oddjobs Posted July 19, 2014 Report Share Posted July 19, 2014 Air Gun Licensing (Scotland) was passed in May. Although the BASC is working to get the legislation scrapped, rumours are emerging that this could be extended to the whole of the UK. Apart from the costs in budgets and the burden of time on police this I feel would only cause an increase in Airgun crime at a time where it has fallen by 75%. I personally fully support the scrapping of this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lxtav Posted July 19, 2014 Report Share Posted July 19, 2014 It's not passed yet it's at the committee stage. The draft bill has been published and the ins and outs of it are being discussed. I also believe it's pointless and won't do anything to cut crime but it's a good way for hapless politicians to sound good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainBeaky Posted July 19, 2014 Report Share Posted July 19, 2014 If the legislation is to be extended to cover the rest of the UK, they will have to re-do the consultation - if/when that happens we need to make sure the response is a resounding "f##k off!" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
srspower Posted July 19, 2014 Report Share Posted July 19, 2014 It has no chance of being across the UK, especially with a tory government. But even the rest wouldn't pass it on principle, because it is Alex Salmonds 'legacy' and they all hate him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisjpainter Posted July 19, 2014 Report Share Posted July 19, 2014 (edited) *rummages around for a tin hat* Depending on how it was formulated, I would be in favour of a license. I appreciate all of the potential ramifications of a license - cost for the shooter, endangering grass-roots entry into all shooting forms, will it have really have an effect on crime, what about the weapons already in hand etc... But, I don't mind the cost if it stops people and pets being injured by reckless fools, it could also have the effect of removing the 12ft/lb limit. This will take a long time, especially considering the amount of air weapons out there currently. But if pellets were only available on presentation of a valid license, and that license was only granted if one could prove club membership/viable land permission, I think it would - eventually - have the desired effect of improving safety. I'd also like to see the money raised going directly into conservation/shooting, as it does with the EA's money for fishing licenses, and not just perpetuating bureaucracy. It's my opinion and I know lots of chaps on here disagree! Before I commit whole-heartedly to licensing though, I'd like to see how it works - or fails - in Scotland. If after 5 years it all goes horribly wrong and ends up being a hopelessly expensive boondoggle then I'll change my tune! Edited July 19, 2014 by chrisjpainter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted July 19, 2014 Report Share Posted July 19, 2014 The fact is though, is that it is already illegal to shoot people and pets, and those people who have a penchant for this type of thing aren't likely to be the type of people who will apply for a license nor hand in their guns; there is to be no compensation for those who bought air guns legally but have no wish to apply for a license. It is highly likely that the vast majority of air guns in circulation will simply 'go underground', and if this does happen, what has the licensing system then achieved? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisjpainter Posted July 19, 2014 Report Share Posted July 19, 2014 (edited) The fact is though, is that it is already illegal to shoot people and pets, and those people who have a penchant for this type of thing aren't likely to be the type of people who will apply for a license nor hand in their guns; there is to be no compensation for those who bought air guns legally but have no wish to apply for a license. It is highly likely that the vast majority of air guns in circulation will simply 'go underground', and if this does happen, what has the licensing system then achieved? yeah, i do take the point. But if pellets could only be bought with presentation of the license and if they were all behind the counter and hard to lift. it might go some way. Edited July 19, 2014 by chrisjpainter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zenduri Posted July 19, 2014 Report Share Posted July 19, 2014 .......But, I don't mind the cost if it stops people and pets being injured by reckless fools, it could also have the effect of removing the 12ft/lb limit........ Considering FAC air rifle can fire a 303 lump of lead at 100ftlbs and easily put down a boar let alone a human. i personally think keeping the 12ftlbs in place and making them FAC restricted is fine. I would be in favor of a Airgun cert if on the initial implementation it grandfathers in those who are already shooting sub 12ft/lb for next to no charge as long as they file their application in a certain time frame from the act and they can prove they are shooting at a range or on a permission. I would then be up for the limit pf selling pellets to only people who could show they have a Airgun cert, Also as long as there are no requirements to keep it in a gun cabinet with it being sub 12 ft/lbs. if clubs/ranges support new starters by providing equipment at the ranges and then the individual can show they are a member of said club or range then i would feel allowing them a cert to then buy air weapons under 12ft lbs and pellets would be ok Had a bit to drink sorry if that doesn't make entire sense! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted July 19, 2014 Report Share Posted July 19, 2014 yeah, i do take the point. But if pellets could only be bought with presentation of the license and if they were all behind the counter and hard to lift. it might go some way. That's a fair point and one I hadn't considered. Though I have to say It will take some time before illegally held air gun misuse dries up due to a shortage of ammo, and there is no shortage south of the border nor a license requirement to buy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisjpainter Posted July 19, 2014 Report Share Posted July 19, 2014 That's a fair point and one I hadn't considered. Though I have to say It will take some time before illegally held air gun misuse dries up due to a shortage of ammo, and there is no shortage south of the border nor a license requirement to buy. and I'd not considered that! It seems a fair test is almost completely impractical! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oddjobs Posted July 19, 2014 Author Report Share Posted July 19, 2014 The fact is though, is that it is already illegal to shoot people and pets, and those people who have a penchant for this type of thing aren't likely to be the type of people who will apply for a license nor hand in their guns; there is to be no compensation for those who bought air guns legally but have no wish to apply for a license. It is highly likely that the vast majority of air guns in circulation will simply 'go underground', and if this does happen, what has the licensing system then achieved? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oddjobs Posted July 19, 2014 Author Report Share Posted July 19, 2014 Guns going underground is probably the most worrying thing. I believe it would impact memberships on clubs to a point where some would close. As for not being able to by pellets unless licence is shown, well that does not stop people buying from the internet. Fakes and the black market would boom. Maybe they should licence baseball bats as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evo Posted July 19, 2014 Report Share Posted July 19, 2014 :lol: lets be honest ,,its a total joke, how will it work who will control it the police and the country are already skint and underpowered, crickey it will take years to get a licence as it does in some places for any other firearms licence it will certainly not stop clowns from shooting live animals OFF the GL and WHY Scotland is trying for it just shows the mentality of those north of the boarder above comment is aimed at the MP,s not the people of Scotland even though some are thick :whistling: atb Evo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruno22rf Posted July 20, 2014 Report Share Posted July 20, 2014 It may be worth remembering that both Ryan (Hungerford) and Hamilton (Dunblane) were license holders. Legislation would have a negligible effect on Airgun crime-if current laws were upheld and the police were to spend time catching the louts that shoot Swans off ponds etc then gun crime would fall. But there is no money in solving minor gun crimes-not while there are so many motorists out there doing 34 in a 30 mph zone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisjpainter Posted July 20, 2014 Report Share Posted July 20, 2014 Guns going underground is probably the most worrying thing. I believe it would impact memberships on clubs to a point where some would close. As for not being able to by pellets unless licence is shown, well that does not stop people buying from the internet. Fakes and the black market would boom. Maybe they should licence baseball bats as well. I'd make it the same as air rifles now and rifle/shotgun ammo: No internet sales. I don't think there's a need to cap the amount bought or retained, but if there had to be a license shown in person, it might help. Bruno's right though, there's not much good in a law unless it's going to be enforced and it might be totally unenforceable without a massive, nationwide commitment to it. But would I rather they were off chasing down an illegal air weapon over tackling human trafficking and the like? no Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oddjobs Posted July 20, 2014 Author Report Share Posted July 20, 2014 (edited) I would assume that all the gangsters up and down the country would be honest enough to get a licence for their sawn offs, 9mm pistols and AK47's. (Never gonna happen) Maybe the promotion of more clubs and stronger sentencing would be a better way forward. Edited July 20, 2014 by oddjobs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisjpainter Posted July 20, 2014 Report Share Posted July 20, 2014 I can't imagine a great line in bootlegged airgun