 50 years plus who have been through FE? Whilst I understand these issues are private to people, it will be interesting to see how many 'bashers' explain their deal, I also wonder how many are not paying in and just going to rely on the state. I love to know from the "bone idle" commentator. Firstly, I have full respect for teachers - i know a fair few and they work quite hard - and a bit harder now than they used to as many changes have come through in recent years. Hardly bone idle, but like with anyone else in work, if you're not happy, then you have to move on. The only people in the private pension world who are doing 'ok' are the high earners who stashed away lots of their earned money into their pension. Simple as that. There is no free lunch or state guarantee with a private pension. The retirement age is currently 65 - going up to 68, or possibly more in the future. If you started work at 18, and put into a private pension all your life, then yes, you would be working 50 years before you can get to your pension. But you would only get what you put in plus any possible growth IF the money was invested wisely. It could well go the other way too - no guarantees. So what do you do? Go work in the private sector, work your way up the ladder to higher earnings, but no guarantees you will get there or your pension will sustain you in a way you would expect later life - or go into the public sector, more stable job prospects, lower earnings, but a pension guaranteed by the state. It's a personal choice. I know several people (not teachers) working for the state who left all that for the private sector. Again - personal choice based on your expectations in life. Pensions are a minefield - we're all living longer and state backed final salary pensions are just not affordable any more. I'd be quite happy for all civil servants to be paid private sector salaries with private sector pension & benefits too - let the market decide. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welsh1 Posted July 22, 2014 Report Share Posted July 22, 2014 If you can read this, thank a teacher. I can thank my Mother and Father, as i was capable of reading before i went to school. And part of the problem these days is that a lot of parents do nothing with their children.I was read stories and sat on my Dad's lap reading the paper with him at an early age ,and my Sons had the same, books and reading encouraged at every opportunity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aris Posted July 22, 2014 Report Share Posted July 22, 2014 I can thank my Mother and Father, as i was capable of reading before i went to school. And part of the problem these days is that a lot of parents do nothing with their children.I was read stories and sat on my Dad's lap reading the paper with him at an early age ,and my Sons had the same, books and reading encouraged at every opportunity. Quite right. It brings into question what makes a 'good school'. Is it the teachers, or is it the parents? You can throw as many excellent teachers at a school as you like, but if the parents don't give a monkeys about education, their kids will not either. FWIW - my 9 year old son read 49 books last year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henry d Posted July 22, 2014 Report Share Posted July 22, 2014 Surely the "brightest and best" teach in private schools, where they're better paid and don't strike? No, they have morals and want to teach those who need it most Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.