Davyo Posted December 21, 2014 Report Share Posted December 21, 2014 If we don't stick together none of us will be shooting in the future. Each to their own, they all have a role to play in country life. I do support shooting but something's in the countryside Simply dislike ie driven game.Getting away from shooting but for example Fox Hunting,why? Chase a fox around all day with a pack of hounds and back fill its den so it has no where to go,what's wrong with a single clean shot from a competent marksman,job done problem fox dealt with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted December 21, 2014 Report Share Posted December 21, 2014 How is it unfair? A bit like saying it is unfair that a fox has evolved teeth to hunt its prey. Humans evolved a brain and, uniquely, were able to manufacture and use tools - such as a gun to hunt with. How is it unfair? Ask Davyo, he seems to think driven shooting is unfair. I was merely pointing out that the quarry doesn't stand a chance when faced with modern shooting equipment. People seem to get themselves all worked up between fair and sporting. Personally I don't regard anything to do with killing for entertainment as sport or sporting, nor do I consider a sporting shot as being fair; it's just a shot. The entire point of shooting a creature is to kill it, not to give it a 'fair' or 'sporting' chance. Firearms were developed for the sole intention of killing, and so called 'sporting' firearms and the projectiles developed for them, and in particular shot, were developed to give the shooter every conceivable chance of killing his quarry, and not to give that quarry a 'sporting' or 'fair' chance. If the quarry escapes it isn't because we gave it a fair chance, it's because we missed. I don't regard any shots I take as fair, unfair, sporting or unsporting; if I do my part properly the quarry doesn't stand a chance. I don't shoot deer, foxes or rabbits from as far away as possible to give them a 'fair' or 'sporting' chance, I get as close as possible to ensure I don't miss. I will shoot rabbits, pigeons, crows etc at all ranges within range, but wont shoot quarry I wish to eat with a shotgun at very close ranges with a shotgun not because I consider it unsporting or unfair, but because it will render the quarry inedible. If it weren't illegal I would suggest that if anyone wants to give their quarry a fair chance, take a bow and arrow out hunting and see how close you need to get to ensure a clean, humane kill. There's a 'fair' chance your quarry would be gone before you got within that range. We deploy all manner of fieldcraft and equipment to get our quarry within range not so we can give it a 'sporting' or 'fair' chance, but rather so we can kill it; such as camouflage and decoys, calls, telescopic sights, thermal imaging and night vision, the firearms we use and the metal projectiles we fire from them which travel at supersonic speeds and which are designed to transfer as much terminal damage to that quarry on contact. My apologies for the ramble but I am constantly amazed at people like Davyo who can justify their own reasons for killing something for entertainment, but criticise others for doing the same to the extent they wouldn't mind if it were banned. I'm not a big fan of hunting foxes with hounds but couldn't support a ban while I'm killing for no other reason than I enjoy shooting too much to stop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bostonmick Posted December 21, 2014 Report Share Posted December 21, 2014 (edited) I do support shooting but something's in the countryside Simply dislike ie driven game.Getting away from shooting but for example Fox Hunting,why? Chase a fox around all day with a pack of hounds and back fill its den so it has no where to go,what's wrong with a single clean shot from a competent marksman,job done problem fox dealt with. Spoken like a true townie.you obviously do not live in or earn your living from the countryside. You can't expect to cherry pick the bits you want. it's okay for you to shoot pigeon but not for the farms to create revenue from game shooting.it's not all multi millionaires driving 100k motors in the countryside you know. It is a hard and in most cases an unrewarding life for the vast majority.if you are offended by the ways of the country people then I can only really offer the advice of stay away from it. Edited December 21, 2014 by bostonmick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davyo Posted December 21, 2014 Report Share Posted December 21, 2014 (edited) Why do you always turn things into an argument,it's an opinion,my opinion that's all ,If shooting was banned tomorrow I couldn't give a flying ****,there's more to life than shooting.I do enjoy shooting but I don't shoot just for shooting sake for example we have 2 farms,one of which has no livestock so Charlie could be sat 20 ft in front of me he won't get shot,but if he is plodding along on the other farm he's going to get taken out.Every rabbit / pigeon I shoot gets used,whether they go to the