ordnance Posted July 17, 2014 Report Share Posted July 17, 2014 We will never know the truth, if it was brought down on purpose. If it was brought down by a missile then it was brought down on purpose was it not. I doubt that someone accidently shot it down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
overandunder2012 Posted July 17, 2014 Report Share Posted July 17, 2014 Best we get the full facts before the Lynching party take to the streets. thats not the pw way here the keyboard is always engaged before the brain Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
margun Posted July 17, 2014 Report Share Posted July 17, 2014 This world is going crazy Syria, Iraq, Ukraine, Israel parts of Africa. Whats going on, its going to get much worse. If its a Surface to Air missile who supplied it? And strange how it happened the day after the US and EU put more sanctions on Russia.. Don't forget China/Japan, India/Pakistan, running military coups in Thailand, coupled with economic strife throughout. I've thought for a while that WW3 is happening in all but name, with the ingredients for a seriously nasty conflict, the big question - what will be the trigger that brings the whole thing together? Condolences to all involved with today's terrible event. I can't help thinking that this is more than a coincidence that another MAS 777-200 (safest out there with 20ish years of service, 4 losses only one of which so far appears to be the aircraft's fault). Very very sad indeed and RIP to the passengers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
overandunder2012 Posted July 17, 2014 Report Share Posted July 17, 2014 i have wondered if world war 3 has been going on for years just nobodys mentioned it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scolopax Posted July 18, 2014 Report Share Posted July 18, 2014 At the beginning of the week a Ukrainian military transport plane was shot down from 6500 m in the same area by a surface to air missile plus a number of smaller Ukrainian combat aircraft have also been shot down in the same area this last week or two. So that begs the question why were international passenger planes flying over the exact same area on a routine basis !?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penelope Posted July 18, 2014 Report Share Posted July 18, 2014 From a fishing forum I use. On BBC News that Russian separatists went on twitter boasting that they had shot down another Ukrainian plane. Then news broke that a MH plane had gone missing and the twitter boasts stopped, went quiet for a few hours, then started blaming the Ukrainian authorities for shooting it down.Hmmm, not jumping to any conclusions of course... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matty7247 Posted July 18, 2014 Report Share Posted July 18, 2014 The Americans are looking through satelite footage of the event, When a piece of hardware is used, it produces a massive Radar Splash, this shows up quite well, and given the size, and rough times of when the plane was destroyed, it will be easy to find out where it was fired from. The plane was flying at 33,000ft, civilian airlines were warned to avoid flying over the area due to the rise of anti-air in the area. There are reports of Russian sepratists speaking to apparent Russian security services asking why they were flying over the area, assuming it was A Ukrainian military carrier. One thing for certain, they will find out who did it, then i guess we'll see what happens nxt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m3vert Posted July 18, 2014 Report Share Posted July 18, 2014 From a fishing forum I use. On BBC News that Russian separatists went on twitter boasting that they had shot down another Ukrainian plane. Then news broke that a MH plane had gone missing and the twitter boasts stopped, went quiet for a few hours, then started blaming the Ukrainian authorities for shooting it down. Hmmm, not jumping to any conclusions of course... Yeah it must be easy to get a 777 and an Antonov mixed up at 32,000ft! I think its pretty clear from the #### feed that they shot it down and then realised their mistake, complete clowns that they are. Question needs to be who supplied the technology to those who pressed the button??? I think we can guess right enough. RIP to those innocents who have been taken from their loved ones! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welsh1 Posted July 18, 2014 Author Report Share Posted July 18, 2014 Yeah it must be easy to get a 777 and an Antonov mixed up at 32,000ft! I think its pretty clear from the #### feed that they shot it down and then realised their mistake, complete clowns that they are. Question needs to be who supplied the technology to those who pressed the button??? I think we can guess right enough. RIP to those innocents who have been taken from their loved ones! The question over who supplied the technology is inconsequential,the persons who fired are to blame. If we chased the countrys who supplied weapons that were used to kill and maim,Great Britain would be in deep trouble Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Man o kent Posted July 18, 2014 Report Share Posted July 18, 2014 At least they found this one... ...too soon? #blackhumour . Get your coat... