A low shooting Browning?

[Big Al]

Since I bought it in January, my pride and joy has been my Grade 5 Browning B525. I also own a Grade 1 B525 that I use for fowling and rough shooting. I have never shot quite as well with the grade 5 and have figured out I am shooting under targets.

Each looks the same to me with the gun mounted, if anything, the grade 5 stock seems slightly higher, yet I seem to be shooting low with it.

 

I was wondering if it is just me, or has anyone else ever encountered a low shooting Browning.

 

I should also say that I have been back to the dealer and he has suggested (sensibly) to try the grade 1 stock on the grade 5 - he even offered to come up to the pattern plate with me to help. Fair play.

 

I will be doing this but wondered if any of you have heard of anything like it before.

[The Mighty Prawn]

Gun mount, gun fit, pattern plate - that would be my suggested order of investigation, a small difference in stock measurements might not be visible to the naked eye but could make a difference to POI

 

Alternatively as it's a grade 5 are you lifting your head to admire the wood?

[Hamster]

Since I bought it in January, my pride and joy has been my Grade 5 Browning B525. I also own a Grade 1 B525 that I use for fowling and rough shooting. I have never shot quite as well with the grade 5 and have figured out I am shooting under targets.

Each looks the same to me with the gun mounted, if anything, the grade 5 stock seems slightly higher, yet I seem to be shooting low with it.

 

I was wondering if it is just me, or has anyone else ever encountered a low shooting Browning.

 

I should also say that I have been back to the dealer and he has suggested (sensibly) to try the grade 1 stock on the grade 5 - he even offered to come up to the pattern plate with me to help. Fair play.

 

I will be doing this but wondered if any of you have heard of anything like it before.

 

You say you've figured out you're shooting under the targets, how confident are you that is actually the case if you have not as yet patterned the gun (s) ?

 

Worth bearing in mind you probably wear more robust clothes when fowling and that you simply fire fewer shots so any misses are more easily forgotten. Guns shooting low are relatively common and certainly not a Browning thing but if after patterning, you find one or both fire low then you really need a competent gunsmith to advise a remedy.

Edited September 4, 2014 by Hamster

[muffin]

put them on a flat surface table trigger guard up you will see if different comb height and length keep triggers in same place

[Big Al]

 

You say you've figured out you're shooting under the targets, how confident are you that is actually the case if you have not as yet patterned the gun (s) ?

 

I regularly shoot with a neighbour who is an rfd and shooting coach. He told me that I am missing below. When I started blotting out the clay instead of balancing it on top of the rib I started hitting again. It isn't a great shooting technique though, especially for live quarry.

 

I am not aware of any difference in how I mount both guns. Hopefully an hour on the pattern plate using both stocks on the same gun (not at the same time though!) will tell a tale.

 

Thanks for the replies.

[Big Al]

 

Alternatively as it's a grade 5 are you lifting your head to admire the wood?

That is a possibility but that would make me miss high surely!!

[Hamster]

I regularly shoot with a neighbour who is an rfd and shooting coach. He told me that I am missing below. When I started blotting out the clay instead of balancing it on top of the rib I started hitting again. It isn't a great shooting technique though, especially for live quarry.

 

I am not aware of any difference in how I mount both guns. Hopefully an hour on the pattern plate using both stocks on the same gun (not at the same time though!) will tell a tale.

 

Thanks for the replies.

 

I'm not a shooting coach but experienced enough to know that balancing clays on the rib is poor technique regardless of POI issues. By blotting the clays out your whole tempo would have been different so that in itself proves very little, let us know what the pattern boards says.

[Big Al]

 

I'm not a shooting coach but experienced enough to know that balancing clays on the rib is poor technique regardless of POI issues. By blotting the clays out your whole tempo would have been different so that in itself proves very little, let us know what the pattern boards says.

Will do.

 

Am interested also to know why seeing the clay just above the rib is poor technique. I was shooting stand 1 skeet at the time. Should I see something else? I am not aware of the common "sight picture" used by more regular clay shooters - should I be seeing something else?

 

I'm wondering if it's gunfit!

[Hamster]

Will do.