butchers or given to the pensioners if I had no reason other than just kill then I wouldn't do it. Good idea,all townies stay away from the countryside ,that's the countryside throw into poverty considering all what keeps these shoots ticking over is townies. Edited December 21, 2014 by Davyo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bostonmick Posted December 21, 2014 Report Share Posted December 21, 2014 Why do you always turn things into an argument,it's an opinion,my opinion that's all ,If shooting was banned tomorrow I couldn't give a flying ****,there's more to life than shooting.I do enjoy shooting but I don't shoot just for shooting sake for example we have 2 farms,one of which has no livestock so Charlie could be sat 20 ft in front of me he won't get shot,but if he is plodding along on the other farm he's going to get taken out.Every rabbit / pigeon I shoot gets used,whether they go to the butchers or given to the pensioners if I had no reason other than just kill then I wouldn't do it. There you are.you see to those who earn their living from the countryside it is a big thing.we can't all just turn up at the factory or office and get paid by someone regardless.I am not turning anything into an argument but I do not like our/my way of life being criticised by those who do not live it.over the years I have probably lost around two thousand hens to the fox.so in my book all foxes should be eliminated.just because one of your perms has no livestock on it does not mean the foxes there should be left.they do not just stay in one place you know.if you are given permission to clear pests from a farm then do it properly the fox is a pest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davyo Posted December 21, 2014 Report Share Posted December 21, 2014 There you are.you see to those who earn their living from the countryside it is a big thing.we can't all just turn up at the factory or office and get paid by someone regardless.I am not turning anything into an argument but I do not like our/my way of life being criticised by those who do not live it.over the years I have probably lost around two thousand hens to the fox.so in my book all foxes should be eliminated.just because one of your perms has no livestock on it does not mean the foxes there should be left.they do not just stay in one place you know.if you are given permission to clear pests from a farm then do it properly the fox is a pest. I haven't got permission from the farmer on said farm,his other farm permission is granted simples. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blunderbuss Posted December 21, 2014 Report Share Posted December 21, 2014 I'm not talking about stupid pheasants.I wouldn't want pigeon shooting,rabbit shooting banned,pheasants they could ban tomorrow. A staggering, unbelievable post to read on pigeon watch, of all places. I'm sure PETA or LACS have a forum more to your sensitivities. I absolutely ******* despair :( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bitfitter Posted December 22, 2014 Report Share Posted December 22, 2014 Anyone who thinks there is no fieldcraft involved in driven shooting is more than welcome to spend a day with me it is my ability as a keeper to encourage,hold and ultimately drive the birds be they wild or reared over carefully considered drives/pegs whilst it's true the guns need not consider the work involved it would be crass and down right insulting to suggest that keepers do not play the ultimate game of fieldcraft it is after all our ability to manipulate nature that ensures our success. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stumfelter Posted December 22, 2014 Report Share Posted December 22, 2014 Anyone who thinks there is no fieldcraft involved in driven shooting is more than welcome to spend a day with me it is my ability as a keeper to encourage,hold and ultimately drive the birds be they wild or reared over carefully considered drives/pegs whilst it's true the guns need not consider the work involved it would be crass and down right insulting to suggest that keepers do not play the ultimate game of fieldcraft it is after all our ability to manipulate nature that ensures our success. Absolutely right- anyone that thinks that pheasants are stupid have obviously never seen birds sneaking out of a drive at the slightest chance-only fieldcraft and knowledge of your ground can stop a good drive turning into a whitewash. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grrclark Posted December 22, 2014 Report Share Posted December 22, 2014 People seem to get themselves all worked up between fair and sporting. Personally I don't regard anything to do with killing for entertainment as sport or sporting, nor do I consider a sporting shot as being fair; it's just a shot. The entire point of shooting a creature is to kill it, not to give it a 'fair' or 'sporting' chance. Firearms were developed for the sole intention of killing, and so called 'sporting' firearms and the projectiles developed for them, and in particular shot, were developed to give the shooter every conceivable chance of killing his quarry, and not to give that quarry a 'sporting' or 'fair' chance. If the quarry escapes it isn't because we gave it a fair chance, it's because we missed. I don't regard any shots I take as fair, unfair, sporting or unsporting; if I do my part properly the quarry doesn't stand a chance. I don't shoot deer, foxes or rabbits from as far away as possible to give them a 'fair' or 'sporting' chance, I get as close as possible to ensure I don't miss. I will shoot rabbits, pigeons, crows etc at all ranges within range, but wont shoot quarry I wish to eat with a shotgun at very close ranges with a shotgun not because I consider it unsporting or unfair, but because it will render the quarry inedible. If it weren't illegal I would suggest that if anyone wants to give their quarry a fair chance, take a bow and arrow out hunting and see how close you need to get to ensure a clean, humane kill. There's a 'fair' chance your quarry would be gone before you got within that range. We deploy all manner of fieldcraft and equipment to get our quarry within range not so we can give it a 'sporting' or 'fair' chance, but rather so we can kill it; such as camouflage and decoys, calls, telescopic sights, thermal imaging and night vision, the firearms we use and the metal projectiles we fire from them which travel at supersonic speeds and which are designed to transfer as much terminal damage to that quarry on contact. A good reasoned post Scully. Well said. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penelope Posted December 22, 2014 Report Share Posted December 22, 2014 Well written. How is it unfair? Ask Davyo, he seems to think driven shooting is unfair. I was merely pointing out that the quarry doesn't stand a chance when faced with modern shooting equipment. People seem to get themselves all worked up between fair and sporting. Personally I don't regard anything to do with killing for entertainment as sport or sporting, nor do I consider a sporting shot as being fair; it's just a shot. The entire point of shooting a creature is to kill it, not to give it a 'fair' or 'sporting' chance. Firearms were developed for the sole intention of killing, and so called 'sporting' firearms and the projectiles developed for them, and in particular shot, were developed to give the shooter every conceivable chance of killing his quarry, and not to give that quarry a 'sporting' or 'fair' chance. If the quarry escapes it isn't because we gave it a fair chance, it's because we missed. I don't regard any shots I take as fair, unfair, sporting or unsporting; if I do my part properly the quarry doesn't stand a chance. I don't shoot deer, foxes or rabbits from as far away as possible to give them a 'fair' or 'sporting' chance, I get as close as possible to ensure I don't miss. I will shoot rabbits, pigeons, crows etc at all ranges within range, but wont shoot quarry I wish to eat with a shotgun at very close ranges with a shotgun not because I consider it unsporting or unfair, but because it will render the quarry inedible. If it weren't illegal I would suggest that if anyone wants to give their quarry a fair chance, take a bow and arrow out hunting and see how close you need to get to ensure a clean, humane kill. There's a 'fair' chance your quarry would be gone before you got within that range. We deploy all manner of fieldcraft and equipment to get our quarry within range not so we can give it a 'sporting' or 'fair' chance, but rather so we can kill it; such as camouflage and decoys, calls, telescopic sights, thermal imaging and night vision, the firearms we use and the metal projectiles we fire from them which travel at supersonic speeds and which are designed to transfer as much terminal damage to that quarry on contact. My apologies for the ramble but I am constantly amazed at people like Davyo who can justify their own reasons for killing something for entertainment, but criticise others for doing the same to the extent they wouldn't mind if it were banned. I'm not a big fan of hunting foxes with hounds but couldn't support a ban while I'm killing for no other reason than I enjoy shooting too much to stop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted December 22, 2014 Report Share Posted December 22, 2014 Anyone who thinks there is no fieldcraft involved in driven shooting is more than welcome to spend a day with me it is my ability as a keeper to encourage,hold and ultimately drive the birds be they wild or reared over carefully considered drives/pegs whilst it's true the guns need not consider the work involved it would be crass and down right insulting to suggest that keepers do not play the ultimate game of fieldcraft it is after all our ability to manipulate nature that ensures our success. Fair point, and one which I overlooked. My apologies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted December 22, 2014 Report Share Posted December 22, 2014 Anyone who thinks there is no fieldcraft involved in driven shooting