Old farrier Posted July 20, 2014 Report Share Posted July 20, 2014 Hi stevo Didn't think you were doubhting anyone I also understand there not as ballistically efficient however I would rather purchase 1000 I can shoot anywear than 250 I can't Anyway just off with the lads to knock a hole in another 1000 little reward for them working hard yesterday All the best Of Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alastair0903 Posted July 20, 2014 Report Share Posted July 20, 2014 Can anyone name another cartridge which is labeled fibre but has a bit of plastic in it? Noble sport Ok use the same wad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted July 20, 2014 Report Share Posted July 20, 2014 Can anyone name another cartridge which is labeled fibre but has a bit of plastic in it? Yes, I'm looking at an obturator now - it's holding the powder in until I get around to chucking it away. I opened up a couple of different shot sized loads as it was a first time (for a while) purchase to check the shot quality/size - which just happened to be top notch which wasn't really a surprise. Rottweil Special 12F. It's got "felt wad" on the box if anyone from the estate wanted to check. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hamster Posted July 20, 2014 Report Share Posted July 20, 2014 I've seen the odd plastic disc on the ground both clay and field shooting, my botherometer didn't even register. It would be interesting if those who use fibre/felt cartridges were to open one up and see because I have certainly seen adverts for such wad combinations; yes it is litter strictly speaking but you'd need to ignore the tiny matter of the kilo or two of lead that you'll be scattering around as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sitsinhedges Posted July 20, 2014 Report Share Posted July 20, 2014 Here's a Lyalvale Special 20 Fibre, 28 gram 6 with a plastic obturator clearly showing under the fibre wad. Get over it Laydees What a waste of a perfectly good cartridge Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
propercartridges Posted July 20, 2014 Author Report Share Posted July 20, 2014 hi all going to make cartrs so I cant be long . the ones I am making the man who ordered them knows the score as per my opening line on the foram hence what I am going to do !! ok to a mixture of answers I don't want to mention names but there is a popular one from Italy 35 gram in yellow case and it says fibre on the case not a dicky bird on the mention of plastic so if they can do it can I ? as once again people ask me to make similar after testing!!! also I do believe one firm from uk puts them in 20 bore 0n 32 gram load but to be fair I don't know how they describe them!!! as regards shot sizes it has definatley come to my attention that most people don't know what shot they r shooting especialy on imported brands so they say hey George these 5 s kill well and I say yes but they r 2.9mm look it says on the box to my reckoning that's 4.5 four and a half then they say oooh I don't want them so I say well that's what you r shooting so on the continentals or other imports its absolutely clear to me that most people don't know what they r buying or shooting have to go thank you george Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Floating Chamber Posted July 20, 2014 Report Share Posted July 20, 2014 I have to laugh..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest stevo Posted July 20, 2014 Report Share Posted July 20, 2014 (edited) I have to laugh..... Do you Game shoot ? as in pay to shoot game ? regards stevo Edited July 20, 2014 by stevo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old farrier Posted July 20, 2014 Report Share Posted July 20, 2014 Just picked up this one All the best Of Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dodeer Posted July 20, 2014 Report Share Posted July 20, 2014 Express 20bores used to/still do mark the box as fibre wad with plastic disk. Others I can think of :- Nobel OK game Viri. 30 game Most others seem to use a fibre wad and have a hard card disk under that. Personally I'd want a true fibre wad, but a proper biodegradable plastic would be ok to- the Armusa wad looks very tempting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest stevo Posted July 20, 2014 Report Share Posted July 20, 2014 first off , please excuse me for what could very well be a stupid question , as I really don't know much at all about reloading shotgun cartridges , I have only done Full-bore . but does it seem to be more the case with the obturators in the 20 gauge ? , would it be anything to-do with needing more pressure ?? like I say im just clutching at straws on the subject , so its really a question for you re-loaders . The ONLY real issue I would have is , if I pay £250 -£300 for a 100 bird day somewhere , is for the shoot captain / keeper to pull me for leaving plastic discs all over the place , that could really ruin a day . however I know the cartridges I used are true fibre , so I suppose its more a case of it happening to Joe Bloggs . I know this subject probably bores the back side off you experienced re-loaders , but just humour a pain in the A55 regards stevo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbrowning2 Posted July 20, 2014 Report Share Posted July 20, 2014 Interesting? propercartridges I would think this is one for your legal experts and the Trading Standards. Just because other manufactures are putting plastic in a cartridge sold as fibre and getting away with it does not make it legally correct. I would expect NO plastic in a "fibre" cartridge regardless of the technical reasons behind it (better ballistics less powder etc). The small plastic disc may be more of a problem for sheap/cattle then a large plastic wad again expert advice needed Vet? Home loading no problem you know what you are making/getting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Floating Chamber Posted July 20, 2014 Report Share Posted July 20, 2014 Just picked up this one All the best Of In my book, that 'wad' in the photo appears to be the obturating skirt from a plastic wad; VP05 springs to mind. It could have been sheared off by farm machinery, or, the old reloaders trick of cutting off the bottom of a fired plastic wad and using it under a fibre wad. I doubt whether it is a factory component as it is not 'double sided'. It would not 'feed' on a commercial loading machine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest cookoff013 Posted July 20, 2014 Report Share Posted July 20, 2014 That looks like a VP was obturator. The plastic for them is reputed to be poor. See how the pressure beat up the central section where the compression sec. Is attached. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Floating Chamber Posted July 20, 2014 Report Share Posted July 20, 2014 See how this array of gas seals are 'double sided' to facilitate any way up feeding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old farrier Posted July 20, 2014 Report Share Posted July 20, 2014 I see what your saying And with your knowlage and expertise I stand corrected Couple of questions Are they plastic And Would you expect to find them in a fibre cartridge All the best Of Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hamster Posted July 20, 2014 Report Share Posted July 20, 2014 I expect only chicken when I buy chicken but they're allowed to pump it up with animal proteins and a certain amount of water too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sitsinhedges Posted July 20, 2014 Report Share Posted July 20, 2014 The fact of the matter is that using an obturator to drive the fibre wad does not result in mountains of choked dead livestock. It's never even a question around these parts unless anal pigeon shooters make it one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest stevo Posted July 20, 2014 Report Share Posted July 20, 2014 The fact of the matter is that using an obturator to drive the fibre wad does not result in mountains of choked dead livestock. It's never even a question around these parts unless anal pigeon shooters make it one. I 100% totally agree . Its the game shoot mentality I spose . However from my point of view . And anyone/most that pay to shoot game there are strict rules and have no choice but to abide by these rules . We have NO say in it . Its a mad mad world . Buts its the way it is . But more importantly why do they put them in . Instead of the paper ones ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sitsinhedges Posted July 20, 2014 Report Share Posted July 20, 2014 I 100% totally agree . Its the game shoot mentality I spose . However from my point of view . And anyone/most that pay to shoot game there are strict rules and have no choice but to abide by these rules . We have NO say in it . Its a mad mad world . Buts its the way it is . But more importantly why do they put them in . Instead of the paper ones ? Better performance I believe. A fibre wad with a thick card wad driving it relies on the fibre wad compressing and sealing against the barrel wall to seal it, a lot of gas pressure might be lost up the sides. An obturator has a plastic skirt that will expand underneath the fibre wad and make a superior seal against the barrel wall meaning less powder. Would over bored guns also benefit from the use of obturators for the same reason??? I know I like to reload using them anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest stevo Posted July 20, 2014 Report Share Posted July 20, 2014 (edited) Better performance I believe. A fibre wad with a thick card wad driving it relies on the fibre wad compressing and sealing against the barrel wall to seal it, a lot of gas pressure might be lost up the sides. An obturator has a plastic skirt that will expand underneath the fibre wad and make a superior seal against the barrel wall meaning less powder. Would over bored guns also benefit from the use of obturators for the same reason??? I know I like to reload using them anyway. Tell you summut mucker you have just hit on a fantastic point !! Right I have a A400 and that is over bored / back bored you name it lol . Anyway I have recently bought an old ( 1989 ) beretta 682 . And I have been saying to my shooting buddy . That there seems to be a MASSIVE difference in perceived hitting power with the 682 . Now in both guns I was using the same shell ( express power pigeon 29 grm #6 ) now I know for a fact they are a true felt . Also using same chokes . So I wonder IF that has something to do with it .as in the use of felt wads and over bored barrels ? Sorry im in danger of hijacking the thread . I will ask this in the appropriate place . Edited July 20, 2014 by stevo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbrowning2 Posted July 20, 2014 Report Share Posted July 20, 2014 Surely this is not about what is in the cartridge but about packaging information. So we the shooter (customer) know what we are buying and can then make an informed decision about what we buy and where we use them. If it states beef do you want horse meet? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
figgy Posted July 20, 2014 Report Share Posted July 20, 2014 (edited) Nearly all fibre wad carts have plastic on the disc, granted it's very thin and clear but it's still shiny plastic. So all the fibre only and nothing but people you best open a cart up and check the fibre disc for a plastic covering gas seal. Figgy Edited July 20, 2014 by figgy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phaedra1106 Posted July 20, 2014 Report Share Posted July 20, 2014 (edited) So all the fibre only and nothing but people you best open a cart up and check the fibre disc for a plastic covering gas seal. Eley First Fibre, no plastic at all. Hull Comp-X Fibre have a very thin "seal" stuck on on the top and bottom of the wad, appears to be coated paper but may be plastic. Edited July 20, 2014 by phaedra1106 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbrowning2 Posted July 20, 2014 Report Share Posted July 20, 2014 (edited) To quote from first posting on this plastic = 6.5mm or card = 4mm I would say 6.5mm is not thin compared to 4mm All that is need is for the manufacture to be honest and tell us when they are using a plastic disc is that so difficult? But I would not expect a product sold as fibre wad to contain any plastic without such information on the packaging. Figgy I have just cut open an eley 12ga first fibre and express 12ga english sporter fibre and no plastic disc in them so will continue buying them. Without correct labeling trading standards I hope would agree otherwise where do you draw the line? Is it ok to put a few grams of lead shot in a non-toxic because it gives better performance? Edited July 20, 2014 by rbrowning2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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