pellets! Air rifles - by and large - are not being used for serious crime. they're being used for essentially idiots like Ashley Cole for shooting academy players, and people taking pot shots at stuff for laughs. the harder you make it to have those laughs, the more likely it is the fools will go elsewhere for kicks. It'll take time, but i think it might work, especially if you make it so that you can sell but not legal to buy. That'd mean people could easily get rid of the guns for a bit of cash. We'll see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BattleFieldRelics Posted July 20, 2014 Report Share Posted July 20, 2014 Theres an FB community if anybody is interested in joining: https://www.facebook.com/NoToAirgunLicencingInScotland?fref=ts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oddjobs Posted July 20, 2014 Author Report Share Posted July 20, 2014 There is also a FB community for England and Wales. This should be a joint effort for the whole Great Britain to say a big FAT NO. Currently in Essex the waiting time for a FAC is a minimum of 6months to 10 months. So how on earth do they really think this could be implemented? All this will do is give the authorities a very rough idea of how many Airguns are out there. (And I do mean rough idea) As with all governments and politicians there are lies, big lies and Statistics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FalconFN Posted July 20, 2014 Report Share Posted July 20, 2014 (edited) If they ever do licence air rifles there will probably be a fair few bargains to be had as people sell off old rifles that have been in lofts and cupboards for years. I doubt if licensing would make a huge amount of difference to criminal activities, it may prevent a few divs doing stupid things, but it will probably just be an unwelcome burden on whoever has to administer it and an unwelcome extra expence to us as they then claw back some of the costs. Edited July 20, 2014 by FalconFN Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clubshot Posted July 21, 2014 Report Share Posted July 21, 2014 Central Government cut Police Budgets which included Fire Arms Teams Hopping to deter Shooters into getting any Gun licensed Which is not working as more UK Residents apply for Licensed Guns Be it Shot Gun's for Clay Shooting Fire Arms for Target / Larger Control shooting Or FAC Rated Air Guns I recently had issues and delays with TAC License as Met Police took even longer to process my renewal form Aware of many others especially in Essex that are having major Issues - As more Forces join teams and cut Staff to save Budget funds If applying or Renewing in Essex - allow as long as possible as understand they are well behind - BOB/R Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oddjobs Posted July 21, 2014 Author Report Share Posted July 21, 2014 Tally ho old boy, can you see what the common people are doing these days? They are bloody shooting like us the Great British Aristocracy. This simply will not do old bean and we need to put a stop to their fun or they will think that they have gone up a class or something. The Classes are in peril so have a word with old Bertie in the house if lords and see if we can put a stop to this Lower class nonsense! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisjpainter Posted July 21, 2014 Report Share Posted July 21, 2014 Tally ho old boy, can you see what the common people are doing these days? They are bloody shooting like us the Great British Aristocracy. This simply will not do old bean and we need to put a stop to their fun or they will think that they have gone up a class or something. The Classes are in peril so have a word with old Bertie in the house if lords and see if we can put a stop to this Lower class nonsense! Probably something to do with that. Mrs Old Boy doesn't want Tiddles the cat and daughter Tatiana's pony getting shot by those uncouth yobbos from the estates. It's all about votes in the end. It'd also be popular with lefty fluffy lovers. Sadly, I'm not really sure it's about public safety at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loriusgarrulus Posted July 21, 2014 Report Share Posted July 21, 2014 Trouble is the uncouth yobbos don't bother with a licence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TDRsniper Posted July 22, 2014 Report Share Posted July 22, 2014 Another example of knee jerk reactions to punish the masses for the actions of the few! Whether it's alcohol and they want to shut pubs cause people get drunk or banning conkers in playgrounds cause some kid somewhere got a black eye and mummy complained.......what it should be about is personal responsibility and if YOU do something wrong or stupid YOU should face the consequences! Not stop everyone else by forcing us all to pay more, get more licenses, get more insurance, pass more tests! If someone shoots a swan or a cat, punish them heavily and promote it to the media properly, if little jonny gets a black eye playing games like conkers or climbing trees don't chop down all the trees. Sorry rant over. :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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