is more than welcome to spend a day with me it is my ability as a keeper to encourage,hold and ultimately drive the birds be they wild or reared over carefully considered drives/pegs whilst it's true the guns need not consider the work involved it would be crass and down right insulting to suggest that keepers do not play the ultimate game of fieldcraft it is after all our ability to manipulate nature that ensures our success. I read it that Scully was only referring to the Guns Absolutely right- anyone that thinks that pheasants are stupid have obviously never seen birds sneaking out of a drive at the slightest chance So are you saying that they're intelligent? Isn't it simply instinct to move away from any disturbance. Disappearing from the face of the earth on October 1 and coming back out to play on February 2, now that's intelligence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bitfitter Posted December 22, 2014 Report Share Posted December 22, 2014 Fair point, and one which I overlooked. My apologies. It is I who should apologise if my post appears to be aimed at you that was far from my intention I should have quoted Davyo's post where he questions the field craft involved in driven game shooting Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted December 22, 2014 Report Share Posted December 22, 2014 I read it that Scully was only referring to the Guns Thanks Wymberley; I was actually, but didn't want Bitfitter to think I was belittling his work in any way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
double10 Posted December 22, 2014 Report Share Posted December 22, 2014 60 yes 40 no now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big bad lindz Posted December 22, 2014 Report Share Posted December 22, 2014 Its so easy to drift away from the original post. Here we are ripping each other apart about game shooting where nearly all the birds are raised. Just like we raise & manage pigs, wild boar, deer, chickens, cows, horse etc. all to go into our ever increasing world demand for food. Different countries and ethnic groups have different opinions as to what is raised, wild and what is "fair game" I, and I am sure many others on PW condemn the hunting and killing of endangered species on land, sea & air but I think knocking bits out each other by some of the comments being passed can only add fuel the anti gun lobby. Please remember that this is a public forum. PS don't forget to vote (more than once if you want to) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M4X Posted December 23, 2014 Report Share Posted December 23, 2014 Its so easy to drift away from the original post. Here we are ripping each other apart about game shooting where nearly all the birds are raised. Just like we raise & manage pigs, wild boar, deer, chickens, cows, horse etc. all to go into our ever increasing world demand for food. Different countries and ethnic groups have different opinions as to what is raised, wild and what is "fair game" I, and I am sure many others on PW condemn the hunting and killing of endangered species on land, sea & air but I think knocking bits out each other by some of the comments being passed can only add fuel the anti gun lobby. Please remember that this is a public forum. PS don't forget to vote (more than once if you want to) Well said Big Lad! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norfolk dumpling Posted December 26, 2014 Report Share Posted December 26, 2014 Just slightly off topic one aspect of driven shooting which annoys me is the guns who turn up on a big driven day but haven't got a clue and bang away at birds which are unsporting but can't even hit those. Recently as flanker I ended up in front of a couple of young chaps who got through the best part of two boxes of shells for 4 birds picked. One of them was blasting away at low birds coming straight at him and it was quite obvious as I walked up towards him he was way way behind every bird. We pick the empties and there was quite a heap beside each peg including a couple of unfired shells! At the end of the day the kill rate was nearly 6:1. Why not pay for a couple of lessons? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaymo Posted December 26, 2014 Report Share Posted December 26, 2014 My wife just stated. "As a Townie I cant and wont interject into something that happens in the Country" Was happy for her reply as she does frown upon my activities sometimes....... Just wish that the same sort of view could be shared by all? I dont particularily like knitting but I wont call for a ban on it ( unless I get mittens for xmas again).... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OJW Posted December 26, 2014 Report Share Posted December 26, 2014 A staggering, unbelievable post to read on pigeon watch, of all places. I'm sure PETA or LACS have a forum more to your sensitivities. I absolutely ******* despair :( +100000 On topic - Yes, 60 , No 40 . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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