 

Am interested also to know why seeing the clay just above the rib is poor technique. I was shooting stand 1 skeet at the time. Should I see something else? I am not aware of the common "sight picture" used by more regular clay shooters - should I be seeing something else?

 

I'm wondering if it's gunfit!

 

Gun fit is important but not as critical as some suggest, technique and knowledge counts for more hence why a good clay shooter can pick up just about anyone else's gun and within a few shots hit targets that the owner may struggle with.

 

The trouble with trying to ride clays on the rib is that it robs you of fluidity and can easily lead to erratic swing or stopping the gun. Everything has a sweet spot, getting hung up on seeing a clay floating on the rib can slow you down on some targets that are best shot earlier.

 

PS. I don't shoot Skeet but if I recall correctly the experts recommend coming up to the high house bird from below rather than riding it, it's how you'd shoot a similar clay in ESP, the low house incomer would most definitely need blotting out, rib watching would be a miss behind.

Edited September 4, 2014 by Hamster

[Big Al]

Thanks Hamster. Like many, I am a self-taught shooter who enjoys reasonable success in the field. Presented with clay layouts and more predictable targets my lack of technique and reliance on instinct shows up flaws.

I appreciate your replies.

[deershooter]

Buy a kick easy comb raiser £14 will be the most expensive bit of eather foam you can buy but it works

 

Deershooter

[welshwarrior]

Big Al

 

First things first measure the guns so you know if the dimensions are the same don't just look at them. If you don't know how PM me and we can organise me talking you through it on the phone.

 

Once you know the start point then advice can be given until that point we are all guessing.

 

Hamster makes some good points but I disagree gun fit is very very important to achieve consistent results especial when shoot 2 very similar guns. Technique is vital to.

 

Yes with knowledge you can shoot a poorly fitting gun better, but Lewis Hilton could drive my Nova faster around a track than me but that doesn't make it a good car for him. At the end of the day that's why lots of the serious shooter back up guns are built to match their main gun Digweed uses the spare to decoy pigeon not an old Lanber surely he could make do.

[dashman1]

Hamster makes the best points totally agree atb

[dougall]

Big Al

 

First things first measure the guns so you know if the dimensions are the same don't just look at them. If you don't know how PM me and we can organise me talking you through it on the phone.

 

Once you know the start point then advice can be given until that point we are all guessing.

 

Hamster makes some good points but I disagree gun fit is very very important to achieve consistent results especial when shoot 2 very similar guns. Technique is vital to.

 

Yes with knowledge you can shoot a poorly fitting gun better, but Lewis Hilton could drive my Nova faster around a track than me but that doesn't make it a good car for him. At the end of the day that's why lots of the serious shooter back up guns are built to match their main gun Digweed uses the spare to decoy pigeon not an old Lanber surely he could make do.

Does Lewis Hilton know Lewis Hamilton?

[welshwarrior]

Yes and I hate auto incorrect on my phone

[Big Al]

Thanks for the kind offer Welshwarrior - I'm going to cut out the guesswork and take it to professionals this side of the Irish Sea.

 

I suppose I always knew that the problem was either with the wood, or the with the lump of wood behind the lump of wood (me).

 

I have heard of guns when the problem was in the metalwork when the barrels didn't shoot where they were pointing - although they were cheaper makes than Browning. My original post was wondering if any such metalwork problems were heard of with Brownings.

 

It is probably the wood in my case - either or the grade 5 timber. Time to stop speculating a go see an expert.

[clayman]

The problem is symptomatic of the comb being too low, or and/or head burying.

 

The pupil of the eye should be 3mm high ( the thickness of a £1-00 coin, standard check, a coin on the rib should not block your view of the bead).

 

Guns should be set to shoot high, 2/3rd of the pattern above the bead so that the target is in sight and not blotted by the gun, and high enough that the target is not "aimed at" through the bead ( that creates gun stopping / slowing if the shooter focuses back to the bead).

 

An eye position too low always causes a host of problems, while one too high only makes the gun shoot a little higher, and its very little.

 

At 30meters, an eye a whole 5mm high still only puts the pattern 15cm, or 6" higher.