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gimlet Posted July 18, 2014 Report Share Posted July 18, 2014 At the beginning of the week a Ukrainian military transport plane was shot down from 6500 m in the same area by a surface to air missile plus a number of smaller Ukrainian combat aircraft have also been shot down in the same area this last week or two. So that begs the question why were international passenger planes flying over the exact same area on a routine basis !?! Precisely. Ukraine is a war zone. Forget the whys and wherefores and who is the aggressor and who the injured party, that's irrelevant. Its a war zone. A civilian aircraft flew directly over a war zone rather than round it to save money. The response from some politicians, as reported in the Telegraph this morning, is to call for the US to arm Ukraine against Russia. That'll help, won't it? Dear God it really isn't difficult to see why the world is such a mess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big bad lindz Posted July 18, 2014 Report Share Posted July 18, 2014 Very sad as it is, but this was not the first civilian aircraft to have been shot down in areas of conflict, unrest & tension between various countrys. It may be a little obvious given the fact that 2 aircraft had been shot down by the `rebels` `bad guys` `freedom fighters`(or whatever they want to call themselvs these days) in the past few weeks. For us who are no where near the conflict it is easy to comment but we can only read & see what news we are alowed to get and we all can jump to our own conclusions. Some one knows who & what happened and I doubt if we will ever find out the whole truth. Its the loss of inocient life that is so sad and we should be thinking about the familes that are left to pick up the pices (no black humour intented) not slagging off each others comments. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kes Posted July 18, 2014 Report Share Posted July 18, 2014 The question over who supplied the technology is inconsequential,the persons who fired are to blame. If we chased the countrys who supplied weapons that were used to kill and maim,Great Britain would be in deep trouble I think circumstances alter case over arms supply. Britain supplies country's (refused arms to Syrian rebels), here we see Russia, in a territorial dispute with a Sovereign Power, having annexed some of that country against the will of the country and the international community. Are the seperatists Russians doing Russia's bidding, or are they really Russia's anonymised armed forces. Difficult to teach a farmer the electronic intricacies of complex ground to air computer controlled missile batteries. These days they will have his picture shortly from the precise grid location as the satellite passed over. With all the troop movements going on the US will have a drone on station and a satellite giving 24 hour coverage. I hope they shoot the ****** that pressed the button after having dropped him without a parachute from 32,000ft. Sorry for the swear word but there are times. Everyone thoughts should perhaps linger on the agony of the families caught up in this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penelope Posted July 18, 2014 Report Share Posted July 18, 2014 Americans supposedly picked up infra red 'lock on' from a missile at launch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
overandunder2012 Posted July 18, 2014 Report Share Posted July 18, 2014 (edited) there is video is footage of a rocket launcher minus 2 missiles apparently heading to russia Edited July 18, 2014 by overandunder2012 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welsh1 Posted July 18, 2014 Author Report Share Posted July 18, 2014 I think circumstances alter case over arms supply. Britain supplies country's (refused arms to Syrian rebels), here we see Russia, in a territorial dispute with a Sovereign Power, having annexed some of that country against the will of the country and the international community. Are the seperatists Russians doing Russia's bidding, or are they really Russia's anonymised armed forces. Difficult to teach a farmer the electronic intricacies of complex ground to air computer controlled missile batteries. These days they will have his picture shortly from the precise grid location as the satellite passed over. With all the troop movements going on the US will have a drone on station and a satellite giving 24 hour coverage. I hope they shoot the ******* that pressed the button after having dropped him without a parachute from 32,000ft. Sorry for the swear word but there are times. Everyone thoughts should perhaps linger on the agony of the families caught up in this. Lets not kid ourselves over arms supply and the role britain plays,we are embroiled in wars all over this planet, and arm and train any army we think is in our interest,and while i agree with you about the hazy line between separatists or russian soldiers we as a country are no better,we have played chess with countries since the days of the empire arming who we want to win and sending in "advisers" to help us achieve our aims.Regime change is unfortunately a common tactic for this country. Unless it can be proved that russia gave an order to take down all aircraft in the zone then we have no proof it was them,and it was more likely an over zealous operator acting on local commands,or simply his own initiative,whoever did it is probably no longer capable of telling us his motives. I agree with you about thoughts being with the innocent victims families. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe soapy Posted July 18, 2014 Report Share Posted July 18, 2014 Hmm, my mate with his ipone can point it at an aircraft and all the details of plane, take off point and destination even some of passengers will be identified,, so mistaken identity excuse. route planners and pilot also bear much of blame for putting plane into a risk area. there will be a person sitting in an office somewhere who did the risk assesment for this flight they will have chosen to save money on fuel, and maybe should be given the opportunity of 20 years jail time to consider the wisdom of this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TriBsa Posted July 18, 2014 Report Share Posted July 18, 2014 Hmm, my mate with his ipone can point it at an aircraft and all the details of plane, take off point and destination even some of passengers will be identified,, so mistaken identity excuse. route planners and pilot also bear much of blame for putting plane into a risk area. there will be a person sitting in an office somewhere who did the risk assesment for this flight they will have chosen to save money on fuel, and maybe should be given the opportunity of 20 years jail time to consider the wisdom of this Malaysian Airlines were losing money prior to MH370 and I doubt if that did ticket sales any good . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thunderbird Posted July 18, 2014 Report Share Posted July 18, 2014 and pilot also bear much of blame for putting plane into a risk area. I don't think that's right. I'm sure the pilot doesn't choose the company route, he might do the fuel calculations but I don't think the pilot chooses the overall route but can request changes to it from ATC en-route should conditions dictate. Maybe Grandalf or some of our other fly-boys can correct me if I'm wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roadkill Posted July 18, 2014 Report Share Posted July 18, 2014 The company dictates the route, all of are planes are now avoiding this area Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
overandunder2012 Posted July 18, 2014 Report Share Posted July 18, 2014 this has got to be the smoking gun missing two missiles https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P2JUvZP5cfA#t=10 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe soapy Posted July 18, 2014 Report Share Posted July 18, 2014 The company dictates the route, all of are planes are now avoiding this area The captain of a plane is solely responsible for safety when he is in control, just like a ships captain Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catweazle Posted July 18, 2014 Report Share Posted July 18, 2014 this has got to be the smoking gun missing two missiles https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P2JUvZP5cfA#t=10 That's a pretty poor attempt at "smuggling missile launcher", they didn't even put a sheet over it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
overandunder2012 Posted July 18, 2014 Report Share Posted July 18, 2014 That's a pretty poor attempt at "smuggling missile launcher", they didn't even put a sheet over it. i know a really shoddy job so its either fake or the sheer stupidty continued Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laird Lugton Posted July 18, 2014 Report Share Posted July 18, 2014 (edited) The captain of a plane is solely responsible for safety when he is in control, just like a ships captain But when ICAO deem the route to be safe what justification does the Captain have for blowing any profit to be made on extra fuel given the International Civil Aviation Organisation, which is an offshoot of the UN, had declared the route safe? Tel Aviv is a hot topic amongst flight crew operating in there. All the airlines say it's safe but Hamas have unguided rockets and have stated they want to attack the airport. Do we fly in or do we not? I fly through KFOR airspace over the Balkans on a regular basis, ICAO have deemed it safe. I fly over the Otterburn ranges at 22,000ft as I'm not allowed to fly at 21,000ft. BA is still flying into Kiev and it's only 250km from the fighting. All deemed safe. Just playing devils advocate but the skip has to be able to justify his decision. It's not a matter of marching into the ops office, thumping your fist on the table and saying "we do it my way or the highway" as you'll find yourself on the highway pretty sharpish. Edited July 18, 2014 by Laird Lugton Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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