 

Use a rubber saddle comb raiser, or a Neoprene sleeve system to see what difference raising the comb makes, or just mounting higher in the shoulder so the head is not dropped to the comb can make all the difference. The gun should fit to you, so if the habit is to place in the shoulder first, then drop the head to the comb, you are fitting yourself to the gun. Ideally, if the gun fit is correct and your mount technique is also correct, the gun perfectly engages a correct eye-line as it hits the shoulder and cheek without any head movement.

 

Try differing temporary comb heights, and check results onto a pattern plate.

 

If a comb raise is needed, and you don't want rubber / sleeve etc hiding nice wood, consider having the wood cut to take an adjustable comb. Bates of Doveridge and some other stockists can convert your stock to vari-comb using the existing wood.

Edited September 8, 2014 by clayman

[joe soapy]

If both guns are identical apart from grade, could the cheaper one have a nice straight grain allowing a degree of flex when fired,

the grade5 probably has a dense confused grain that allows no flex

[chacotawas]

The problem is symptomatic of the comb being too low, or and/or head burying.

 

The pupil of the eye should be 3mm high ( the thickness of a £1-00 coin, standard check, a coin on the rib should not block your view of the bead).

 

Guns should be set to shoot high, 2/3rd of the pattern above the bead so that the target is in sight and not blotted by the gun, and high enough that the target is not "aimed at" through the bead ( that creates gun stopping / slowing if the shooter focuses back to the bead).

 

An eye position too low always causes a host of problems, while one too high only makes the gun shoot a little higher, and its very little.

 

At 30meters, an eye a whole 5mm high still only puts the pattern 15cm, or 6" higher.

 

Use a rubber saddle comb raiser, or a Neoprene sleeve system to see what difference raising the comb makes, or just mounting higher in the shoulder so the head is not dropped to the comb can make all the difference. The gun should fit to you, so if the habit is to place in the shoulder first, then drop the head to the comb, you are fitting yourself to the gun. Ideally, if the gun fit is correct and your mount technique is also correct, the gun perfectly engages a correct eye-line as it hits the shoulder and cheek without any head movement.

 

Try differing temporary comb heights, and check results onto a pattern plate.

 

If a comb raise is needed, and you don't want rubber / sleeve etc hiding nice wood, consider having the wood cut to take an adjustable comb. Bates of Doveridge and some other stockists can convert your stock to vari-comb using the existing wood.

Thanks for this valuable info.and instruction. Wish somebody had told me that a long time ago, or even my instructor recently. Good thread, Al. Hope you get sorted.

[Dangerzone]

If both guns are identical apart from grade, could the cheaper one have a nice straight grain allowing a degree of flex when fired,

the grade5 probably has a dense confused grain that allows no flex

No.

[chesterse]

Have a look to see if the pitch ie the angle of the recoil pad is the same to the horizontal line of the rib on both guns.

If you try a kick eez comb raiser be warned they are very difficult to get off.

[Big Al]

Thanks for all the replies.

 

Update - I spoke to the RFD I bought the gun from last year. He tells me I have 2 options ( as I dont want to stick a pad on the gd 5 wood.)

Firstly I could get a custom stock made. Hmmmm.

Secondly, get an adjustable comb fitted although he went on to say that getting any work done to a grade 5 stock (including an adjustable comb) would decimate the resale value of the gun as the stock would be rendered worthless. To be honest I am having trouble believing that.

 

I have no desire to sell the gun but also dont want to wipe out the money I have spent on it. I think I need to see the stocker, but that means a 3 hour journey each way. Ho hum.

[Shooterluke]

I stand corrected but i thought that a gun with an adjustable gun will have a better resale value also be more appealing to a buyer (like i said i stand corrected )

Sorry (comb)

[shaun4860]

An adjustable comb fitted properly will have no detrimental affect on the guns value, it may help resale in fact

 

Go on gun trader and have a look at the Browning Ultra XS Prestiges,

 

[Big Al]

An adjustable comb fitted properly will have no detrimental affect on the guns value, it may help resale in fact

 

Go on gun trader and have a look at the Browning Ultra XS Prestiges,

 

Is the same true of a game gun?